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Lenny Eiger
1-Aug-2015, 12:57
A couple of years back I purchased a 27 inch Eizo, CG275W. It came with a 5 Year Warranty. Don't believe it.

Last year, my monitor started to de-laminate. I contacted Eizo and they told me that everything but de-lamination was under warranty. They said it would take $200 to fix. I had to cover the shipping (with a new box, which they wouldn't sell me, I figure about $200, maybe $50 to get it back.) Loaner while its being repaired? Forget it.

I just bought a used monitor to use and was about to start getting it boxed up, then I re-read the email. It said $200 labor PLUS parts. Oh, wait, the parts are another $980. I am not paying $1200 to get this thing fixed, especially when it should be the company's responsibility under the warranty.

I like Macs, I'm going to wait until Apple puts out a nice 5K monitor with a reasonable color space (I don't care about full Adobe RGB, I look at the print anyway). I know it will likely be next year when the Skylake chips become more available. That way the software will get updated whenever Apple updates an OS, which Eizo didn't do well.

Regardless, I figured I'd pass this along. Buyer beware.

tuco
1-Aug-2015, 14:14
Sad thing about a CG275W on a Mac is that you don't get a full 10-bit color path to the monitor. While the userland software, video card and monitor support 10-bit color, Apple's driver for the graphics card does not.

Bruce Watson
1-Aug-2015, 14:50
That way the software will get updated whenever Apple updates an OS, which Eizo didn't do well.

I've been using NEC monitors (most with spectraview) for maybe 20 years now. The only one that gave me a problem was a 25 kg CRT monitor -- after about seven years, it got a little flaky so I had to slap it when it was cold. Even then it kept running for years until it finally got so old I couldn't calibrate it anymore. Maybe 10 years of service from it running it every day? Both my wife and I are using NEC 24" LCD panels now without problems, the youngest one is probably two years old.

The only reason I ever even considered EIZO was the hardware calibration, like NEC's spectraview. But at twice the price.

Sorry about your troubles Lenny. But thank you for helping me get over my EIZO envy. ;)

Oh, yes, I've never seen a software update from NEC. Get them all the time for the graphics card, but never for the monitor itself. That, I think, is a good thing.

richardman
1-Aug-2015, 15:24
I have been using my "tiny" CE240W for 7-8 years now. Still works great. When it dies, I probably will get the 270W and hope that I don't run into trouble. I like the color and B&W bit depth a lot.

Preston
1-Aug-2015, 16:44
Lenny, sorry to hear your tale of woe with Eizo. I hope you get it sorted out.

Bruce, you might want to check at NEC for a newer version of SpectraView. Usually, the updates deal with bug fixes and/or support for newer monitors.

Here's the link (http://www.necdisplay.com/support-and-services/spectra-view-ii) to the SpectraView download page.

I have two NEC monitors--an older 22 inch, and a year old 27 inch. I calibrate both SpectraView, and they have been excellent and reliable.

--P

Lenny Eiger
1-Aug-2015, 20:19
Sorry about your troubles Lenny. But thank you for helping me get over my EIZO envy. ;)

Well, I was venting, to be sure, but I am happy I could do this for you ;-)

I think there are a number of very good monitors out there. The Spectraview certainly comes to mind. I want an Apple because they work well with Apples. Hopefully the next one that Apple makes will be reasonably good. We'll see.

koh303
1-Aug-2015, 20:24
Diden't we already have this thread once a while back?
Lenny seems to be the only person on earth having this issue.
FWIW - a monitor used for 4 years has done its duty and once over.

There is nothing to compare to Eizo, thats why they have little advertising, charge a premium and have a massive market share in various industries where it matters. (IE not home users).

koh303
1-Aug-2015, 20:39
A couple of years back I purchased a 27 inch Eizo, CG275W. It came with a 5 Year Warranty. Don't believe it.

Last year, my monitor started to de-laminate. I contacted Eizo and they told me that everything but de-lamination was under warranty. They said it would take $200 to fix. I had to cover the shipping (with a new box, which they wouldn't sell me, I figure about $200, maybe $50 to get it back.) Loaner while its being repaired? Forget it.

I just bought a used monitor to use and was about to start getting it boxed up, then I re-read the email. It said $200 labor PLUS parts. Oh, wait, the parts are another $980. I am not paying $1200 to get this thing fixed, especially when it should be the company's responsibility under the warranty.

I like Macs, I'm going to wait until Apple puts out a nice 5K monitor with a reasonable color space (I don't care about full Adobe RGB, I look at the print anyway). I know it will likely be next year when the Skylake chips become more available. That way the software will get updated whenever Apple updates an OS, which Eizo didn't do well.

Regardless, I figured I'd pass this along. Buyer beware.

Here it is.
Seems that the numbers have changed some between dec 14 and now. Or did you buy another 27" Eizo with the same problem, and now got a new quote to fix it?

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?117902-Desperately-searching-for-quality-monitor&p=1188307&viewfull=1#post1188307

richardman
1-Aug-2015, 20:43
When I bought my Eizo, the store had the Apple Cinema Display 25" and the Eizo 24" side by side. At least at that time (7 - 8 years ago), the difference was quite apparent, especially for B&W. The Eizo displays a lot more gray shading. (I use Windoze)

Of course the 5K Mac Display is absolutely gorgeous. If I can afford it, I might buy an iMac just for that display....

richardman
1-Aug-2015, 21:22
I think data point as reported by Lenny is good - it makes us all be aware of the situation and we can make better decisions.

Gary Tarbert
2-Aug-2015, 04:52
I find the Eizo matches my print better than any other monitor i have ever owned , i have been lucky enough not to have failure within the warranty period or after for that matter . but a little concerned that the after sales service not matching the high profile of the brand .

Lenny Eiger
2-Aug-2015, 09:19
I find the Eizo matches my print better than any other monitor i have ever owned , i have been lucky enough not to have failure within the warranty period or after for that matter . but a little concerned that the after sales service not matching the high profile of the brand .

I think this says it all. There is no question that an Eizo monitor is a quality monitor. I think everyone else has gotten the picture, at least for Photography and Graphics, that a larger color space is desirable, etc. NEC, Asus, Dell and a few others have all increased the quality of their displays to match.

When a computer breaks, most of us can repair it fairly easily, or know someone who can. We know to back up our hard drives appropriately. We can get a new hard drive, some more ram, a new power supply (if one is on a PC), and stick it in the machine, or we can update to a new OS. Rarely does a machine fail totally.

OTOH, when a monitor begins to fail, there is nothing that can be done. One has to depend on a warranty to protect you. I was surprised that a company like Eizo, which does a lot in the medical fields as well, did not have a program for their customers to loan monitors during a replacement period. The customer service is like plenty of other companies where it is "if you don't like it, go buy something else". Everything is commoditized. However, it doesn't follow the commoditized model because its expensive.

My Eizo was only slightly better than the monitors from Apple, which cost $1K vs $3K. I am in the bracket that spending another $1K isn't great, but it won't hurt that much, whereas the $3K purchase is a quite bit more painful, requiring planning, maybe putting the purchase on a credit card, etc.

I would say that (at least for me) without the customer service it isn't worth it. I make all my own profiles, have all the equipment and software to do it right, etc. I have never felt that a monitor "matched" the prints. There is so much of one's mind involved in the conversion from what it looks like on the monitor vs what a print on paper looks like that profiling a monitor is more of an exercise in getting a clean gray background than anything else.

There appears to be an opportunity out there for a company to supply monitors to the photography industry where they actually back them up, and provide a good service.

koh303
2-Aug-2015, 09:56
I find the Eizo matches my print better than any other monitor i have ever owned , i have been lucky enough not to have failure within the warranty period or after for that matter . but a little concerned that the after sales service not matching the high profile of the brand .

Judging after sales service based on one user is not really a good way to make a good decision.

koh303
2-Aug-2015, 09:57
There appears to be an opportunity out there for a company to supply monitors to the photography industry where they actually back them up, and provide a good service.

Eizo and NEC already do that. You had ONE Eizo, and for some unknown reason had a problem close to the end of service warranty on your product. Does that mean that Eizo as a whole, and all its products will behave the same?

Lenny Eiger
2-Aug-2015, 11:22
Eizo and NEC already do that. You had ONE Eizo, and for some unknown reason had a problem close to the end of service warranty on your product. Does that mean that Eizo as a whole, and all its products will behave the same?

You seem to be intent on attacking me. Perhaps its the acerbic tone. I could be the only one that has ever experienced this issue, however, I doubt it. If that was the case, Eizo would likely have sent me a brand new monitor.

There were other things I didn't like about this monitor, the barely acceptable Mac support (driver updates and such), the lack of a camera. I also didn't find that it was a huge improvement over other monitors I've had in terms of matching to a print. Everyone's contention that it would take me less attempts to make that great print did not actually prove to be true. Thus, it isn't worth three times the price of other monitors.

I think that everyone who has an Eizo should enjoy it.

Taija71A
2-Aug-2015, 12:21
... Last year, my monitor started to de-laminate. I contacted Eizo and they told me that everything but de-lamination was under warranty...

That really s*cks! Very sorry to hear about your situation. :(

Lenny, do you have it on 'Written Authority'...
That everything but 'De-Lamination' is covered under warranty?

If perhaps not...
I would most 'assuredly' make Eizo provide you -- With this Documentation.
--
Unfortunately, when calling up companies these days...

People will say 'Anything and Absolutely Everything' -- Just in order to discourage you or be done with your problem. REALLY!!!

But, when you 'turn the tables' on them and ask them to provide Written Documentation for what they have just stated -- They usually cannot!
--
You of course, can (and now should)... Use this to your Advantage! :)

Just checking...

Best regards, -Tim.

Taija71A
2-Aug-2015, 12:27
Judging after sales service based on one user is not really a good way to make a good decision.

Eizo is actually...
Quite well known in the Industry -- For not 'honoring' their 5 Year Warranty. :(

Many years ago, when shopping for a 'High End' Monitor... I decided to choose a Monitor (from a different Manufacturer) -- For this exact very reason.

Lenny Eiger
2-Aug-2015, 13:06
Lenny, do you have it on 'Written Authority'...
That everything but 'De-Lamination' is covered under warranty?

I think I purchased this in 2012, exactly 3 years ago... The monitor was nearing 10,000 hours, when I reported the issue. I just leave it on all the time, might rethink that in the future. The tech guy checked with his "manager", who wouldn't budge. So now they get some not so positive press, which is what they deserve, IMO. Same with every other company that doesn't treat the large format forum members right...

The LCD panel is the part that is only covered for 3 years, or 10,000 hours. That's 417 days, or 1.1 years, if you leave it on all the time.

At this point, it's past the hours mark, so there's nothing I can do... I appreciate everyone's effort to try and help.

I wish Apple would get their act together and put out a monitor like the one for the iMac 27inch that is standalone... I know there's issues with the graphics cards required to drive it, but even if it wasn't 5K, but had a halfway decent color space, that would suffice...

For those of you who scan with me, if I miss a spot in the upper center, I apologize.

I think that most computers have about a 3 year life, now its monitors, too. I guess I should just get over it...


Lenny




Here you go:

The period of this Warranty is five (5) years from the date of purchase of the Product subject to the usage time being less than or equal to 30,000 hours (hereinafter referred to as the “Warranty Period”), provided that the Warranty Period for the LCD panel is limited to three (3) years from the date of purchase of the Product. The brightness of the Product shall be warranted only if the Product has been used within the recommended brightness of described in the User's Manual and the Warranty Period for the brightness is limited to three (3) years from the date of purchase of the Product subject to the usage time being less than or equal to 10,000 hours. EIZO and Distributors shall bear no liability or obligation with regard to the Product in relation to the Original Purchaser or any third parties other than as provided under this Warranty.

snip

Notwithstanding any other provision of this Warranty, EIZO and Distributors shall have no obligation under this Warranty whatsoever in any of the cases as set forth below:
(a) Any defect of the Product caused by freight damage, modifi cation, alteration, abuse, misuse, accident, incorrect installation, disaster, faulty maintenance and/or improper repair by third party other than EIZO and Distributors;
(b) Any incompatibility of the Product due to possible technical innovations and/or regulations;
(c) Any deterioration of the sensor;
(d) Any deterioration of display performance caused by the deterioration of expendable parts such as the LCD panel and/or backlight, etc. (e.g. changes in brightness uniformity, changes in color, changes in color uniformity, defects in pixels including burnt pixels, etc.);
(e) Any deterioration of the Product caused by the use at higher brightness than the recommended brightness described in the User’s Manual;
(f) Any defect of the Product caused by external equipment;
(g) Any defect of the Product on which the original serial number has been altered or removed;
(h) Any normal deterioration of the product, particularly that of consumables, accessories, and/or attachments (e.g. buttons, rotating parts, cables, User’s Manual, etc.); and
(i) Any deformation, discoloration, and/or warp of the exterior of the product including that of the surface of the LCD panel.

koh303
2-Aug-2015, 13:10
You seem to be intent on attacking me. Perhaps its the acerbic tone. I could be the only one that has ever experienced this issue, however, I doubt it. If that was the case, Eizo would likely have sent me a brand new monitor.
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=ezio+delamination It looks like no one else has yet to post about this that i could find.


There were other things I didn't like about this monitor, the barely acceptable Mac support (driver updates and such), the lack of a camera. I also didn't find that it was a huge improvement over other monitors I've had in terms of matching to a print. Everyone's contention that it would take me less attempts to make that great print did not actually prove to be true. Thus, it isn't worth three times the price of other monitors.

I think that everyone who has an Eizo should enjoy it.

No camera in your high end graphic work monitor... whaaa???
I am sorry if this sounds like a personal comment (its not meant as one), but if one uses a mac (for whichever reason) buys a product with poor mac support, it cannot possibly be the manufacturers fault?

I have no stock with Eizo, and could care less if you or anyone else buys or likes them, but your single experience cannot be a measure of anything, other than that single experience. My short search just now revealed that people have a hard time returning refurbished or used monitors inside warranty for various reasons (none i have found yet are due to actual defects and all to do with user specs/expectations), which is still not good, but i am not sure it has anything to do with your OP (second time around).

koh303
2-Aug-2015, 13:10
Eizo is actually...
Quite well known in the Industry -- For not 'honoring' their 5 Year Warranty. :(

Many years ago,

How many years ago was this?

Taija71A
2-Aug-2015, 13:34
How many years ago was this?

IIRC... That was circa 2008.

After reading Lenny's latest post...
It does now sound like the 'current' situation has improved.
--

Re: Post #18.

>> Here you go... 10,000 hours on LCD Panel...

Thank-you for the updated information Lenny. Greatly appreciated!
Understood in full now.

Personally, *I* still think that Eizo... Should do something for you.
But then again... I guess 'That ship has already sailed'. :( :( :(

Regards, -Tim.

Lenny Eiger
2-Aug-2015, 14:26
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=ezio+delamination It looks like no one else has yet to post about this that i could find.
.... if one uses a mac (for whichever reason) buys a product with poor mac support, it cannot possibly be the manufacturers fault?

Well, you might have a little better luck if you searched of "Eizo" instead of "Ezio". I put in "Eizo monitor issue" and found a number of issues reported.

Regardless, I don't mean my single experience to be any more than that. I have not told anyone they shouldn't buy one, I am only reporting what happened to me, which I was upset about. I don't suggest that this happens to everyone (or will), or that it hasn't happened to anyone else. I do expect that when a company charges a lot more for the same thing that the customer service should be better. Maybe I shouldn't think that...

Since Mac represents a large percentage of the Graphics market, which includes Photography, I would imagine that a monitor targeted at this market ought to work well with my choice for editing.

I'd appreciate it if you stopped trying to prove what an ass I am. I just freaked out that the issue, which I originally reported back in December, was going to cost $1200 instead of $200, which I am not willing to pay; and now I am going to end up throwing out this monitor and buying a new one. I went to my favorite place to vent, a place where I feel a member of the community, where I have lots of friends and plenty of people who can relate, on one level or another.

koh303
2-Aug-2015, 14:36
Well, you might have a little better luck if you searched of "Eizo" instead of "Ezio". I put in "Eizo monitor issue" and found a number of issues reported.

Regardless, I don't mean my single experience to be any more than that. I have not told anyone they shouldn't buy one, I am only reporting what happened to me, which I was upset about. I don't suggest that this happens to everyone (or will), or that it hasn't happened to anyone else. I do expect that when a company charges a lot more for the same thing that the customer service should be better. Maybe I shouldn't think that...

Since Mac represents a large percentage of the Graphics market, which includes Photography, I would imagine that a monitor targeted at this market ought to work well with my choice for editing.

I'd appreciate it if you stopped trying to prove what an ass I am. I just freaked out that the issue, which I originally reported back in December, was going to cost $1200 instead of $200, which I am not willing to pay; and now I am going to end up throwing out this monitor and buying a new one. I went to my favorite place to vent, a place where I feel a member of the community, where I have lots of friends and plenty of people who can relate, on one level or another.

You are right, thats my mistake, though this search:
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=eizo%20delamination
Only brings up your comment, here from late 2014.

Lenny Eiger
2-Aug-2015, 14:55
You are right, thats my mistake, though this search:
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=eizo%20delamination
Only brings up your comment, here from late 2014.

You won't get much searching for delamination. Just definitions. If you follow that logic, you can assume it has never happened to any monitor ever. It happens a lot to LCD panels. If you search for "delamination lcd" or "eizo screen problems" you get a lot more references.

bob carnie
3-Aug-2015, 06:01
I bought a Lacie 526 years ago and can say I am really happy with the purchase, I also have two mac screens which serve me well.

I think that Eizo has a responsibility to give serious consideration to Lenny's problem.. When you say you leave the screen on all the time do you mean with a screen saver or just on? If just on
I can see their hesitation.

FWIW I am using the numbers to calculate my grey balance and I do not rely on the screens for colour balance issues, They all look pretty good in a darkened room , with good colour management
procedures my first print is basically matching, the different screens within a point or two which is then easily balanced to clients taste.
There is no replacing tone on paper vs image emitting through a monitor.

Gone are the RA4 test strips and maybe two or three corrections to get final balance. Now its one test and go .

Lenny I think you will be well served with a current mac monitor.

Kirk Gittings
3-Aug-2015, 07:02
I have seen bad Eizo monitors right out of the box with uneven illumination. Of course they replaced them-no problem at all.

I have been able to use all kinds of top end monitors for extended use including the Eizo. IMHO (in terms of their effect on print quality) the difference in these monitors with decent color management is about 5%. What I mean by this is I expend about 5% less time and materials arriving at a final print. So I have never thought I needed the best. even with an Eizo and the best color management one has to do test prints. One pretty quickly is able to determine small deficiencies in one's monitor vs. output by doing test prints and that time and material runs about 5% more once you get some mileage under your belt with a given monitor.

Lenny Eiger
3-Aug-2015, 08:25
Kirk, I am in agreement. There are certainly very lousy monitors, less these days, but none of us are using those. In my process there isn't much difference at all. When I print a new image, I've seen it in the world, and I've seen it in the negative, the scan and on the editing monitor. I have an idea that it might be interesting, but at that point I don't know what it will look like as a print. I don't have a preconception of what the print will look like. I like it to be an organic process. I print it, get it close to a "normal" look, then I study it. I ask myself if this is what the image is about. I let it sink in for days. I make another print and add some expression one way or the other. Having a calibrated monitor has meant that the moves I make afterwards are predictable. If I add two points tot he curve, the print will change accordingly. However, since I don't have a preconception of what the print needs to look like, a monitor's accuracy doesn't much help. I still have to do the same every time...

richardman
3-Aug-2015, 11:47
Kirk, you only print B&W, is that correct?

Kirk Gittings
3-Aug-2015, 12:00
Richard, I only print in house for myself and that is my B&W. I have tons (faaaaarrrr more than my personal b&w) of my color commercial work printed by high end print shops, magazines, billboard companies, book publishers, architects, interior designers etc. which I closely supervise.