The mythical perfect tripod

[nimo956]

I nearly killed myself over the July 4th weekend when I took my 11lb Ries tripod plus 17lbs of other camera gear on a 4000+ ft hike in the White Mountains. Since then, I've decided to focus on minimizing the weight of my gear, of which my tripod is the biggest offender.

Up on the top of the mountain, however, the wind was howling and I had absolutely no concern that my camera would be blown off the cliff.

Is there a middle ground? I want a tripod that is much lighter than the Ries, but don't want to have to worry about it tipping over in high wind. Would a Gitzo 3 series fit my needs?

Edit: I'm using a Chamonix 4x5. The largest lens I use is a Fuji 250mm.

[Drew Wiley]

I've been in winds where the the 8x10 plus the Ries was picked up and blown twenty feet or so. Lucky each instance that it all landed on soft bushes and nothing got broken. Usually, I manage to grab the thing before it blows over or goes sailing. So with reference to wind, maybe something twice as heavy as a Ries would be appropriate. But in terms of what you're asking, an empty mesh sack full of rocks would add necessary ballast in a pinch. So what I did for my old age option with the 8x10 (and last month when I was miserable with shingles), is to supplement my Ries with a large Feisol carbon fiber unit. Maybe the largest they have; but it's still half the weight of my Ries and, modified, supports my 8x10 flatbed nicely. I don't use tripod heads; but it was fairly simple to modify the removable tripod center adapter and convert it for a 3/8-16 turnknob ala Ries-style. This is easier to do on a Feisol CF tripod than a Gitzo, though I do have one
of those modified too for 4x5 use. And I ordered the optional stainless foot spikes for the thing. Nice rig when I want to lower cumulative weight.

[Bob Mann]

Maybe the TVXC, the new but not released tripod by Really Right Stuff, may be what you would like. I'm also looking for a Ries replacement, but I don't like the preset leg angle locks on almost all carbon fiber leg sets. The TVXC will have leg angle locks very much like a Ries, so I am going to wait a while and live with what I currently have, and save " my spare change" as I suspect it will be costly.

[Jac@stafford.net]

an empty mesh sack full of rocks would add necessary ballast in a pinch

Why not just a light chain attached to the head or centre column with a foot hold, such a a loop that the photographer nails to the ground?
.

[Drew Wiley]

Are you kidding? There is simply no real substitute for sheer bully mass and those spikes. Ries got it right the first time; so did surveyors. Other than this totally weird present drought year, the wind is almost incessant around here, but especially vigorous in the Spring. Then even in up on the glaciers desert canyon rims
there have been times I actually pulled off totally precise exposures in winds so bad that I had to use my entire body weight hanging below the tripod myself, and damn near blew away myself! That might sound ridiculous. But high constant wind is not what ruins an exposure and shakes the camera, but gusts. Of course, it can be hell to compose the shot to begin with; but this is the kind of thing I have a LOT of experience with. Sure, I strike out from time to time too, and the shot gets blurred. But nothing ventured, nothing gained. I once had my Sinar lifted and thrown quite a distance, which cracked a rod on the front standard. But I just locked the thing in place and used other movements to achieve parallel vertical rise the duration of the trip, until I got back and replaced
the component - a nice feature with Sinar. But when total carry weight is the overriding priority, carbon fiber is wonderful stuff. Not all these CF tripods are ideally designed for view cameras, however, despite their alleged weight ratings. You still need enough platform support and possibly modification.

[Alan Gales]

Ries is the perfect tripod. You are just not the perfect human! ;)

[Peter De Smidt]

Imo, a series 3 aluminum Gitzo with long spikes would be a good middle ground.

[nimo956]

I didn't know that most other tripods have leg angle locks. I like how the Ries is adjustable if I need to make it wider. My friend says I just need to get in better shape! He thinks the extra weight will be good exercise.

[mdm]

I have 2 tripods, a wooden 2 section berlebach with a built in ball head which is ideal but too heavy for walking far and too long folded for flying, so I use a very light 3 section feisol carbon fibre tipod with no centre column, leveling base or ball head at all for that. It gets most things done but requires a bag to be hung from the hook to feel stable. This is 4x5/5x7/Fuji X100/MF and whole plate only on the berlebach. The wooden tripod is the nicest tripod to use and gets the most use for all formats.

[Old_Dick]

Nimo, where did you end up going? I feel your pain about the tripod. Maybe a smaller mountain.:)

[koh303]

FLM CF (sorry dont know their models that well, but any will be better then your ries), Gitzo CF (GT what i use) with 4 sections, will be more then you will ever want for 4X5.
Get a nice head as you like, i use a three way, but would have like a geared compact head instead. Spend the dough, you only buy a tripod once, and it should be a good one that actually serves you well without trying to kill you or your back.

[Alan Gales]

Nimo, where did you end up going? I feel your pain about the tripod. Maybe a smaller mountain.:)

Or do like I do and don't go far from my vehicle.

I was teasing the OP about not being a perfect human but I have had a back fusion so no hiking for me.

[jp]

The middle ground would be a Ries J or Junior tripod. I bought a used Junior tripod. The J is 7 pounds and has the wood and spiky goodness people here like. I added a 3025 head (now called the 56 3d Junior head) for another pound and I'm in business for a mid-weight tripod that's well suited to 4x5. The head is not suited for 8x10, but a Ries or 3047 head would handle the 8x10 fine. At around 6 pounds, a $100ish tiltall will do the job well. Lesser weights with high capacity you are going to be paying handsomely to save weight. i have used a stretchy rifle sling to carry a tripod over my shoulder. One end loops around the bottom of the legs. The other end clips to the head.

I get dehydrated easily hiking so I'd also be carrying more weight of water than tripod on a longish hike. To be a more perfect human, I'd shed a few pounds of my body's insulation/flotation and would easily carry more gear.

To deal with the tipping risk, make sure one tripod leg is facing the same way as the camera and the camera won't likely tip forward. Just gotta stay with the camera/tripod when it's setup.

[nimo956]

Nimo, where did you end up going? I feel your pain about the tripod. Maybe a smaller mountain.:)

I went to Mt. Lafayette.

[fishbulb]

I second the idea of weighing down a light tripod. I often use a backpack that I can hang from my tripod.

The backpack carries everything - camera, lenses, tripod, film holders, water bottle, food, etc in it. I use a carbon fiber manfrotto 055 tripod, acratech gp ballhead, nagaoka 4x5, Nikon 75mm 4.5, 135mm 5.6 and 300mm 9.0. It's more than stable enough as is. I could probably get away with the lighter manfrotto 190 series of tripods really. If I want to travel even lighter I just take my Nikon 90mm f/8 and the 300.

[nimo956]

Sigh...The more I read about lightweight tripods, the more I think my Ries is still the best option for me.

[fishbulb]

Sigh...The more I read about lightweight tripods, the more I think my Ries is still the best option for me.

Why? Have you actually tried a carbon tripod yet? It's pretty great for hiking. It's not like you have to throw away the Ries once you get an alternate tripod. You should rent or borrow a light carbon tripod and see how you like it.

If you do, hang your backpack on a carbon tripod with your camera on it and see how stable it is. You'll be surprised. Instead of carrying a 11lb tripod, you are carrying a 4lb tripod and hanging the 10lb backpack on it. Plus, with the backpack hanging below the camera, it doesn't get as dirty and is more convenient to access.

I've used my carbon Manfrotto 055 with a 4x5 Nagaoka (~3lbs), a 4x5 Sinar F (~6lbs) and a 4x5 Sinar P (~12lbs), no problems. The 055 handles "up to 19lbs of weight", but only weighs 4.5lbs. A Manfrotto 190 carbon handles "up to 15lbs" but only weighs 3.5lbs.

Either of those tripods, or something similar from another brand, are going to be more than enough for a Chamonix 4x5, which only weighs 3.2lbs. Even with a lens, you are looking at maybe a 5lb weight up top. The Chamonix is such a light camera that regardless of whether you believe Manfrotto's weight limits, you really don't have to worry about that aspect of things.

Obviously, you can lose weight or get in shape, but it's important to remember that weight you carry as part of your body vs. weight carried on a backpack are two totally different things. You will notice a 5lb weight reduction from your pack a lot more than you will notice if it's 5lbs of fat off of your torso.

[Bill_1856]

The mythical perfect tripod?
Cheap, light, and sturdy (stable). Pick any two -- all three is impossible.

[Michael Graves]

I'm a big fan of Berlebach tripods. I own two, my wife uses one and we gave one to my daughter for Christmas a couple of years back. Nobody has ever expressed any reason to dislike it. And oddly enough all four tripods are different models, so I have a basis for comparing different models.

[Drew Wiley]

Put it this way. Unless I'm sick (rarely) or the weather is simply atrocious, I'm out with a full view camera pack every single week. And I try to keep the weight
artificially high, equivalent to actual long-haul backpacking. Or I might alternate that with fast walking with a smaller camera sometimes to work another set of muscles. Now I'll admit that I live in a part of the country with a lot of outdoor possibilities all year long, and that my knees and back are still good. My feet have
been miserable all my life. But the more you age, the more you simply have to keep at it routinely. That seems to be the secret. One foot ahead of another, maybe a little slower over time, or a little less far, or a little less far up, but just the same. And once in awhile, when I'm feeling downright lazy, well, that's what
carbon fiber was invented for. Not very often yet, however. Still the Ries.

[Sirius Glass]

Your tripod specification should read: Zero mass [or self carrying], wind vibration free, able to resist toppling over in hurricane force winds, and inexpensive.

[Lenny Eiger]

This is a religious conversation. Some people like heavy tripods, other people like lightweight ones.

If I am out in the woods, out of a strong wind, what kind of stability that comes from a heavy tripod do I need. I just need the thing to stay still. I don't want to carry 11 pounds anywhere. I think its crazy. My Gitzo is stellar. I often shoot many seconds to minutes, and my negs are sharp. What else is there?

That's the other opinion....

[Jac@stafford.net]

I'm a big fan of Berlebach tripods.

I got mine during a period where they were considered inexpensive, discount tripods. Paid $94 for it. Mulda, one of the Report tripods. With a 20 pound camera mine is somewhat unstable with fully extended legs (w/o center column rise). Maybe it would be more sturdy at today's prices. :) I still like it.

[Drew Wiley]

Gosh Lenny, it ain't just wind. What about muck out in the woods? What do you fight off carnivorous deer and giant centipedes with?

[Lenny Eiger]

Gosh Lenny, it ain't just wind. What about muck out in the woods? What do you fight off carnivorous deer and giant centipedes with?

I have a very nice knife, Cold Steel. Sits on my belt and makes me feel safe when I'm out there, even tho' it probably is meaningless. Might be good against a mountain lion or coyote, but a bear... don't think so. However, if I had to raise my tripod as a weapon, which I have also considered, I'd much rather swing something lighter than 11 pounds, which would be slow... and any animal could easily avoid...

[nimo956]

Ok, so how do ppl feel about the RRS TVC-24L with the BH40 ball head with panning?

What plates do ppl use for the Chamonix, which has both a 3/8 and 1/4 tripod hole. Will a Wimberley P50 work with a reducing bushing?

[Bob Mann]

Ok, so how do ppl feel about the RRS TVC-24L with the BH40 ball head with panning?

What plates do ppl use for the Chamonix, which has both a 3/8 and 1/4 tripod hole. Will a Wimberley P50 work with a reducing bushing?

I think I would wait for the RRS TVXC model to come out, if you really liked the way the Ries works, or look at a Gitzo Explorer.

[DrTang]

I have about 11 tripods (plus 10 or so for sale),, and my go to is a converted Bolex with a 3047 manfrotto head

[Alan Gales]

Your tripod specification should read: Zero mass [or self carrying], wind vibration free, able to resist toppling over in hurricane force winds, and inexpensive.

That would be great for using with a 6x7 Hasselblad!

[Jac@stafford.net]

That would be great for using with a 6x7 Hasselblad!

With the Hasselblad Image Stabilizing Sky Hook, of course. Best, however, with the Hasselblad 6x12.

[axs810]

For studio stuff I use a Manfrotto 3051 Studio Pro Tripod (my heavy tripod...only cost me $25 used) and for on-location type work I use a Benro Classic A3580F (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/744060-REG/Benro_A3580F_Classic_A3580F_4_Section_Aluminum.html)(my lightweight tripod). Both work perfectly for what I need them to do but since I have a Wehman 8x10 I've been thinking about switching to a Feisol CT-3342 (since I saw that's what Mr. Wehman himself uses) and throwing on a Gitzo PL5 and a Zacuto quick release...but I'm not too sure.


I'm definitely going to keep following this thread :)

[John Layton]

Mythical, as in - does not exist?

OK...a comfortable pack frame, with pack full of photo gear, and camera mounted on top of this - ready to use. When I see something I want to photograph, I pull a couple of levers on the pack frame, which releases two "back legs" which slide out of the bottom of the pack frame and contact the ground, at which point I lock these legs, climb out of the pack harness while holding the camera/two legs upright, then release a third sliding leg, swing the bottom of this forward and lock it in place.

As the camera is now positioned where my head was previously, I have a pretty good chance that its at or near where it needs to be, and the pack is now suspended from this to add stability - and all gear is accessible from this pack...right where it needs to be. The whole operation takes about one minute...maybe less.

This is something I've wanted to invent...but lately I'm finding that, having recently turned 60 - I just need to go out and create images.
But if anyone out there could invent something like I've described above...please let me know!

[Alan Gales]

For studio stuff I use a Manfrotto 3051 Studio Pro Tripod (my heavy tripod...only cost me $25 used) and for on-location type work I use a Benro Classic A3580F (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/744060-REG/Benro_A3580F_Classic_A3580F_4_Section_Aluminum.html)(my lightweight tripod). Both work perfectly for what I need them to do but since I have a Wehman 8x10 I've been thinking about switching to a Feisol CT-3342 (since I saw that's what Mr. Wehman himself uses) and throwing on a Gitzo PL5 and a Zacuto quick release...but I'm not too sure.


I'm definitely going to keep following this thread :)

I use a Ries J100 with double tilt head with my Wehman and it works really well. Ries claims a combined weight of tripod and head at 9 1/2 lbs. I do have an older version that weighs 10 pounds on my scale. I have heard good things about Feisol but in my case I don't know if it would help get me that much further from my vehicle due to my bad back. I love those Ries leg locks and spikes. Everything is a trade off. ;)

[EdSawyer]

Lafayette is a nice hike, actually the whole Franconia Ridge is a lot of fun. (I Live in the white mountains). The last time I hiked up there, it was mid-day so the light was fairly strong, and I skipped the tripod all together. For my lightweight hiking tripod though , I have something similar to fishbulb: 055CX carbon fiber with an Acratech GV2 head. Total is under 5 lbs. The cameras vary (Canham DLC, Cambo wide, chamonix saber) but it supports them all fine. For the ultralight 4x5 hiking setup, I bring the chamonix saber. It's limited to a single lens (120mm) but sometimes that's just fine.

[fishbulb]

What plates do ppl use for the Chamonix, which has both a 3/8 and 1/4 tripod hole. Will a Wimberley P50 work with a reducing bushing?

I can't speak to the Chamonix, but with my Nagaoka wood 4x5 field camera (which has a 1/4 tripod hole in a metal plate on the bottom of the camera) , I just use a generic 60mm arca-swiss-compatible plate that I got on Amazon. It's super simple and works great with my Acratech GP ballhead - stays tight and doesn't move around. And the price is right, at $12.50: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0087QK9TG/

Really though, with a lightweight 4x5 like a Chamonix or any of the Japanese 4x5's like Nagaoka, Tachihara, etc., you can get a super light tripod setup for backpacking without spending a lot of money. An old Bogen 3001 aluminum tripod (precursor to the 190 series) with a head is under $100 on eBay - something like this (http://www.ebay.com/itm/331588834346) or like this (http://www.ebay.com/itm/121694542486). And it weighs a surprisingly low 4-5lbs depending on which head you get with it. The 3001 by itself is only 3.6lbs.

No, it's not a Ries, no it's not as fancy as a carbon tripod, but it's cheap, light, and sturdy enough once you hang your backpack on it. I usually take my 055 carbon instead, since it's about the same weight and has a nice Acratech ballhead, but my old 3001 with the cheap Bogen 3028 three-way head is just as lightweight. And, it was $80 for the package instead of about $700 for the 055+ballhead.

[nimo956]

I decided to give the RRS TVC-24L + BH-40 ball head (with panning clamp) a try. The whole setup is just over 5 lbs, which should be much lighter than the Ries. I also got some lighter 90mm and 240mm lenses, so the total weight savings of my gear should be about 8 lbs (28lb to 20lbs total).

[Alan Gales]

I decided to give the RRS TVC-24L + BH-40 ball head (with panning clamp) a try. The whole setup is just over 5 lbs, which should be much lighter than the Ries. I also got some lighter 90mm and 240mm lenses, so the total weight savings of my gear should be about 8 lbs (28lb to 20lbs total).

From what I hear the RRS tripods are the best carbon fiber tripods made. I know Frank Petronio bought one and just raved about it. He used it with an FLM ballhead and a Chamonix F1. I don't know if you knew of Frank but I really trust his judgement about gear. Frank's a professional photographer and has a lot of hands on experience with a lot of equipment.

[Drew Wiley]

Naaah. A personal blimp works the best, or my recent patent of a helium filled view camera bellows, that makes the camera lighter the bigger it gets.

[Alan Gales]

Naaah. A personal blimp works the best, or my recent patent of a helium filled view camera bellows, that makes the camera lighter the bigger it gets.

One question, Drew. Do you blow into your bellows to fill it with gas? ;)

[Sirius Glass]

That would be great for using with a 6x7 Hasselblad!

I only shoot 6X7 Hasselblad photographs with at tripod when I am doing cordless bungee jumping. It makes a big impact and I get a lot of coverage.

[Alan Gales]

I only shoot 6X7 Hasselblad photographs with at tripod when I am doing cordless bungee jumping. It makes a big impact and I get a lot of coverage.

You need to try that with your Crown Graphic filled with Drew's helium. Maybe the impact wouldn't be as big?

[Sirius Glass]

You need to try that with your Crown Graphic filled with Drew's helium. Maybe the impact wouldn't be as big?

Naah, the Graflex Model D would be much better with hydrogen. That would add a blast and a half to it.

[Drew Wiley]

The best thing about a big blimp camera is that you can finance the whole thing and even turn a profit by placing aerial billboard-style ads on the sides of it.
Apple recently paid me a significant sum for advertising their latest cell-phone camera that way.

[rfesk]

Some have mentioned using a bag of rocks to hold down the light tripod/head combo. Carrying that bag of rocks with the
tripod, camera, lenses and everything sure doesn't sound like a good idea to me. May as well just carry a heavy tripod.

[axs810]

Some have mentioned using a bag of rocks to hold down the light tripod/head combo. Carrying that bag of rocks with the
tripod, camera, lenses and everything sure doesn't sound like a good idea to me. May as well just carry a heavy tripod.



I carry an empty sack in my camera bag so if I need the extra weight of rocks to weigh down the tripod I can find some when I'm out shooting. At least that's what works for me since my tripod has a hook on the bottom of it

[bobwysiwyg]

The best thing about a big blimp camera is that you can finance the whole thing and even turn a profit by placing aerial billboard-style ads on the sides of it.
Apple recently paid me a significant sum for advertising their latest cell-phone camera that way.

Sounds interesting. Any pics of your rig?

[rfesk]

Oh, oh


I carry an empty sack in my camera bag so if I need the extra weight of rocks to weigh down the tripod I can find some when I'm out shooting. At least that's what works for me since my tripod has a hook on the bottom of it

[OKAROB]

I vote for the Induro CT505 for 8x10 use. It comes with a flat plate that can be switched out for an optional bowl or center column. You don't need a center column with this tripod as it is 81" tall when fully extended and is about 28" tall when retracted. The only draw back is that it weights 8 pounds. The tripod legs are quite large in diameter. It comes equipped with a hook so that you can hang your bag of rocks or your camera bag. It is a well built and very sturdy carbon fiber tripod. It is rated for 70 pound load. I bought it for my 8x10 camera and because of it reasonable price when on sale.

[John Kasaian]

For ultralight all you need is a length of 1/4-20 all thread and a tube of super glue:rolleyes:

[Peter De Smidt]

The Induro CT505 looks good, but not being able to use spiked feet would be a deal-breaker for me.

[dsphotog]

Gear too heavy? Hire a sherpa.

[Drew Wiley]

I already of the perfect tripod and it's not mythical at all. Ries. If that proves too heavy, work out more often (it will help in this respect).

[Alan Gales]

I already of the perfect tripod and it's not mythical at all. Ries. If that proves too heavy, work out more often (it will help in this respect).

I was just recently on the phone with Ries. They are a great company to deal with too!