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Colin Graham
26-Jun-2015, 10:46
I'm looking for double-sided papers in the matte-luster range. Will probably be bound in signatures, so short grain, lighter weight papers are preferable.

I just tried Hahnemuhle Book & Album and it's pretty nice for both B&W photos and text, if somewhat fragile. I'm thinking of trying the Red River Premium Matte or Moab Lasal next- does anyone have any experience with those or the Inkpress matte and luster papers? Recommendations for a neutral varnish/fixative would also be appreciated.

djdister
26-Jun-2015, 11:49
I think Moab Entrada Rag Natural double-sided (190 gsm) is a wonderful paper.

Colin Graham
26-Jun-2015, 12:14
That is a really nice paper- similar to the Hahnemuhle B&A but it doesn't fold quite as well. It also feels quite a bit rougher to the touch, even though the textures look similar.

I could have been clearer in the original post- I've tried most exhibit grade papers over the years, but not many of the book and brochure grade papers. Since there aren't that many available I'll likely just order samples of all I can find. But if anyone has had success with a particular paper (or a combo of paper and fixative) suitable for a book mock-up or very small editions, I'd appreciate hearing about it.

Iluvmyviewcam
26-Jun-2015, 13:02
Here are some DUO options from the Encyclopedia of Photographic and Fine Art Ink Jet Printing Media

Volume 5 - Chapter 3

DUO RC Luster

Ilford Galerie Smooth Luster Duo 280 gsm

Inkpress Lustre Duo 9.5 mil 280 gsm

Mitsubishi Imaging Pictorico Duo Luster

Red River Paper Arctic Polar Luster Duo 50 lb



Volume 5 - Chapter 4

DUO RC Matte

Brilliant Supreme Matte Duo 230 gsm Germany

Epson Premium Presentation Paper Duo Matte **** 48 lb Japan

Inkpress Duo Matte 30 - 5 mil

Inkpress Duo Matte 44 - 9 mil

Inkpress Duo Matte 80 - 12 mil

Moab Lasal Photo Matte Duo 230 gsm

Red River Paper Premium Matte Duo 32 lb

Red River Paper Premium Matte Duo 50 lb

Red River Paper Polar Matte Duo 60 lb

Staples Matte Duo 8 mil Germany

Staples Photo Supreme Duo Matte 11 mil Germany



Volume 5 - Chapter 5

DUO Fine Art Matte

Arista II Fine Art Matte Bright White Duo 210 gsm

Arista II Fine Art Matte Natural White Duo 210 gsm

Canson Rag Photographique Duo 220 gsm

Hahnemühle Fine Art Photo Rag Book & Album 220 gsm

Hahnemühle Photo Rag Duo Matte 276 gsm

Innova Smooth Cotton High White Duo 215 gsm

Premier Art Fine Art Smooth Matte Duo 325 gsm

Promaster Natural Watercolor Duo 190 gsm



Volume 5 - Chapter 6

DUO Fiber Matte

Arista II Fiber Duo Matte 215 gsm

Arista II Fiber Duo Bright White Heavy Weight Matte 330 gsm

Arista II Fiber Duo Natural White Heavy Weight Matte 330 gsm

Hahnemühle Photo Matte Fibre Duo 210 gsm

Harman by Hahnemühle Matte Fibre Duo 210 gsm

There are also a number of RC Gloss / SG DUO papers out there. Matte will always need an archival plastic interleaf. Gloss / SG / Luster holds up pretty good with no interleaf. You can get by with no interleaf on Mate if you don't care about some shinning and scuffing on the blacks

I've used pretty much all DUO paper out there - some are better than others. A big problem for book printers is getting flat paper. I mean perfectly flat. If you use even slightly curled paper the books become warped.

For my maquettes I just glue 2 reg inkjet pages back to back. A galley proof get some curled DUO. I reserve the first grade DUO or almost perfect paper for the regular edition. This may not be a big deal to someone printing 1 book. But if you print editions of 30 or 40 books it is nice to have them all match.

Here are some Gloss / SG options if you go that route.


Volume 5 - Chapter 1

DUO RC Gloss

Promaster Photo Image Album Duo Glossy

Red River Paper Pecos River Gloss Duo 86 lb.

Staples Gloss Duo 8 mil Germany



Volume 5 - Chapter 2

DUO RC Semi-Gloss

Inkpress Duo Semi-Gloss 180 gsm

Inkpress Duo Semi-Gloss 210 gsm

Moab Lasal Semi-Gloss Duo 330 gsm

Premier Photo Semi-Gloss Duo 12 mil

Red River Paper Zeppelin Semi-Gloss Duo 45 lb

Colin Graham
26-Jun-2015, 13:15
That's quite a shopping list. Do you have any favorites for B&W? Have you ever tried a fixative or varnish instead of interleaving to protect matte papers? What methods of binding have you used?

Colin Graham
27-Jun-2015, 11:34
Here are some DUO options from the Encyclopedia of Photographic and Fine Art Ink Jet Printing Media


Ah my mistake- not so much a list of recommended papers but a TOC teaser copied from a self-published book by Daniel J Teoli (http://encyclopediainkjetmedia.tumblr.com/). I gather all 12 volumes, along with the relevant information, are available for $12,500.

andy
29-Jun-2015, 07:59
I'm a big fan of the moab entrada, it's a lovely surface and one of the few companies that will specify grain direction for their cut sheets.

interneg
29-Jun-2015, 11:39
What form will the book take once/ if it goes to print?

You're better off making a maquette using whatever you have to hand to get an idea if the sequencing & image sizes work rather than wasting time & money on making the book using a double sided inkjet paper.

Some bookbinders can run off & hard-bind a book using a decent quality coated paper on a laser press for not too much money. Binders catering to the thesis market are a good place to start.

That said, the double sided Hahnemuhle & Harman papers are very nice for making small limited editions (with some issues), take letterpress well & are easy to bind as long as you stick to 2 sheet signatures. I'd quite like a 150gsm mouldmade version, but I don't have the money to get 1/2 tonne made & coated...

Cheers,

Lachlan

andy
30-Jun-2015, 09:18
in terms of varnish/fixative:

this stuff is great, I've used it, but it takes a lot and is costly.
http://www.atlex.com/premierart-print-shield-lacquer-based-spray-1-can.html

I suspect the best/most economical long term solution would be to use an hvlp spray gun with an air compressor and use a product like this:
http://www.breathingcolor.com/action/bc_shop/160/

but, while the print shield stuff doesn't change the character of the paper, the breathing color stuff does, which could be cool, if say you want to print on a matte paper with some tooth but have a glossy print. or if you want to be exacting you could mask the images and create a spot varnish. Lots of possibilities.

Colin Graham
30-Jun-2015, 09:40
Thanks for the suggestions Andy.

If you like Moab Entrada you should try the Hahnemuhle Book & Album- great detailed blacks that don't soot up, wonderful surface, but it feels a lot smoother to the touch, which is nice for for flipping through pages.

I do have a HVLP rig and was considering this approach but doubt I'd use enough to justify all the setup and space considerations, unless I really flip over the results and decide to do an actual edition. Right now just experimenting.

andy
30-Jun-2015, 10:02
right--I've always thought the hvpl could be a great way to go, but it's a lot to spend and set up--I'll take a look a the hahnemuhle, it sounds lovely.

you could also try the digital certified mohawk superfine or neenah classic crest. They're great papers designed for running through an HP indigo--I haven't tried inkjet printing with them. I suspect the text weight papers will be too thin to hold the ink without rippling, but the cover weights would probably do fine, and they'd be a lot cheaper than fancy inkjet paper. The digital cover weights always come grain short, and typically in 12x18 and 13x19. You'd just need to test them to see how they hold the ink.

Colin Graham
30-Jun-2015, 10:47
I will try those as well, thanks.
I ran across a recommendation from Christian Patterson on Alec Soth's old blog for the Inkpress 10 mil luster, but that was back in 2006 so it's unlikely that the current offering is the same paper. I have a box on order, so I'll report back if it's any good.

andy
30-Jun-2015, 10:52
He printed a hand bound run of 10 copies of redheaded peckerwood on the moab lasal--it's nice enough paper, it's quite smooth. a friend of mine did the binding work--

Colin Graham
30-Jun-2015, 10:55
I could do much much worse so that's good to know. As it happens I also have a box of Lasal in the same order. Thanks again for the great info.

Robert Kalman
2-Feb-2016, 08:54
I could do much much worse so that's good to know. As it happens I also have a box of Lasal in the same order. Thanks again for the great info.

So, Colin, can you tell us how this all turned out?