Nagaoka vs Tachi, Wisner, Zone VI, Shen Hao etc...

[John Kasaian]

To me they all look like 'dorff-oids, but those of you with experience know the difference. So what is the difference? What are the limitations and advantages of the ol' Nag in comparison to woody 4x5s and 5x7s available today? Looking at specs, it seems like Nagaokas would be a back packers dream, so why aren't they being made any more?

Thanks!

[Jim Galli]

Hi John. I've had 2. A 4X5 and a 5X7. The 5X7 I kept because, well, I'll forgive any fault and limitation for a camera that weighs less than 3 pounds and can produce a 5X7 negative. Mercy. But the 4X5 finally drove me crazy. They are very limited. Just a tiny bit of rear swing and no front swing. Not much rise or fall. Hard to use with wide angle lens. I finally had enough and bought my second Zone VI with both bellows. A highly underated camera I think. So now I can run the lens gamut in 4X5 and with any combination of movements possible. I felt it was worth the extra weight for the gains. If I had lots of $$ I suppose there are lighter cameras that would encompass all the Z VI gives me but I don't know of anything that has interchangeable bellows that falls in the Z VI price range. With the Z VI and bag bellows I can double up 2X5 images on a single sheet of 4X5 with a 75mm lens. Takes a lot of rise at 3". You could only accomplish 75mm dead straight on with the Nag. Everybody elses mileage will vary as usual.

[Darin Cozine]

The nagaoka, tachihara, and shen-hao are all double-extention field cameras. The nagaoka is the lightest, but has the least features.

The Wisner, zone vi, and deardorff are triple extention (there is a base, a track for the front and a track for the back). These have longer extention, generally more movements, and have bag bellows acessories.

[sanking]

"Hi John. I've had 2. A 4X5 and a 5X7. The 5X7 I kept because, well, I'll forgive any fault and limitation for a camera that weighs less than 3 pounds and can produce a 5X7 negative. Mercy. But the 4X5 finally drove me crazy. They are very limited. Just a tiny bit of rear swing and no front swing. Not much rise or fall. Hard to use with wide angle lens. I finally had enough and bought my second Zone VI with both bellows."

Jim,

Curious, though I agree with you about the light weight of the Nagaoka 5X7 I am curious about your comments re: rear swing and front swing. My 5X7 Nagaoka has at last 1.5" of rear swing and about the same amount of swing on the front. I am wondering if we have different models?

[Nick_3536]

I thought triple extension indicated 3x the normal focal length for the format in bellows. The Shen Hao has a honest 24" of bellows. I haven't measured the bag bellows.

[Robert C. McColloch]

I've used a Tachihara 4x5 for many years as a field camera. It's light and folds very compact. Has all the movements needed. Latest version allows belows extension for a 300 mm lens and has a rear extension. Frankly, I see no reason for a more expensive camera. Badger Graphic's price is $595 (http://www.badgergraphic.com/search_product2.asp?x=1020).

[John Kasaian]

Thanks everyone.

[John Berry ( Roadkill )]

I have a wisner 4x5 and I can find no fault with it. I don't care what it weighs. It does the job. I've backpacked 60# of 8x10 gear to get what I want, but I ain't that young anymore. If weight was the only concern we would all be carrying cardboard throwaways. After 5 miles on the trail I can assure you, a 3lb and a 5 lb camera will both feel like 10lbs. Go with what will do the job. I do mostly landscapes, but I got the long bellows and I'm glad I did.

[Emrehan Zeybekoglu]

I have been using a Wisner 4x5 standard and I find it quite satisfactory in terms of movements. I do mostly landscape, architecture and historical sites. Once in a blue moon I feel the need for rear rise but eventually find a way of getting around it. Personally I don't care about weight, so that is not part of my equation. Cheers..

[Dave Moeller]

The Shen-Hao has all of the movements you can think of and a Graphlok back, but the trade-off is weight. For a new camera at the $600 price point, the decision seems to be between the ultra-light Tachihara with fewer movements (but enough for most landscape workers) and a spring back versus the Shen-Hao with more movements and the Graphlok back. Both offer similar bellows extension. The Shen-Hao does have a bag bellows option.

The other new cameras start at a higher price point, and each has advantages and disadvantages.

I went with the Shen-Hao and have no regrets, but any of the cameras mentioned in this thread would be a good choice if it met your needs. My needs don't include "light weight", so I was happy to get the extra movements and (more importantly for me) the Graphlok back. At the time I paid Midwest $599 for the camera and a nice aluminum case.

[Eric Wagner]

I had a 4x5 Nagaoka and a Japanese Zone VI in the late 1970s. I live in a windy area and lost a lot of images due to wind shake with those cameras. I then bought a Toyo-Field 45A and in recent years have used a Baby Deardorff. They are a lot more rigid in the wind. The Toyo is exceptionally rock-solid.

[Jim Rhoades]

I'm another long lens, long bellows fan. I few years ago I got a made by Fred, Zone VI. I use that extra extension a lot. A bag bellows came with the camera, that I never use. My widest lens is a 90. I've looked at the lightweight model and think it's rickety. For me the extra two pounds for the extension is worth it.

Having said all that, if I was backpacking or X-C skiing I would look for a double extension lightweight.

John; You know all that and more. What's up? What nutty adventure do you have planned now? Not more skiing with a 5x7 I hope.

[John Kasaian]

Jim,

X-C skiing? Too slow! Until I can get the rails of the 5x7 Speeder bent back into shape I've been skiing with a 8x10 Gowland aerial in a California Cooler slung over one shoulder. Light wieght but bulky and any more than 3 holders makes for a heavy pack. If the 5x7 Nagaoka can be matched with a lightwieght tripod it might be worth considering as an alternative.

[Nicholas Whitman]

I purchased a Nag 4x5 in 1976 sight unseen thru the mail and have used it for field work ever since.

The 8x10 Dorf mostly sits home looking pretty. The Sinar is good in the studio. The Nag gets on site by being light weight and simple to use - one isn't hauling around a lot of metal for moves that are unnecessary in the field. One sad day a tripod leg collapsed (frickin Gitzo) and the Nag hit the ground, cracked the wood on the front rail - a shocking experience - I glued it with Elmers Carpenter Glue, the yellow stuff. It was good to go the next day and has held just fine.

I think these are a fantastic value at around $400- on ebay. I wish I needed an other one just to buy one when they come up.

I am looking to purchase the 5x7 version. The 4x5 to 5x7 adaptor back works poorly.

To me, the 4x5 Nag feels good to the touch and that counts for lots when you are in the field fighting, wind, cold, bugs, snow, or rain ...
This is a tried and trusted tool I have done some of my best work with.

Nicholas Whitman
see work at www.nwphoto.com (http://www.nwphoto.com)