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jpamboukes
17-Apr-2015, 12:05
132536

What the?! Anybody know why these strange marks are appearing on the film? Happens often but inconsistently. Different students, different films...is it a development issue? The marks I'm speaking of are the dark ones running horizontal. Always in different places. This is just a quick shot with my phone.

Gary Beasley
17-Apr-2015, 12:18
Since it is increased density it can't be scratches. Static marks and surface deposits from contaminants are two possibilities left. squeegee marks would be more parallel to each other. Is someone shedding hair in the darkroom and getting it onto the drying film? An examination with a strong magnifier will be in order.

StoneNYC
17-Apr-2015, 21:33
Too much photoflo ...

Doremus Scudder
18-Apr-2015, 01:47
... looks like scratches to me, even though they are black. Check your film under a good magnifier to see if there is surface damage (both sides). If not, try re-washing and see if that helps. If it's mineral deposits from hard water (you'd see these as artifacts on the surface of the film, not damage to the emulsion itself), try soaking for a time (15 minutes or so) in a double-strength acetic acid stop bath, then wash again. To prevent "drying marks," i.e., mineral deposits, use distilled water for a final rinse.

Hope this helps,

Doremus

koraks
18-Apr-2015, 04:32
Yes, they look like scratches to me too.

Fred L
18-Apr-2015, 05:42
another scratches person here. was film developed in trays ?

mike rosenlof
18-Apr-2015, 08:59
run a fingernail lightly over a dry neg, both sides and feel for scratches or hairs. Those seem the most likely to me.

Michael Cienfuegos
18-Apr-2015, 16:35
I have a kitty, and a constant battle with cat hair. That doesn't look like hair to me. My money is on a scratch.


m

mdarnton
18-Apr-2015, 17:52
If they're black on negs, they're not scratches in the normal way of thinking. However, film does turn black when impressed by something. Pressure marks is my vote, but I can't tell you how it happened.

Old-N-Feeble
18-Apr-2015, 18:34
^^^ Maybe bent during loading? Or maybe it's lens flare (see upper-right corner of image).

Gary Beasley
19-Apr-2015, 06:18
A scratch on the base side can refract light away from the center and look dark. You will be able to see this by looking at the base with low angle illumination.

dsphotog
19-Apr-2015, 10:09
They're scratches, just wondering, what film is that?

RHITMrB
19-Apr-2015, 10:25
I had marks very much like that on my film when I forgot to take my watch (with glow-in-the-dark hands) off before loading/unloading my film in the darkroom.

dsphotog
19-Apr-2015, 20:56
Are we all talking about the thin black lines running horizontally across the arms? since that's what the OP is asking about...or the white in the upper left?

StoneNYC
19-Apr-2015, 21:38
Are you removing the film from the freezer and immediately loading it in the holders?

Have you tried re-washing the film to see if it disappears? It still looks like excess photo-flo or the anti-halation layer or something to me.

The freezer comment comes because it also kind of looks like cracks in the emulsion.

Old-N-Feeble
20-Apr-2015, 07:30
Are we all talking about the thin black lines running horizontally across the arms? since that's what the OP is asking about...or the white in the upper left?

I can't explain why I misunderstood the OP. Those look like squeegee marks to me.

djdister
20-Apr-2015, 08:21
A scratch on the base side can refract light away from the center and look dark. You will be able to see this by looking at the base with low angle illumination.

Ding ding ding! I've got my money on base side scratches. But it looks like the OP has lost interest in the issue, and has not answered how the neg was processed (post #6).

RHITMrB
20-Apr-2015, 16:27
Are we all talking about the thin black lines running horizontally across the arms? since that's what the OP is asking about...or the white in the upper left?

The white in the upper left looks like a reflection, I assume from the light source in the room in which the negative is being held.

ShannonG
20-Apr-2015, 18:46
they look like squeegee marks to marks to me,,check your squeegees for nicks in the rubber.or use your fingers.
just a thought

AtlantaTerry
21-Apr-2015, 01:05
For those of you who think PhotoFlo might have caused those marks, I must ask a question. How can any strength of PhotoFlo cause marks like these? I have been developing film since 1955 and do not remember PhotoFlo ever doing something like this. (Or was I just reading and following the directions?)

StoneNYC
21-Apr-2015, 01:47
For those of you who think PhotoFlo might have caused those marks, I must ask a question. How can any strength of PhotoFlo cause marks like these? I have been developing film since 1955 and do not remember PhotoFlo ever doing something like this. (Or was I just reading and following the directions?)

The image is unclear. It looks to me like the back of some of my film if I use too much photoflo I end up with ripples on the base. Because it's not clear in the image (to me) as to if this is a scratch, or a shadow (dense area) I thought it possible it's just photoflo ripples on the base and simply re-washing it and hanging to dry sans photoflo would get rid of the issue.

The OP hasn't responded so we can't seem to get that answer.

denverjims
21-Apr-2015, 09:01
Looks like OP joined to ask this. May have 'sprayed' several sites w/ same question and got an answer elsewhere. We may never see them again. Fairly rude, but that's life now adays.

My apologies to OP if I'm mistaken.

StoneNYC
21-Apr-2015, 09:51
Looks like OP joined to ask this. May have 'sprayed' several sites w/ same question and got an answer elsewhere. We may never see them again. Fairly rude, but that's life now adays.

My apologies to OP if I'm mistaken.

Or doesn't realize there are replies, when I first joined a few forums, either I didn't get notified or do you know how to be notified when people responded, so I came back months later to see that people had replied to me, never knowing that they had, this is pretty common because the system for notification each for them is different, some auto email you, some don't even subscribe you to your own threads so it's just possible the OP doesn't know. Lol.

jpamboukes
21-Apr-2015, 10:29
Hi! Thanks for ideas and advice. I think the problem was contamination in developer trays. My student scrubbed the heck out of them and did two batches of 4 with good results.

The were not scratches or lens flare- what appears to be lens flare on my image was a reflection from an overhead light when I shot the picture.

The only other possibility that seems feasible to me would be static, but I think the squiggles are too wormlike to be static.

Thanks everyone for the help,

Joan

jpamboukes
21-Apr-2015, 11:05
Oh, and yes, in regards to "losing interest" I am new to this forum and was having difficulty logging in and navigating the layout. Certainly didn't mean to be rude. Thanks Stone NYC for defending me:)

Just to answer the questions asked:

It was the darker horizontal lines I was asking about.
Eliminated scratches as an issue after observing with magnifier.
I doubt it was photoflo.
The glow in the dark watch was not it although that was a very good thought!
The film was Ilford HP+400.
No squeegee used.
Film wasn't refrigerated.

I only see my large format students on Fridays, so I will keep you all posted if it happens again.

denverjims
21-Apr-2015, 12:03
My apologies to OP if I'm mistaken.



Glad to be wrong and welcome to the forum.
Again, my apologies for the misplaced inference.

AtlantaTerry
21-Apr-2015, 23:53
If you look at static marks on film under magnification, it looks exactly like lightning: a main core with little side sparkles. And well it should because they are fairly much the same thing.

jpamboukes
22-Apr-2015, 17:27
Yes, I was thinking of Hiroshi Sugimoto's series which helped me eliminate static theory.

https://www.1stdibs.com/art/photography/abstract-photography/hiroshi-sugimoto/lightning-fields-227/id-a_70266/?utm_medium=pla&utm_source=google&utm_term=black-white-photography&utm_content=personalized-ship&product=a70266&gclid=CjwKEAjwjd2pBRDB4o_ymcieoAQSJABm4egolKuFqiQ1HeBduan2pZRhZuCEsJmE5pK9JZ32goNPHxoCdw7w_wcB

StoneNYC
22-Apr-2015, 18:19
Yes, I was thinking of Hiroshi Sugimoto's series which helped me eliminate static theory.

https://www.1stdibs.com/art/photography/abstract-photography/hiroshi-sugimoto/lightning-fields-227/id-a_70266/?utm_medium=pla&utm_source=google&utm_term=black-white-photography&utm_content=personalized-ship&product=a70266&gclid=CjwKEAjwjd2pBRDB4o_ymcieoAQSJABm4egolKuFqiQ1HeBduan2pZRhZuCEsJmE5pK9JZ32goNPHxoCdw7w_wcB

Definitely not static, I've seen that on my own negs and nothing like what's here.

I didn't know this existed as I've been thinking of doing this kind of imagery.