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Natenaaron
15-Apr-2015, 17:38
I have never even considered Rodinal due to the fact that I was told it accentuated the grain. This was back when I was shooting and enlarging smaller formats. I hate grain, which is why I moved up in size. When I did move into contactable sized negs I never even thought about it. Reading posts here about X-ray film there seem to be a bunch of folks using Rodinal. I was just about to pull the trigger on some Pyrocat-hd, when I decided maybe I should see what this Rodinal thing is all about.

So here is what I will be doing:

8x10 negs
tank and rack development
aiming to get negs suitable for carbon printing



This X-ray film world is a new adventure for me as is the carbon printing.

So, why are you using Rodinal?

Randy Moe
15-Apr-2015, 17:49
Because it's cheaper, easier to use than others, very concentrated, I'm now using it at 1/150, lasts forever even in an open bottle and I like grain.


Plus some very wise people told me to use one developer until I get somewhere with all my other LF 'tissues. :)

Jac@stafford.net
15-Apr-2015, 18:15
Rodinal is grainy, but it is sharp grain. There's no mushiness of partially dissolved clusters.

Old-N-Feeble
15-Apr-2015, 18:27
What Jac is trying to say is Rodinal is not a 'solvent' developer. Solvent developers are finer-grained because they cause developed silver crystals to dissolve/diffuse into the surrounding emulsion. But the trade-off is loss of acutance or microcontrast. IMHO, solvent developers are fine and probably desired for things like portraits but for images in which you want to retain lots of textural detail, non-solvent developers (like Rodinal) are preferred. The trade-off is sharply defined grain. However, in small enlargements and contact prints, this is not any concern at all.

Natenaaron
15-Apr-2015, 19:47
is the grain that obvious in contact prints?

Old-N-Feeble
15-Apr-2015, 20:01
No...

koraks
15-Apr-2015, 23:58
Rodinal grain is absolutely completely invisible in contact prints. I contact print a lot (although no carbon from silver negatives yet) and I use rodinal for most of my film development. I have shot a lot of tmx lately and even when enlarging 35mm to 8x10, the grain remains invisible with rodinal.

Did anyone mention yet that the concentrate keeps for years even in a partially filled bottle? Oh yeah, it's dirt cheap as well. It's by far the most economic and versatile developer I have used for films up to 100asa. It also does well with tmy.

IanG
16-Apr-2015, 01:05
Rodinal gives very fine grain when used properly, and is at its best with T-grain (and similar) films. I used Rodinal for nearly 20 years 35m through to 10x8 and only stopped when I switched to Pyrocat HD, never had grain issues, grain was finer than ID-11/D76 and similar to Xtol.

Ian

DKirk
16-Apr-2015, 01:56
You can "cut" Rodinal with XTOL - http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/Rodinal/rodinal.html Mainly used it uncut for stand process - timing being making a cup of coffee and two episodes of NCIS - a square crop losing about 15-21mm off the short edge, blown up to 600mmx600mm gives some grain when viewed from about 6". . . (5x4 FP4)

welly
16-Apr-2015, 05:06
They say two things will outlast anything else on the planet - cockroaches and Rodinal.

Will S
16-Apr-2015, 07:17
And the rodinal can be used to kill the cockroaches! I actually like rodinal processed very hot for portraits because it enhances the grain. But it also gives very sharp results at 1:200. And it does keep forever. My current bottle is one I lost and then found again. It's 8 years old right now.

JChrome
16-Apr-2015, 11:52
And the rodinal can be used to kill the cockroaches! I actually like rodinal processed very hot for portraits because it enhances the grain. But it also gives very sharp results at 1:200. And it does keep forever. My current bottle is one I lost and then found again. It's 8 years old right now.

I've heard the grain on those roaches is beautiful when using rodinal.

Gary Beasley
16-Apr-2015, 12:01
Only downside I ever encountered is the stuff oxidized too quickly when processing on a roller. Added a little sulfite to it and got by with it. I like the stand processing better.

Randy Moe
16-Apr-2015, 12:23
I am using, ADOX APH-09 which they call 1945 Rodinal formula, very dark in new sealed bottles. 1/150, X-Ray, stand development, for one hour. Only agitation is first 30 seconds by slowly raising and then rapping the rack of holders sharply to eliminate air bells. Fresh water stop of 1 minute. 3 minutes in TF5 fix, wash in slow flowing water for 5 minutes. No photoflow, hang to dry, which is really quick right now.


Meanwhile, I eat dinner, under red light.

Jmarmck
16-Apr-2015, 12:42
I was gonna ask what you did for that hour. ;).............unless you have a double door or some other light barrier setup.

Randy Moe
16-Apr-2015, 13:09
I was gonna ask what you did for that hour. ;).............unless you have a double door or some other light barrier setup.

That hour passes very quickly.

Mortensen did 1.5 hour stand and I am now committing to his 1935 advice in totality.

Almost...

:)

swmcl
16-Apr-2015, 13:21
Lets see ...

Rodinal would be for those who want repeatable, predictable results from a bottle that lasts forever. It is also a very active developer that will give massive contrast indexed results - especially in rotation. Use Pyrocat-HD for high SBR and flatter curves; use Rodinal for high contrast results. I think carbon wants a CI of 0.7 and above ?

It aint so good in rotation because rotation makes it very, very active (for most 'normal' darkroom processes) and there is a minimum of 5ml of stock solution required in every working solution (manufacturer says 10ml).

As far as I know, grain is pretty much a non-issue in 4x5 and above.

I just got a 0.61 - 0.65 from 1:50 for 8 mins 20C continuous slow rotation by hand (6 rpm) - FP4.

That's about it ...

Corran
16-Apr-2015, 13:38
I was a big Rodinal fan but lately not so much.

See this thread for some interesting observations and discussions, especially with regard to just what is "Rodinal."
(http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?116247-Modern-Rodinal-Adonal-Adolux-Fomadon-R09-R09-Spezial-Which-are-you-using-Why)

Jim Fitzgerald
16-Apr-2015, 13:54
I shoot for neg's developed in Pyrocat HD to have a DR of 1.8 to 2.4 or even higher especially with Efke 25 which I can get to over 3.00 DR. So it is either 2:2:100 and normal agitation in tanks for 8x10 for 8 minutes to 12 minutes or 1:1:150 and minimal agitation in tanks for 12 to 16 minutes or more depending on the exposure. I print only carbon so this is how I do it. Just my .02. For x-ray film I use 1:1:200 for about 12 minutes.

moltogordo
19-Apr-2015, 21:28
Rodinal is a useful developer for when you want grain effects. It can give very nice, fine grain, but if you want this effect, use a 1:50 dilution and minimal agitation, say, one or two inversions a minute. Agitate the film every 15 seconds and you will noticeably increase the visible grain.

That's what I use it for - half-frame 35mm negatives when I want a retro-grainy contrasty look. Works in 35mm for that, too, but most of today's films are fine grained so the smaller the negative, the better.

Once you're out of this bailiwick, in my opinion HC110 will do anything Rodinal will to, better.

StoneNYC
19-Apr-2015, 21:50
Just try some man, at $13 a bottle, it can't hurt.

I go through a LOT of film and developer, I mean a lot, I went through something like 3 bottles of Rodinal last year, and 6-8 bottles of DD-X and really forget the grain issue, it's 4x5+ you just forget about that. I use it for everything from all my X-Ray Film shooting, PanF+, Delta100, Acros100, and TMY-2, the ONLY thing I don't use it on is HP5+ which looks best in DD-X (IMO) but I go through so much I tried Ilfotec-HC which I didn't like as much as HC-110 so I'm trying that now over DD-X just for economy, but honestly, it's going to be totally different from any pyro developer anyway (which can also be grainy by the way) but Rodinal can give some nice even tones and restrains the highlights which is nice if you tend to push the blowout barrier.

Best thing to do is try it... If you don't like it now, throw it in the basement, let it sit for a few years and come back to it, it will always be good...

moltogordo
20-Apr-2015, 12:07
Best thing to do is try it... If you don't like it now, throw it in the basement, let it sit for a few years and come back to it, it will always be good...

Wish I had said that! :D

Bruce Barlow
20-Apr-2015, 12:40
I think if you try it you should make a commitment to use it exclusively for a long time, like a year, to really get to know what it does and how to get the most out of it.

As someone once said, don't join the "Film Developer of the Month" club. you'll likely spin your wheels that way.

John Layton
20-Apr-2015, 13:04
Amen Bruce...I've been using and loving Pyrocat HD in glycol for almost four years now - and am still refining my methodology and finally beginning to hone in on its true plusses and minuses. Takes awhile...

koraks
21-Apr-2015, 11:19
I should try some of that pyrocat next month when I'm done with the four developers I'm doing this month! ;)

Randy Moe
21-Apr-2015, 11:32
7 more bottles of APH 09 arrive today, a quick backorder from Freestyle to complete my 10 bottle order 2 weeks ago. Total shipping $9.95 for both deliveries.

ORM-D shipping and handling means it is wrapped in a strong plastic bag that is tightly knotted closed, then the box is packed to not allow contents to shift and the box has all edges tightly taped, so no leakage is allowed. FedEx Ground delivery only.

The trucks cross the mighty Mississippi quickly.