Would appreciate help with choosing a higher end printer.

[riooso]

I am just starting to head down the wormhole of printing high quality images at home. I have been using an Epson 3880 printer at a college class that I am taking and I find the images incredible good. However, I have heard really bad things about the Epson 3880 and 4900. I have been eyeing the Epson 7890 and 7900 but since they are a little higher end there are naturally not a lot of reviews on them. I understand that getting a printer is a big commitment in time and money. Things like flushing the system out, general cleaning maintenance, bigger ink cartridges........ I was foremost looking at reliability. My total ouput is not going to be huge but I am to the point that I want high end quality output. I am not stuck on these models or any particular manufacturer but since I have had some experience with Epson I would like equal or better quality output.

Any help would be appreciated. I know this is a huge topic but I would like to at least investigate it.


Thanks,
Richard

[paulr]

I'm surprised you've heard bad things about the 3880. I've had a couple that developed problems, but with the pro epsons, you get great tech support and warranty service. They'll ship you a new printer for free and let you send the old one back in the new box. So far the 3880 is the only printer I've had that lets me use more ink printing than clearing clogs. And I'm very hard on printers ... I let them sit for weeks or months between projects, which is really terrible for them.

I would not even consider one of the larger format current generation printers unless you'll be using it constantly.

[jbenedict]

I would not even consider one of the larger format current generation printers unless you'll be using it constantly.

My thoughts from researching opinions also. I'd like to get a "proofing printer" that I could use to get a print 80% as good as with a high end printer or sending it out. Also, lots of things I do (especially that I give to other people) don't need to be at 100% quality. Heck, it seems "most people" are perfectly happy looking at pictures on the Web or on their smartphone.

[riooso]

I'm surprised you've heard bad things about the 3880. I've had a couple that developed problems, but with the pro epsons, you get great tech support and warranty service. They'll ship you a new printer for free and let you send the old one back in the new box. So far the 3880 is the only printer I've had that lets me use more ink printing than clearing clogs. And I'm very hard on printers ... I let them sit for weeks or months between projects, which is really terrible for them.

I would not even consider one of the larger format current generation printers unless you'll be using it constantly.

I am glad to hear that you don't have any problems with the 3880. The reason that I am asking questions in this forum is that most people here are "real" about expectations concerning equipment and don't do stupid stuff and expect things to work. The reason that I am looking for a printer is that I have projects at school and outside school and it does not take long to go through enough money to buy a printer.




My thoughts from researching opinions also. I'd like to get a "proofing printer" that I could use to get a print 80% as good as with a high end printer or sending it out. Also, lots of things I do (especially that I give to other people) don't need to be at 100% quality. Heck, it seems "most people" are perfectly happy looking at pictures on the Web or on their smartphone.


LOL concerning the smartphone observation. I think you are right about a lot of people but I find that I can show someone a really nicely formatted quality image they get it!


Thanks guys,
R

[John Bowen]

You need to be aware that Epson is discontinuing the 3880. B&H has them with a $300 rebate that ends on 3/31. I'm sure others also have them, but Epson shows them as out of stock. These are wonderful printers, but they need to be used.

[Lenny Eiger]

I would suggest the metal printers over the plastic ones, which start at 24 inches... (I sort of ignore the 49xx as they are harder to take apart on d work on). They are more reliable (and accurate) than the other printers. However, using word "reliability" and large format printers, is a little over the top. They aren't, plain and simple. I know the Epson's the best and I would say that they are made deliberately to break. I don't live right next to an Epson tech supplier and the last time I had someone over, it cost $375 just to them here. Then the billing started.

I would say go right ahead, but do so with your eyes open. When the warranty is up, get a new one.

Lenny

[vinny]

epson always has a discount on the 3880, always.

I bought one last fall. Paper handing sucks. I have to hand hold the paper to get it to feed all the papers I've used so far. prints are great but sometimes I get pizza wheel marks for no reason.

[paulr]

I am glad to hear that you don't have any problems with the 3880.

I've had problems with them; but far fewer than with other printers. And if you have trouble under warranty, Epson will take care of you. The difference in service between Epson consumer and pro printers is night and day.

[mdarnton]

These are wonderful printers, but they need to be used.

This is a really important comment. You indicate that your use will be more occasional than constant. I finally had to give up on Epson because I was using my printer only every month or so, not daily. Head clogs were constant; I spent more ink clearing them than I did printing. People who use theirs regularly never run into this, but it is a known problem for those of us who don't. Finally I switched to Canon and haven't had a single clog, ever.

[paulr]

Here (http://www.piezography.com/PiezoPress/blog/piezography-technical/which-printer/) are John Cone's printer recommendations.

The focus of this is printers for his custom monochrome inks, but many of the comments on paper handling, reliability, and maintainability will be relevant.

[riooso]

Thanks for the link Paul.

Concerning the problem of not printing enough I have seen some general ideas of flushing the system with solutions to better battle the clog situation. I would consider this part of the hassle of owning a printer and taking an extended trip to the wilds. Clogged heads is one reason that I have always used HP for general printing because when you buy the ink you buy a new head. My primary concern is print quality. I have been able to get prints that rival the professional prints that I get by sending out work with the 3880, at a fraction of the price. At $35 to $50 per print a ten image project makes a 3880 affordable. I do my own matting and framing and printing is just an extension of being fully connected from the snap of the shutter to the hanging image. At no time would I berate a professional shop for what they charge because I think it is a fair price. But, as I am retired it just makes sense under the right circumstances to do my own printing. I do both color and B&W because, for me, neither one can do everything so it is good to have a wide range of possible paper output.

Thanks again,
R

[cdavis324]

The 3880 is the one Epson model that doesn't have issues with clogging.

[Peter De Smidt]

I have two Epson printers, a 4880 and a 7600. If I were in the market for a new printer, I'd seriously look into Canon or HP. When they're working the quality from the Epsons is fine, but ink clogs are a huge pain, both in lost time and money. Some people don't seem to have problems, but I certainly do, and so do a lot of others. It could be humidity, regularity of printing, or sample-to-sample equipment variation, or something....

[Muizen]

John: You wrote that Epson will no longer offer the Pro 3880?
What will be it's successor?
Harry

[cdavis324]

I had a Canon 5100 before my 3880, and the great thing with Canon's is that you never have to deal with a clog - the printer takes care of it for you. The downside is that you need to buy a new set of printheads ever year to three at a cost of $500/each(and there are 2 in every printer). The 3880 is the least clog prone - all the larger models tend to have more severe clogging issues. Even if it's sitting for many months the 3880 cleans with one head cleaning... the larger models I've used require multiple cleanings after leaving the printer for the weekend.

Epson support is really great. Canon not so much.

The print quality isn't a reason to pick one over another - although if you like glossy prints consider one of the consumer Epson's with the gloss coating.

[Noah A]

I've been using my Epson 4880 for five years or so with no problems. I occasionally go months without using it and then I'll use it heavily for a few weeks. After a long idle period I may have to do a head cleaning, but I've never had to do more than one to clear up the heads. I've also used a 9900 at a local photo center with no problems.

Many labs and photo centers use Epsons, so for me it makes sense since I can do at least preliminary proofs at home, then go somewhere else to print. If my printer dies, I wouldn't hesitate to replace it with the current Epson version.

[Jim Jones]

My Epson 3800 has produced over 6000 prints in almost 8 years with almost no problems. Sometimes it sits idle for a few weeks. If it should ever fail, another Epson would be the first choice.

[riooso]

Wow! Thanks guys. After all the input for the money it looks like the 3880.


R

[bob carnie]

The 24 inch Canon with 12 inkset and onboard spectrometor is a thing of beauty.. testing the profile maker right now as it can then be used with my other Canon printer.

[Peter De Smidt]

Which model is that, Bob?

[bob carnie]

Its brand new.. IPFLucida Inkset ... like I mentioned I am sending papers to the vendor to make profiles to compare the unit on my papers to custom profiles.
If it works well its fantastic step as you can use any paper with it and if you own a second canon like I do then you can have profiles work on both.

I will be getting very serious about this device after I have seen its BLIND profiling abilities.

sorry do not have the name at hand, but its about $5k or slightly above. So maybe not for everyone.

Which model is that, Bob?

[Lenny Eiger]

I think you also have to look at the print quality in terms of matte vs glossy. Personally, I don't use glossy anything, I don't like it. That way I look at it is that if I wanted a darkroom print, I could just make one. Others obviously like glossy prints and that's just fine, everyone gets to make their own choice.. However, when I look at prints on the Canon, they look waxy to me... With the Epson setup, mostly for b&w, I can get a true matte. It's what I am after....

If I liked glossy I might consider Canon; I think its important to see the prints that the different machines make before buying one. Even more important to know what you are after.

Lenny

[bob carnie]

Waxy?? I have both printers Epson and Canon- IMHO the Canon is on a higher level on all counts. Matte , Rag, Glossy work perfectly with good profiling. If you are off on any machine the prints suck.

I think you also have to look at the print quality in terms of matte vs glossy. Personally, I don't use glossy anything, I don't like it. That way I look at it is that if I wanted a darkroom print, I could just make one. Others obviously like glossy prints and that's just fine, everyone gets to make their own choice.. However, when I look at prints on the Canon, they look waxy to me... With the Epson setup, mostly for b&w, I can get a true matte. It's what I am after....

If I liked glossy I might consider Canon; I think its important to see the prints that the different machines make before buying one. Even more important to know what you are after.

Lenny

[paulr]

In most cases I think anyone would have a very hard time telling the difference between well made prints from a pro Epson or Canon printer. The guy who makes my big prints has both, and I've seen the results from both. There are differences in color gamut in the outer fringes of saturation. If your work tends toward one neon tropical fish over another, this could make the choice for you.

FWIW, my printmaker prefers the Canon for advertising display work, and the Epsons for art printing. He does get more head clogs on the Epsons. But he finds the paper handling for art papers to be much better and this is a bigger deal in his workflows. He doesn't consider print quality differences to be an issue.

[John Bowen]

Harry, I don't know what Epson will replace the 3880 with. I got my info on its discontinuance here:
http://myemail.constantcontact.com/34--off-Epson-3880-printer-and-Piezography.html?soid=1103080512009&aid=dVlEyqo1JzA

[Jim Andrada]

I have a 4880. I live in the desert. If the printer sits for a week or so I might have to futz with head cleaning for almost an hour to get the clogs cleared.

Hate the hassle but love the results. I think if I could remember to print something every day I'd be fine.

[angusparker]

The 3880 is the one Epson model that doesn't have issues with clogging.

+1. Great printer for someone like me with limited and occasional throughput. Never had any issues. Paper handling is fine for single sheet feeding. Never tried to print more than a couple of copies at once. Price to quality ratio is outstanding. I don't think it really makes sense to go bigger - better to get time on someone else's machine if you need larger formats.

[Darin Boville]

It appears the 3880 replacement will be revealed at the end of the month. The new 24" and 44" -inch versions will likely follow this fall. Don't buy now. Wait just a few more days.

--Darin

[paulr]

This is a slightly awkward time. I'd hesitate to buy a 3880 right as it's being discontinued, and I'd hesitate to buy its replacement until we've seen some long-term reviews. Epson has replaced good models with worse ones in recent years.

BTW, I just fired up my 3880 to make a couple of prints after it sat idle most of the winter. After one head cleaning it was good as new. This would have been a pipe dream with my previous Epson and Canon consumer grade printers.

In order to not tempt fate too much, I keep a small tray with a wet sponge inside (like a cigar box humidifier) and a water-tight cover over the top. I used to use a garbage bag for this; after moving in with my girlfriend, whose decorating tastes run a bit less industrial, I bought a fitted cover made from coated nylon.

[riooso]

I ended up getting the 3880 and I am happy with it. Software is very good and connected to the hub it is very fast and trouble free.

Just to give an overview about how I came to this decision. Let me say this up front. These are my views from what I could gather from a couple of weeks of research. I was actually going to go with a 4900 or above but what I heard a lot of is that the models further up the tree are geared more for professional use and, by that I mean high usage. Although not bad they have a tendency to clog more only if not used but, for a professional that is part of doing business. The 3880 weighs about 45 pounds and the 4900 weighs 115 pounds and the 7890 weighs 157 pounds. I have equipment in my house that weighs 100 pounds and well that is something I don not want to deal with. That tells me that there is a lot going on internally that is quite different from the 3880. Ink for the 4900 costs more per unit cartridge but the ink is actually cheaper per milliliter and the same goes for the 7890 but OMG a 200 ml cartridge is a lot of money. Once again, all these parameters can be mitigated by someone printing professionally and can justify the cost. The 490 uses a different ink technology and the inks might be better but I have prints that have been printed on the 7880 and quite frankly I see no differences. The 3880 does a excellent job especially with B&W and matte paper. The blacks are incredible.


Once again, thank you very much for the input. I really value this forum because you guys give the pros and cons on any given topic that really helps someone branching out into unfamiliar territory. There is just so much to "photography" even after almost forty years of dabbling I get to actually become immersed and I am loving it.


Richard

[Will S]

Someone gave me a Canon pixma pro 100 and I've been using it with a ink refill kit I purchased online. I'm pretty pleased with what I can get out of it and it doesn't clog. Having access to less expensive ink is a good thing too.

[Lenny Eiger]

I have a 4880. I live in the desert. If the printer sits for a week or so I might have to futz with head cleaning for almost an hour to get the clogs cleared.


Hate the hassle but love the results. I think if I could remember to print something every day I'd be fine.


Jim,
Have you considered putting a damp sponge in there to keep things a little less dry. Might help that has just a bit... Just a quick thought...

Lenny

[paulr]

I ended up getting the 3880 and I am happy with it.

Congrats. I think you made the right choice. Better than waiting a year to find out if the new version is as good or better.

I considered the 4900 also, and then saw one in person. Pictures on the web do not do justice to the difference between these printers!

[Jim Andrada]

Hi Lenny - how have you been! Are you being force to drink Merlot instead of water yet? I'm thinking of popping back to Ca in May after my wife gets back from a couple of weeks in Japan taking care of family stuff.

I thought about the sponge - maybe I'll try it. In all honesty what I probably should do is get a laser printer for the normal business stuff and power the 4880 off when it isn't in use. Or just run a script to print a small image every day.

Maybe it's more fun bitching about it!

[Lenny Eiger]

Hi Lenny - how have you been! Are you being force to drink Merlot instead of water yet?

I'm good. Lawn isn't so happy. It's ok.... No Merlot, but Coppola makes a nice Claret that we had the other day....

Working my buns off... as usual.

See you soon,

L