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View Full Version : First camera from a beginner, NEED HELP!



principiante
23-Mar-2015, 13:57
I, i'm from SPAIN and i like to star whit the LFP...

I am 25 year old student of photography and would like to enter in this world.

I want to buy my first camera to start, have seen one TOYO VIEW 45c, whit literally "Rodenstock 90mm Grandagon-N" (ATM i don't know if its 6.8 or 4.5 )

Supposedly in good condition, used only once.

the price offered me is more or less 550$ (500)

this is a good camera to start ? It is a good price ?

watching on ebay I think is a good price , but wanted to make sure .
Anyway , here there is not much demand and shipments from US out quite expensive(+ customs), so I do not have the same opportunities to purchase if I lived in the US ...


also, I've seen "rust" on some parts of the camera. (photos taken from the add)

131340
131341

perhaps it is not rust? Can it simply dirt ?

is this important? could be cleaned or removed in any way?

supposedly has stored in his box for a long time...

Could you tell me what other damages should I look for? how must be the bellows ?

sorry if I make a lot of questions , but I am a beginner and these doubts arise , and although not much money, do not want to make a bad purchase.

thank you very much and sorry for my English

djdister
23-Mar-2015, 14:08
Very hard to tell if it is rust from the photos, however I think the asking price is a bit high. That camera body alone should only go for $100.or $150, so the big question is whether the lens is worth the rest of the price. The condition of the lens should be your biggest concern.

Andrew O'Neill
23-Mar-2015, 16:03
I would ask myself if this is the right camera for yourself. Are you looking for mainly a studio camera? It can be used in the field but it would be a bit of a pita. I'm saying this because my first LF camera was a Cambo 4x5 and after a few years of lugging it around, taking ages to set up/break down, I went with a field camera.

fishbulb
23-Mar-2015, 16:17
I'd echo Andrew's comments. I love my Sinar F monorail 4x5 but it weighs 3x as much as my Nagaoka field 4x5. Monorail for the studio, field camera for the field, in general.

Randy Moe
23-Mar-2015, 18:01
There must be somebody in Spain using LF.

You must find him or her.

Look for a teacher or old time photographer.

Gary Tarbert
24-Mar-2015, 05:50
What sort of photography do you do??

principiante
24-Mar-2015, 07:36
Very hard to tell if it is rust from the photos, however I think the asking price is a bit high. That camera body alone should only go for $100.or $150, so the big question is whether the lens is worth the rest of the price. The condition of the lens should be your biggest concern.

thanks for the reply, I think my last offer will be $ 438 (400 €) only if it is in good condition. I may fix the lens. hope he accepts the offer.

There must be somebody in Spain using LF.

You must find him or her.

Look for a teacher or old time photographer.

thanks for the reply, in the studio where I'm taking classes, we have a LF camera. We have not yet begun to use it, next year.



I would ask myself if this is the right camera for yourself. Are you looking for mainly a studio camera? It can be used in the field but it would be a bit of a pita. I'm saying this because my first LF camera was a Cambo 4x5 and after a few years of lugging it around, taking ages to set up/break down, I went with a field camera.


I'd echo Andrew's comments. I love my Sinar F monorail 4x5 but it weighs 3x as much as my Nagaoka field 4x5. Monorail for the studio, field camera for the field, in general.



What sort of photography do you do??

thanks for the reply,

What strikes me about the LF it's movements.
My maximum budget is $ 550 (with lens)
I have understood that the field camera have lower movements, and those with larger movements are more expensive, correct me if I'm wrong.

I will use this camera for "special projects", I have the digital and 35mm and medium format to "carry around" camera.


anyway, what kind of field camera recommend me to reach about $ 550?

many thanks, and sorry for my englis

fishbulb
24-Mar-2015, 08:48
What strikes me about the LF it's movements.
My maximum budget is $ 550 (with lens)
I have understood that the field camera have lower movements, and those with larger movements are more expensive, correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes, that is generally true. If you really want lots of movements for not a lot of money, a used monorail is the way to go. Sinar (Norma, F2, Alpina, or P/P1/P2 models) and Toyo would be my preference, but Burke and James, Cambo/Calumet, Horseman, Omega, etc. might be less expensive.

Have you tried contacting any of your local camera stores, especially ones that still sell film? They may know of another store, a person to contact, or a camera club with a lot of film photographers that might help.

The best deal you will probably find would be to get someone to ship you a camera and lens from the U.S. and not declare a very high customs value, so you don't have to pay much tax. After you wait 30 days you can access the for sale forums here, or you can go look on APUG.org and look at their for sale forum now. You might want to post a "wanted" ad over there and see if anyone has anything that would work - hopefully a full kit with a lens, camera, and some film holders. http://www.apug.org/forums/forum376/

ImSoNegative
24-Mar-2015, 08:51
there was a really nice cadet on the forum a day to two ago that would have been a great grab for you

principiante
24-Mar-2015, 14:46
Yes, that is generally true. If you really want lots of movements for not a lot of money, a used monorail is the way to go. Sinar (Norma, F2, Alpina, or P/P1/P2 models) and Toyo would be my preference, but Burke and James, Cambo/Calumet, Horseman, Omega, etc. might be less expensive.

Have you tried contacting any of your local camera stores, especially ones that still sell film? They may know of another store, a person to contact, or a camera club with a lot of film photographers that might help.

The best deal you will probably find would be to get someone to ship you a camera and lens from the U.S. and not declare a very high customs value, so you don't have to pay much tax. After you wait 30 days you can access the for sale forums here, or you can go look on APUG.org and look at their for sale forum now. You might want to post a "wanted" ad over there and see if anyone has anything that would work - hopefully a full kit with a lens, camera, and some film holders. http://www.apug.org/forums/forum376/

thanks for reply, so, TOYO VIEW 45c whit Rodenstock 90mm Grandagon-N for 438$ is not a good deal?? whit film olders and monocular rubber focus ( i tink it's the name of this)
https://961dc35967d627118b55-fd8a6a8fd4678cb2b067bdc60196a7a3.ssl.cf1.rackcdn.com/models/29/62/296249-1_300x300.jpg

in my small city (50.000 people) can not find any stores that sell this type of camera or clubs or nothing like that, nowadays everyone is interested in digital.

thanks for the tips, I'll make a user account on "apug", did not know of the existence of that forum.

thanks again

fishbulb
24-Mar-2015, 17:22
Honestly its not a bad price assuming everything works. The lens itself is worth say $300 so the camera is less than $150. Assuming everything works. If you can, test all the shutter speeds, the aperture, and bring a flashlight, fully extend the bellows, and check for light leaks. Check the movements on the camera and look for broken bits or anything odd.

Gary Tarbert
25-Mar-2015, 05:44
Your Budget of $550 with lens is not out of reach , Again i ask what type of photography do you do ? if you photograph close to the car or in a studio then a monorail may work for you , if you plan to backpack long distances then i recommend a folding field camera .Regards Gary

principiante
26-Mar-2015, 11:58
Your Budget of $550 with lens is not out of reach , Again i ask what type of photography do you do ? if you photograph close to the car or in a studio then a monorail may work for you , if you plan to backpack long distances then i recommend a folding field camera .Regards Gary


Hi, until now I thought I wanted a monorail camera, but you doing me changing my mind.

What camera field with lens recommend me about $ 500 ?

thanks.

fishbulb
26-Mar-2015, 12:27
Hi, until now I thought I wanted a monorail camera, but you doing me changing my mind.

What camera field with lens recommend me about $ 500 ?

thanks.

Which do you want? Your budget is the limiting factor here. Choose either:

* Monorail with lots of movements- about 3-5 kilograms. Look for a Toyo, Sinar, Arca Swiss, Burke and James, Cambo/Calumet, Horseman, Omega, etc.

* Field camera with limited movements - about 1-2 kilograms. For under $500, look for an older Japanese 4x5 camera, like a Tachihara, Nagaoka, Anba Ikeda. Not a lot of movements but lightweight and within your budget. You might be able to find a Wista, Wisner or Zone 6 but they are probably too expensive.

If you want a field camera that is light weight AND has lots of movements, it's going to cost you at least $1000 for a Shen Hao or a Chamonix (new) or a nicer used Wista/Wisner/Zone 6 etc. or Linhof/Toyo metal field camera.

Here is a comparison between my two cameras, as you can see the Sinar F monorail is much more flexible than the Nagaoka but it weighs three times more.

127717
(with Nikon 360mm lens, at about 400mm bellows extension)

Sinar F 4x5 Monorail - about $150-250 depending on condition and accessories (F2 will be $400+)
Minimum Bellows Extension: 40mm (I can use a 50mm or 65mm lens with a wide angle bellows, and a 75mm with the regular bellows)
Maximum Bellows Extension: 450mm (I can use up to about a 400mm lens)
Front tilt: 40 degrees back, 40 degrees forward
Back tilt: 40 degrees back, 40 degrees forward
Front swing: 60 degrees each side
Back swing: 60 degrees each side
Front shift: 30 mm right, 60mm left
Back shift: 60 mm right, 30mm left
Front rise: 80 mm total
Back rise: 80 mm total
Rotation: about 270 degrees around the rail
Weight: 3.6 kilos

130815
(with Nikon 120mm lens, at about 150mm bellows extension)

Nagaoka 4x5 Field Camera - about $250-400 depending on condition and accessories (later models with front swing $400+)
Minimum Bellows Extension: 65 mm (I can use a 75mm lens at the widest)
Maximum Bellows Extension: 330 mm (I can use a 300mm lens at the longest)
Front tilt: 45 degrees back, 25 degrees forward
Back tilt: 18 degrees back, 55 degrees forward
Front swing: 0 degrees (later models had 8 degrees each side)
Back swing: 10 degrees each side
Front shift: 0 mm
Back shift: 0 mm
Front rise: 50 mm total
Back rise: 0 mm
Rotation: none (not a monorail)
Weight: 1.2 kilos

John Kasaian
27-Mar-2015, 10:39
This is a Toyo 45c
131472

Steven Tribe
29-Mar-2015, 11:46
I realise that you are after a 4x5 camera but this means you are getting a negative which is quite small!

To get a "viewing" size you will need either:

a 4x5 traditional enlarger OR
a scanner allowing digital enlarging plus a printer.

Either of these will involve costs and learning curves (experimentation and frustrations!).

13x18cm format will provide cheap contact prints.

koraks
30-Mar-2015, 13:06
Sinar F 4x5 Monorail - about $150-250 depending on condition and accessories (F2 will be $400+)
Minimum Bellows Extension: 40mm (I can use a 50mm or 65mm lens with a wide angle bellows, and a 75mm with the regular bellows)
I went for the F because a guy in the area offered one. I think it cost me €250 and it came with a rail extension, Schneider Xenar 135/4.7 and a film holder. I had never used a view camera, but I ended up with a working kit for a very reasonable price. I can only recommend looking for a good offer, whatever shape it comes it.
Btw, I find the combination 75mm + regular bellows virtually impossible to work with if any amount of rise or shift is involved.

principiante
8-Apr-2015, 12:49
So, today i went to see the camera , all works fine, he say only used 1 time and and i think it's true.

The lens and the body it's in very good condition, like new, i ask him and does not want to lower the price of 550$

lens it's Rodenstock 90mm Grandagon-N 6.8

The camera is fairly new, it is good price?
do not want to waste money.

many thanks for reply and sorry for my english

fishbulb
8-Apr-2015, 15:23
One thing is important ... is it the newer Rodenstock 90mm Grandagon-N 6.8 (http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NjQwWDY0MA==/z/YNkAAOSwzrxUxUZa/$_12.JPG) with the green line around the front barrel - or is it the older version with no green stripe (http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTYwMFgxMjAw/z/xhMAAOSwe-FU30If/$_57.JPG)? The newer version is worth around $600 vs. about $300 for the older version.

If it's the green stripe version, then definitely buy it. $600 lens + $200 camera = $800 for only $550

If it's the older version of the lens, but it comes with a lot of accessories (film holders, light meter, backpack or bag, loupe, shutter cable, film) then it's a fair price ($300 lens, $200 camera, plus some accessories).

If it's the older version of the lens, and comes with nothing else, I would skip it or try to talk him down to $500 or less. You will still have to buy film holders, a light meter, a bag, a loupe, a shutter cable, and film. Plus any other lenses you might want. A 90mm is a wide angle lens, about the same as a 28mm on a full frame DSLR, or a 17mm on a crop sensor (APS-C) SLR.

principiante
9-Apr-2015, 12:12
One thing is important ... is it the newer Rodenstock 90mm Grandagon-N 6.8 (http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NjQwWDY0MA==/z/YNkAAOSwzrxUxUZa/$_12.JPG) with the green line around the front barrel - or is it the older version with no green stripe (http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTYwMFgxMjAw/z/xhMAAOSwe-FU30If/$_57.JPG)? The newer version is worth around $600 vs. about $300 for the older version.

If it's the green stripe version, then definitely buy it. $600 lens + $200 camera = $800 for only $550

If it's the older version of the lens, but it comes with a lot of accessories (film holders, light meter, backpack or bag, loupe, shutter cable, film) then it's a fair price ($300 lens, $200 camera, plus some accessories).

If it's the older version of the lens, and comes with nothing else, I would skip it or try to talk him down to $500 or less. You will still have to buy film holders, a light meter, a bag, a loupe, a shutter cable, and film. Plus any other lenses you might want. A 90mm is a wide angle lens, about the same as a 28mm on a full frame DSLR, or a 17mm on a crop sensor (APS-C) SLR.

I think it's older version.

come with 7 film holders, shutter cable, monocular rubber focus https://961dc35967d627118b55-fd8a6a8fd4678cb2b067bdc60196a7a3.ssl.cf1.rackcdn.com/models/29/62/296249-1_300x300.jpg and 3 old metal developing Tank similar of that
http://fotos.wiju.es/compraventa/38/969a6e7b8395eb5179591e275ca1355a20525374.jpg

i miss backpack/bag...

thanks for reply

Gary Tarbert
10-Apr-2015, 05:27
Hi, until now I thought I wanted a monorail camera, but you doing me changing my mind.

What camera field with lens recommend me about $ 500 ?

thanks. I would have thought a Shen hao or a Tachihara may not be that far off this

ImSoNegative
10-Apr-2015, 07:34
you might be able to get a used shen for that

principiante
1-May-2015, 00:43
I finally purchased the 45c .
Thanks to everyone for the tips , they have helped me a lot help.


Now I need to get a light meter , x-ray film, developer and fixer to start. (the scaner can wait...)

I saw 2 films nationaly, AFGA cpg-plus (a little more expensive) and konica minolta MG-SR PLUS, anyone know the differences between them?

I do not know what developer and fixer buy , any suggestions?

for lightmeter i saw a Gossen Luna Pro and weston master V, think to buy luna pro...

many thanks for read and sory for my english.

koraks
2-May-2015, 11:18
I have had little luck finding reliable information comparing different types of x-ray film. The only ones that seem to be widely used are Kodak Ektascan BR/A and the Fuji HR-x films, but even for these films, it seems that there are many opinions on how to expose and develop them. I suppose the conclusion is that you'll have to experiment.

As I understand it, most x-ray films are double-sided, thin emulsion films that are either blue sensitive or blue+green sensitive (so sort of orthochromatic, but often with an unknown and potentially odd response curve). They tend to be (very) high contrast and need to be exposed generously and developed for not too long (depending a bit on what you want further processing to use the negatives for). I recently purchased some generic blue and green sensitive x-ray film; so far I have only tested the blue film and the information I could find on x-ray film applies to this film as well as to most others, it seems. I develop the film in 1+100 rodinal and fix with a generic fixer (adofix in my case). It seems to me that developer and fixer don't matter much, although I'd personally lean towards a cheap and active developer that can be diluted to slow down development while maintaining consistent in development.

It looks like both of the films you mentioned are green-sensitive, 'orthochromatic' (opinions vary if this term is appropriate for x-ray film) films and any information on using it for pictorial purposes should apply as to any other green-sensitive x-ray film.

But why would you choose the added complexity of starting with x-ray film? Why not just get a box of fomapan 100 and start there?