PDA

View Full Version : Rule Change - Bumping



Ralph Barker
22-Mar-2015, 07:56
To smooth thing out, so to speak, in the FS/WTB sub-forum, the following has been added to "da Rules":

"Bumping" FS/WTB threads (making any post to a thread for the sole purpose of bringing it to the top of the activity-based thread index) should not be done more than once per week in any individual thread. Threads that are bumped too frequently may be locked at the discretion of the moderators. Repeat offenders may lose access to the For-Sale/Wanted forum.

Sal Santamaura
22-Mar-2015, 09:00
Thank you! Let's hope that cuts down the clutter. :)

Bill_1856
22-Mar-2015, 09:10
And to think -- I've been bumping once a year, or so.

Will Whitaker
22-Mar-2015, 09:48
I assume this refers to bumping by the OP as sometimes threads are "bumped" by well-intentioned forum members.

Ken Lee
22-Mar-2015, 09:51
I assume this refers to bumping by the OP as sometimes threads are "bumped" by well-intentioned forum members.

That's right.

Original posters will no longer be allowed to bump their For Sale threads every day.

Also, they will no longer be allowed to add gratuitous comments which amount to the same thing. As the old saying goes, "A bump disguised, is still a bump" :rolleyes:

Corran
23-Mar-2015, 06:45
What constitutes gratuitous comments?

What if you are adding pictures? What if someone asks a question or requests additional photos (by PM)?

Louis Pacilla
23-Mar-2015, 06:50
That's right.

Original posters will no longer be allowed to bump their For Sale threads every day.

Also, they will no longer be allowed to add gratuitous comments which amount to the same thing. As the old saying goes, "A bump disguised, is still a bump" :rolleyes:

Amen!

Louis Pacilla
23-Mar-2015, 06:55
What constitutes gratuitous comments?

What if you are adding pictures? What if someone asks a question or requests additional photos (by PM)?

This use to be done by PM so to not unfairly allow one sell to stay at the top of the 1st page for days. we use to PM questions so to not make a discussion thread out of a FS post.

Ken Lee
23-Mar-2015, 07:01
What constitutes gratuitous comments?

What if you are adding pictures? What if someone asks a question or requests additional photos (by PM)?

Use your best judgment, knowing that you are being watched :rolleyes:

Adding pictures is certainly reasonable, as is answering a legitimate question. If someone starts to add one picture a day, we know they're just bumping. If someone gets their friend to ask a trivial question every day, that too will become obvious.

If you have a question about a piece of equipment that you feel would be of interest to others, ask it as a post. If you want to negotiate, it's better for all concerned if you take that offline.

The important thing is to remove the clutter. If you generate less clutter, an interested party will find your item more easily and forum members won't grow to dislike you.

Corran
23-Mar-2015, 07:16
It seems to me the Classifieds is getting really cluttered just from the sheer amount of threads. It's too bad we can't have a subforum of classifieds - like one for LF, one for small-format, one for digital, etc.

Bumping on different days/times seems to be extremely effective for getting new eyes on FS threads because the forum moves so fast.

stiganas
23-Mar-2015, 07:24
We have the same rule in our local RC forum, one bump/week. It is very reasonable because you gain nothing by bumping daily (or you might even irritate the daily readers), to be honest I was quite surprised to see here no limit bumping allowed.

In our sales forum nobody is counting the days and we discuss freely (and add pictures) like here but when somebody is abusing the terms it is quite clear.

We have one more rule.

You can bump anytime if you drop the price significantly (like 15-25%).

Ralph Barker
23-Mar-2015, 07:31
It seems to me the Classifieds is getting really cluttered just from the sheer amount of threads. It's too bad we can't have a subforum of classifieds - like one for LF, one for small-format, one for digital, etc.

Bumping on different days/times seems to be extremely effective for getting new eyes on FS threads because the forum moves so fast.

We have considered sub-sub-forums, but doing that would complicate administration, as we'd end up looking like eBay.

Sal Santamaura
23-Mar-2015, 07:48
...we'd end up looking like eBay.That ship sailed years ago. :(

koh303
23-Mar-2015, 08:27
That ship sailed years ago. :(

+1

richard brown
23-Mar-2015, 11:13
I am not impressed.... I bumped my ad sunday night the 22nd at 1900 hours approx..... and at 2300 hours, Ken Lee instituted this ban. And removed my "bump". My previous comment was on the 15th in the evening. So applying it retroactively seems a bit draconian. I was four hours early on a rule that didn't exist at the time. Excuse me but what???? I have a really nice Ebony camera that someone in the forum will love.... I wish to sell it. I don't think this action was justified. And bringing an ad to the foreground a week later by someone who has been a member and bought and sold gear on this fabulous forum for many years should not be a punishable offence...... yes, some will abuse it and that is why I kind of like the apug rule of three days seems a nice balance.

Ken Lee
23-Mar-2015, 11:49
I bumped my ad sunday night the 22nd at 1900 hours approx..... and at 2300 hours, Ken Lee instituted this ban. And removed my "bump". My previous comment was on the 15th in the evening.

Please pardon my poor mathematical skills. I merely calculated wrong, nothing more.

Best of luck with your sale.

djdister
23-Mar-2015, 12:04
We have one more rule.

You can bump anytime if you drop the price significantly (like 15-25%).

I would think a price drop is not really a "bump" in the traditional sense...

stiganas
23-Mar-2015, 12:27
Many do a modest price drop at the weekly bump. Usually you do a massive price drop if you miscalculated the price or need the money really fast.

We take a relaxed approach and post small reminders when someone totally disregard the rule (generally a fresh member who doesn't read the forum policy).

Our volume of adds is comparable with LFPF but the rc models move slowly, normally you sell after 2-4 weeks or longer. Here half of the sales are in the first days (even hours).



I would think a price drop is not really a "bump" in the traditional sense...

baro-nite
23-Mar-2015, 12:36
We have considered sub-sub-forums, but doing that would complicate administration, as we'd end up looking like eBay.

Another photography forum I frequent archives inactive threads (once all items are sold), moving them to a separate forum. There's a user setting for the thread owner to do this, so moderators don't have extra work (other than reminding thread owners to make this change as appropriate). Doing something similar here would really clean up the main for sale/wanted forum.

A separate "wanted" forum could also help.

ghostcount
23-Mar-2015, 12:53
Will this new rule be applied to multiple threads by the OP to circumvent the limited photo attachment feature? If so, will there be an increase on the number of allowed photo attachments?

c.d.ewen
23-Mar-2015, 13:29
Hmmm.....I can see that I'm going to get into trouble, one of these days. Not being in the FS section just for the money, I tend to try to have fun with FS listings, doing things like listing something for $200, then dropping the price $5 every 6-8 hours.

Charley

Ken Lee
23-Mar-2015, 13:31
Will this new rule be applied to multiple threads by the OP to circumvent the limited photo attachment feature? If so, will there be an increase on the number of allowed photo attachments?

Please report multiple threads for the same item if you see any. Moderators can remove them, etc.

ghostcount
23-Mar-2015, 13:37
Please report multiple threads for the same item if you see any. Moderators can remove them, etc.

Does this mean FS ads will be limited to 4 photos per week?


"Method 1. Uploading and Storing the Picture on the Forum. - section C.

You may upload as many as four images in any one post. (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/faq.php?faq=vb_faq#faq_picturelfpf)"

TXFZ1
23-Mar-2015, 14:04
Geese Louise, it's a simple thang. Put some trust into our underpaid moderators. I would think if the moderators see an ad started with multi posts at approx. the same time to allow more than 4 photos, they would not considered it as a bumping.

David

Ken Lee
23-Mar-2015, 14:10
Does this mean FS ads will be limited to 4 photos per week?

This forum is a free service, provided by volunteers. The forum has many functions, only one of which is to allow members to sell their equipment to other members.

When we mark an item sold - and nobody takes a percentage - that is not considered a bump.

If you find the restriction too confining, you may have to find relief elsewhere :)

ghostcount
23-Mar-2015, 14:21
This forum is a free service, provided by volunteers. The forum has many functions, only one of which is to allow members to sell their equipment to other members.

When we mark an item sold - and nobody takes a percentage - that is not considered a bump.

If you find the restriction too confining, you may have to find relief elsewhere :)

Nope not at all. Never mentioned "too confining" just seeking clarification.

guyatou
23-Mar-2015, 19:02
Ken Lee: I think ghostcount's question may have been about people posting multiple "replies" to their original post with additional photos, as opposed to posting multiple "threads." Just swapped the terms (which happens to me all the time!).

Limiting repeated bumps sounds like a reasonable idea. :) And, a special thanks to the forum's volunteer moderators that keep this site so civil and fun!

Roger Thoms
23-Mar-2015, 19:20
I would hope that if you post an ad the immediately post a reply with some additional photos that it would not be considered a bump. Sometime it is nice to have more than 4 photos of an item.

Roger

Ari
24-Mar-2015, 06:30
Guilty as charged.

Ken Lee
24-Mar-2015, 06:51
I would hope that if you post an ad the immediately post a reply with some additional photos that it would not be considered a bump. Sometime it is nice to have more than 4 photos of an item.

You are right. If we create a For Sale post and want to provide more than 4 photos of the item as part of the original post, that's perfectly understandable and acceptable.

ghostcount
24-Mar-2015, 07:18
You are right. If we create a For Sale post and want to provide more than 4 photos of the item as part of the original post, that's perfectly understandable and acceptable.

Thank you! :cool:

Roger Thoms
24-Mar-2015, 09:37
You are right. If we create a For Sale post and want to provide more than 4 photos of the item as part of the original post, that's perfectly understandable and acceptable.

Thanks Ken, I know I shouldn't worry as you guys are usually quite reasonable.

Roger

Ralph Barker
25-Mar-2015, 07:44
Will this new rule be applied to multiple threads by the OP to circumvent the limited photo attachment feature? If so, will there be an increase on the number of allowed photo attachments?

I see replies by the OP to the original thread for the purpose of providing additional photos of the item being handled on a case-by-case basis. Normally, that wouldn't be a problem, but I can envision some who might try to game the system with additional photos of questionable value.

Old-N-Feeble
26-Mar-2015, 18:17
This is a good rule... keeps the sellers from ruling the forum.

appletree
31-Mar-2015, 08:07
New around here, but the ability to mark an item as sold would help as well. If the OP could mark the thread themselves and it be tagged or flagged or something. I think this could help as well, just unsure if it is feasible. I know on the art forum I use to frequent a mod had to go in and change the thread title to add [SOLD] in front. Seems like extra work the mods might not care to take on.

goamules
31-Mar-2015, 12:06
I swear, people sure get hung up on simple rules, and try to make things difficult playing "what if" for days. It just amazes me.

Here is the deal, the big picture, that was trying to be stopped.

1. Sellers, not hobbyists, but people that sell 10, 20, or 50 items a month.
2. Sellers, that seldom if ever post anything about photography, but instead use the FS as a "free marketplace" for their business.
3. People selling that like bumping too often. No, I'm not going to try to define "too often" for you, but I know it when I see it.

In polite society, people try not to be obnoxious, or take advantage, or to arrogantly assume their goals are more important than the next guy. Posting "bumpity...bumpity" every couple days is not being polite. Because a few clueless people were stepping on other's toes, and don't care to be polite, a rule was formed. Good....it had to be. The next thing we need to go after is people selling 20 barely relevant items at the same time. I define "barely relevant" as small format, digital, camera bags, and other consumer goods that really aren't large format. Yes, I've sold a few Leicas. But very few. When a person has 10 items for sale, with constantly moving "inventory", month in and month out, that isn't hobby sales. It's a dealer. Those guys were bumping and monopolizing the FS section.

BrianShaw
31-Mar-2015, 12:13
What if someone has a FS post with 3 items. Is that one bump per week, on a per-post basis... or 3 per week, on a per item basis? :D :D :D

Ken Lee
31-Mar-2015, 12:40
Less clutter is the goal. It's pretty easy to grasp.

Whether we're selling 1 or 100 items in a single post, other members don't need to see that thread until a week has passed, unless we've got something genuinely substantial to contribute.

BrianShaw
31-Mar-2015, 12:43
Thanks Ken. That was way more of an answer than my smart-alek comment deserved.

Corran
31-Mar-2015, 13:27
When a person has 10 items for sale, with constantly moving "inventory", month in and month out, that isn't hobby sales. It's a dealer. Those guys were bumping and monopolizing the FS section.

I feel like this might be aimed (not directly perhaps) at me. Just a couple of thoughts though:

It seems there have been many instances where a person will post 4-8 threads with different items and take up half the front page of the FS, and then bump all those threads at once occasionally. That's much more of a nuisance than one large thread with many items, right?

Secondly, at least for myself, I seem to have a once-a-year 'yard sale' with a lot of random stuff from 35mm up to LF. Is this an issue? I sure hope that I am not one of the "problem" people that both some moderators and users have alluded to. Because I sure haven't been told that via a PM (by anyone, though if a regular user were to tell me, I'd take it into consideration, but would consider it a non-issue unless a mod told me).

Finally, this really cements my view that we really need a dedicated subforum for small format items. While this is the LF forum, who here shoots nothing but LF? I see little reason to limit small format or digital gear. It seems to be a small minority of people that take umbrage with those sales. But maybe I'm wrong.

Randy Moe
31-Mar-2015, 14:11
Perhaps buyers need to search a little farther into the near past.

Sellers need very descriptive headlines.

Sellers should always post 'SOLD'.

Buyers don't need to post, 'PM sent' when they do, it can confuse other buyers and stop a sale.

All questions about a sale could be done in PM, despite how repetitious that may become for a seller.