How do I soften glue in order to....

[John Kasaian]

...take apart a glued joint on an old camera?
I've got a parts camera--a 5x7 Agfa Ansco I want to fix. So far everything has gone OK except a short part of the bed---the part that stays under the standards when the camera is folded---a small piece of wood sort of like a thick Popsicle stick is broken. A short length of rail the standards ride aboard sits on top of this Popsicle stick and are held on with wood screws that go through the rail and Popsicle stick and into the bed---so this little piece of wood is very important. I cleaned up the old glue and splintered wood from the bed and need to cut a new piece of Popsicle stick.

Many years ago I restored another 5x7 Agfa Ansco which needed a 5x7 back. I was able to get a sliding back which puts two 2-1/2x3-1/2 on one piece of film, but it had problems so I scavenged the 5x7 parts off it to make a new 5x7 back. I saved the rest of the parts in the cannibal box for challenges like the present one, meaning I have very compatible finished cherry wood to use to fabricate a new "Popsicle stick." However the old sliding back is glued together and to do a really nice repair I'd prefer to separate some of the glued joints rather than saw the back up.
So my long winded question is---is there any way of softening the glued joints on old wooden camera parts to aid in dis-assembly?

[George Richards]

Heat may help. Hide glue was common in days gone by. It can softened with heat, a hot air gun would be worth a try. A hair dryer might work but hot air guns can get a little warmer. Just be careful not to set it on fire.

George

[mdarnton]

The fast way is to flood the area with alcohol, and use shock. I think this is what I did with mine--i remember taking a thin, long piece of metal and pounding it in from the end, aided with a lot of alcohol. The only way you can get at this piece is from either end, if we're thinking of the same part. It may also be nailed as well as glued--I seem to remember some brads that were probably for locating and clamping.

Alcohol dehydrates the glue, making it harder and less able to resist shock. It's counterintuitive for most people but it's the common way to take violins apart. A lot of amateur violin makers insist on using steam. If you want to do that, put a hose on an expresso frothing nozzle, and a small tube to direct it right where you want. But this swells wood, hurts finishes, and isn't as fast as alcohol and a hammer. On very exposed pieces where the steam can get in there fast before the wood turns to mush, steam works well, though.

Heat only, on hard glue, makes it harder by drying it out, not melting it. This can work under the right circumstances but alcohol is faster. It's instructive to take hide glue crystals and heat them in a spoon. They don't melt; they pop like popcorn, then char.

[John Kasaian]

In any case, I like the idea of alcohol being employed in some aspect regarding this project. I'll start it off with a glass of Bourbon :) Maybe even a cigar while I'm at it :D

[Jac@stafford.net]

A non-intuitive tip. No chemistry, no solvents needed.

Old wooden cameras were fastened using animal glues.
Placing the fastened parts in a micro-wave at high for one minute
will usually reduce the glue to a pliable state and you can pull
the parts away very easily with no harm to the parts. Then use
fine tools to trim the residue, which is minimal.

It has always worked for me.

You might have to adjust the time in the microwave depending
upon its power. Mine is an old 'nuke it' type. :)

[John Kasaian]

A non-intuitive tip. No chemistry, no solvents needed.

Old wooden cameras were fastened using animal glues.
Placing the fastened parts in a micro-wave at high for one minute
will usually reduce the glue to a pliable state and you can pull
the parts away very easily with no harm to the parts. Then use
fine tools to scrape away the residue while it is still warm.

It has always worked for me,

You might have to adjust the time in the microwave depending
upon its power. Mine is an old 'nuke it' type. :)
Cool! More liquor for me! :o

[Jac@stafford.net]

Cool! More liquor for me! :o

Make mine a straight-up Bourbon. Thank you!

Gotta close tonight with wisdom from my grandfather. When asked upon his 94th birthday how he had lived so long and so well, he answered, "Always drink the best bourbon, smoke the best cigars, and never touch the hand of a politician."

Best to all,
Jac(ques)

[John Kasaian]

The micro wave worked! Thanks! 70 year old animal glue sure smells. If anyone else tries this, hold your nose!

[mdarnton]

That's what the booze is for! Smell? Who cares?

[Jac@stafford.net]

I believe we have a success in every way, here.
:)
.

[Mark Sawyer]

Gotta love this forum! :)

[Kimberly Anderson]

I need a microwave oven large enough to get this 12x20 film holder into...

[Ari]

An ultra large format microwave? Now I've heard everything.

[RichardRitter]

I had a camera collector find a way to take cameras apart.

Fill the basement with water where the camera collection was.

[mdarnton]

That was sort of the way my 8x10 Agfa-Ansco was. I bought it a few months ago from someone who'd pulled it out of his basement and listed it on ebay with really bad photos. The size wasn't listed, nor the brand, and he'd put it in the wrong ebay section. All I had to go on were really blurry photos. I bid something like $107 and was the only bidder. When it came, it was in pretty good condition, but pretty bad shape. Most everything that could come unglued had, and it was like a bag of sticks, but still all loosely assembled. I restore violins, so I had all the tools and experience needed, and I had it back together in a day or two.

Doing the job was fun and interesting, and now I know where the weak spots are. One of these days I'll get a new bellows for it and then I'll throw a carbon rod in the worst spot in the design.

[Drew Bedo]

The micro wave worked! Thanks! 70 year old animal glue sure smells. If anyone else tries this, hold your nose!


Glad to hear it. I have had a similar experience with glued joints and a microwave oven, but it was a new woodworking project and I knew that there was no metal involved. I didn' want to throw in that idea and have you start a fire or wreck a 70+ year old item.

In my case, the object was a finger-jointed case that had not set-up square. A minute or so in the nicrowave oven softened it all up enough to let me reclamp it all . Worked fine.

Best wishes on your restoration.

[aclark]

Another advantage of the microwave; if the camera has woodworm, it will kill 'em!

Alan

[John Kasaian]

Now I'm wondering if I've inadvertently created termite equivalents of the Incredible Hulk?:rolleyes:

[Michael Cienfuegos]

Now I'm wondering if I've inadvertently created termite equivalents of the Incredible Hulk?:rolleyes:

Just be careful when reaching into the camera from the back. If you feel something grabbing your wrist you might want to take some evasive action. ;)

m

[Drew Bedo]

Peter Parker worked in a Radiation Lab—nuclear radiation as in Gamma Rays, Allpha particles and such. He was bitten by a mutant spider. Microwave radiation is much lower in energy and wavelength. The woodworms will cook, but not mutate!

BAZINGA!