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View Full Version : Greg Hindy, the USA Walker needs a slosher DESIGNED



Randy Moe
16-Jan-2015, 22:07
These are hard to find, but darn simple, we need to design and make a simple slosher for 4X5 B&W.

Maybe 6 up or 8 up in 16x20 tray.

Need some ideas here, simple and easy to make!

Randy Moe
16-Jan-2015, 22:39
Here's one. http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?55969-Photographer-s-Formulary-8x10-slosher-tray&p=528204&viewfull=1#post528204

David Karp
16-Jan-2015, 22:54
I made mine myself. I took the tray size that I had, determined how many 4x5 sheets would fit. You need walls to keep the film in place. They don't have to be very large. In other words, I don't think that you need a length of solid wall down the center or on the sides like the one sold by the Formulary. There is lots of open space in my Slosher. The walls are short enough so that there is a lot of area for chemicals to move around without having to push through small openings. They are long enough to keep the film in place. I cut the plexiglass pieces with a jigsaw, using a blade designed for cutting plastic. I laid it out on the bottom piece using a Sharpie. Drill large holes in the center of each compartment. I beveled the holes with a file and then fine sandpaper. I bought the plexiglass from a local supplier. They also sold me the glue. It is thin and is applied via a plastic bottle with a needle applicator at the end. It makes a very strong bond. It looks much like the Formulary version, but much uglier. It was based on a design shown to participants at a John Sexton workshop.

I gently agitate the sheets by alternately lifting one of the corners of the tray. If I had a full time darkroom, I think I would always develop my film in the Slosher.

David Karp
16-Jan-2015, 23:02
Before my Sexton-type design, I made one like the panel described in Randy's link. It was based on a similar design by photographer Phil Bard. I did not like it very much. Sometimes the sheets popped out from under the screws. Sometimes it was hard to get the sheets under the screws in the dark. It was too finnicky for me.

I much prefer the Slosher. It is much easier to use. The sheets drop right in. You don't have to hold them in place. There are no screws to accidentally scratch them. The walls provide multiple points you can grab to lift the Slosher out of the tray. The holes in the bottom allow the Slosher to quickly and easily sink to the bottom of the tray.

My Slosher is in the garage packed away. Since the darkroom returned to being a full-time bathroom, I have been using a Jobo drum, so the Slosher is in a box somewhere. I will try to grab it and post a photo.

Randy Moe
16-Jan-2015, 23:09
He will buy one if anybody wants to sell one.

Randy Moe
16-Jan-2015, 23:16
I think designing for 11x14 trays is just silly, let's design for 16x20 even if it is inefficient. He will doing a huge throughput. Developer by the gallons.

Simple is best. he is not a maker.

Neal Chaves
17-Jan-2015, 07:06
I bought an 8X10 slosher from someone on the forum a while ago, but I still have not used it. In the past, I have shuffled up to ten 8X10s in 16X20 trays. Now I do single sheets in an 8X10 tray in one-shot HC110B. 4X5s I shuffle up to six at a time in a 8X10 trays, then fit in Kodak 4A film hangers for washing and drying. When I have a large number of 8X10s at one time, then I will try the slosher.

David Karp
17-Jan-2015, 11:28
I was going to post a photo, but the photos of Richard Wasserman's Slosher in this thread depict his much nicer looking creation: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?119437-WTB-or-Borrow-4x5-Slosher-tray. Mine is functionally the same.

Kirk Gittings
17-Jan-2015, 11:41
I owned one for awhile-from Photographers Formulary-similat to Richard"s. I thought it might be a little simpler to use than the BTZS tubes, but I never was able to get even development with it-surge marks near the "gaps". I tried many different agitation methods suggested by members here but couldn't get it to work right and went back to BTZS tubes. Now I have seen literally TONs of Richard Wasserman's work (I have him give a talk to my class at SAIS every year) and obviously he can make it work.

FWIW I see uneven development on images posted here all the time. Some time back I was at the show of a well known lf photographer with a long illustrious career that obviously used hangers but sometimes got surge marks-subtle but there............The best way to see if you are getting even development is to shoot an evenly lit blank wall out of focus and place it on ZI (middle gray). Then scan it and put a steep contrast curve on it. Detail, and dark or light exposures will tend to hide problems-this method removes aspects that would hide problems. If your methodology passes this test you can rest assured you can shoot blank skies with a yellow filter and get even gradations.

Richard Wasserman
17-Jan-2015, 11:53
Thanks David, I'm blushing...

I have found that when using a slosher the first minute or so of development is the most vitally important. I presoak and then agitate quite vigorously and randomly for the first minute and rarely have any problems. I lift corners of the slosher, move it in small random circles in the tray, and any other movements that come to mind. I even on occasion will stand develop without issues (except extreme boredom sitting in the dark with nothing to do). When stand developing I initially vigorously agitate for 2 minutes.

Randy Moe
17-Jan-2015, 12:13
I just sent Greg an email with 2 sources from the other thread.

He read it immediately, this new app that shows when people read your emails is great.

David Karp
17-Jan-2015, 12:51
Richard,

I agree with your method. I agitated my slosher negs for one minute by lifting either the slosher or the tray itself. It did not seem to matter. Then for ten seconds every minute thereafter.

At least when I took a workshop with him, John Sexton used a Jobo for most negatives, but a slosher for situations where he wanted extreme compensation using dilute developer with little agitation. Much like you use it for stand development. I believe he coined the name "slosher."

Hangers were my bugaboo. Too much uneven development. That is why I built my slosher.

Tim Meisburger
17-Jan-2015, 13:08
Paterson Orbital seems like a slosher, but is a daylight tank. Only four at a time though. It would be great if you could design a larger one. I have the motor drive for mine, so don't have to sit in the dark, or sit there orbiting the tank.

Jac@stafford.net
19-Jan-2015, 16:54
Need some ideas here, simple and easy to make!

Are you familiar with emachineshop.com ?

Randy Moe
19-Jan-2015, 18:16
Are you familiar with emachineshop.com ?

Now I am. :)

walbergb
19-Jan-2015, 18:32
I made and use one (http://www.apug.org/forums/forum37/109450-tray-processing.html) like you seek, but for an 8x10 tray. I cut off two rings from a 1 1/2" dia. ABS black pipe slightly wider than the wall thickness. Smooth the sides, and cut in half to make four C-shaped pieces. Drill short hole (appox. 1/4" deep) into the ends to fit an appropriate diameter brad nail. I drilled the holes over size to accommodate adhesive. Locate, mark and drill the corresponding holes into the bottom of the tray to create four equally-sized chambers. Apply adhesive and assemble (I used epoxy adhesive). File off the excess brad nails/ adhesive on the outside bottom of the tray. This is for 8x10 tray, but it could be modified to fit 11x14 (6 sheets) or 16x20 (8 sheets). The brad nails are necessary to provide stability to the dividers.

Film sheets go into the chambers with the emulsion side up. Chemicals are measured out in advance and lined up in order of use. I use different shaped containers for each chemical so they don't get mixed up. Chemicals are poured in and out slowly: water wash and developer go down the drain; stop, fix and hypo go back into their containers (may be difficult with 16x20 tray). Rock tray side to side and front to back/back to front to agitate according to your regime. Sheets are never touched except to transfer from holders to slosher.

Jac@stafford.net
19-Jan-2015, 18:48
Now I am. :)

We are speaking of emachineshop.com. I am repeating it here to benefit others.

I used emachineshop.com when it just got started, and it has been excellent in every regard. The originator/programmer/genius behind it leases qualified machine shop idle time, when available, all over the country, perhaps the world by now. My orders were fulfilled quickly. The trick is to order many copies of your product. Mine was a louver vent frame for a particular sports car which uses six of them. One piece cost me $110, a dozen were $170, total (set-up time is everything) and I sold the extras for $40 each. Everyone was happy.

I learned something important about materials for any machine shop job - scrap cost. When the choice is between brass and steel of similar qualities (lead steel, for example), scrap waste is an issue. Scrap brass from machining has value. Steel scrap has negative value because it is worthless and it must be disposed of which costs money. Keep that in mind when negotiating over brass works.

Randy Moe
19-Jan-2015, 20:06
I made and use one (http://www.apug.org/forums/forum37/109450-tray-processing.html) like you seek, but for an 8x10 tray. I cut off two rings from a 1 1/2" dia. ABS black pipe slightly wider than the wall thickness. Smooth the sides, and cut in half to make four C-shaped pieces. Drill short hole (appox. 1/4" deep) into the ends to fit an appropriate diameter brad nail. I drilled the holes over size to accommodate adhesive. Locate, mark and drill the corresponding holes into the bottom of the tray to create four equally-sized chambers. Apply adhesive and assemble (I used epoxy adhesive). File off the excess brad nails/ adhesive on the outside bottom of the tray. This is for 8x10 tray, but it could be modified to fit 11x14 (6 sheets) or 16x20 (8 sheets). The brad nails are necessary to provide stability to the dividers.

Film sheets go into the chambers with the emulsion side up. Chemicals are measured out in advance and lined up in order of use. I use different shaped containers for each chemical so they don't get mixed up. Chemicals are poured in and out slowly: water wash and developer go down the drain; stop, fix and hypo go back into their containers (may be difficult with 16x20 tray). Rock tray side to side and front to back/back to front to agitate according to your regime. Sheets are never touched except to transfer from holders to slosher.

I'm having a hard time imagining it in use. Can you add a pic or drawing?

I guess it's like napkin rings?

Will S
19-Jan-2015, 21:26
I just made some of these using perspex and a laser cutter that I got time on at a local makespace. I'd be willing to make more for people if they were willing to pay for the materials and shipping. See this thread for a picture: http://www.apug.org/forums/forum43/135498-any-interest-slosher-trays-4x5-8x10-other-formats-2.html No one seemed interested really so I dropped it. I think larger holes might be better, but I haven't had any problems with the smaller as long as I agitate at the beginning as Richard describes. If you have access to a laser cutter just make sure you set it high enough to burn completely through melting all of the edges. I used a heat gun and a wooden form to melt the edges and bend them into the tray form. They stack too. I use 16x20 trays so I can do two at a time. I have one just dedicated to photoflo as well.

Randy Moe
19-Jan-2015, 21:48
I just made some of these using perspex and a laser cutter that I got time on at a local makespace. I'd be willing to make more for people if they were willing to pay for the materials and shipping. See this thread for a picture: http://www.apug.org/forums/forum43/135498-any-interest-slosher-trays-4x5-8x10-other-formats-2.html No one seemed interested really so I dropped it. I think larger holes might be better, but I haven't had any problems with the smaller as long as I agitate at the beginning as Richard describes. If you have access to a laser cutter just make sure you set it high enough to burn completely through melting all of the edges. I used a heat gun and a wooden form to melt the edges and bend them into the tray form. They stack too. I use 16x20 trays so I can do two at a time. I have one just dedicated to photoflo as well.

Yours is for single 8x10's?

If we could do 10 to 12 4x5's at once in 20x24 trays that would sure speed things up.

Any ideas on that?