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goamules
7-Jan-2015, 06:35
This guy most of us know is a clueless flipper. He is slowly learning what lenses are valuable, after several years of buying common rapid rectilinears and unmarked Petzvals on Ebay for $100, then immediately relisting them as "rare daguerreotype lens" for $1200. I never have seen him make a sale.

But now he's going too far, using Corrado D'Agostini's book, "PHOTOGRAPHIC LENSES OF THE 1800'S IN FRANCE (ISBN: 978-88-8341-491-6) graphics in his auction. I don't know the laws, but Maurits or others that are over in Europe, can you notify Corrado?

221655573067

steveo
7-Jan-2015, 07:47
Click report item on the left of auction header. You may have to pretend that its your copy right that is being infringed.

goamules
7-Jan-2015, 08:12
I contacted him first, to see if he'd just remove the book photos. I told him I didn't know if he had permission to use the book, but that I knew the author and was informing him. He chose to be "funny" and said "you mean you know my Uncle?" As we know, the author is in France, I've met him. And the ebay seller is in NC. I've met him too. They are as opposite as the Mona Lisa and a box of rocks. Anyway, I've dropped it. The author can do the ebay reporting if he wants.

BrianShaw
7-Jan-2015, 09:31
Well at least you didn't tell a fib and represent yourself as the author! :o

Dan Fromm
7-Jan-2015, 11:26
Fair use? I'm not an IP attorney but I suspect it is.

Greg Davis
7-Jan-2015, 11:54
It is not fair use. Fair use is almost exclusively for academia, not sales.

Oren Grad
7-Jan-2015, 11:59
Fair use? I'm not an IP attorney but I suspect it is.

IANAL either, but I doubt that using the material in an advertisement qualifies as "ciriticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research".

Section 107 contains a list of the various purposes for which the reproduction of a particular work may be considered fair, such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Section 107 also sets out four factors to be considered in determining whether or not a particular use is fair.


The purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes
The nature of the copyrighted work
The amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole
The effect of the use upon the potential market for, or value of, the copyrighted work

http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html

BrianShaw
7-Jan-2015, 12:36
So what do you guys think "The effect of the use upon the potential market for, or value of, the copyrighted work" is? Translated... what or how much would the damages be? Generally that's all a lawyer cares about since it determines the lawyers cut. Lawyers really don't seem to care much about "ethics" or "righteousness" or "internet discussion forum outrage/disapproval" in a situation like this. It's all about money as it impacts them or their client.

Steven Tribe
7-Jan-2015, 13:33
Arrived late to the party, sorry!

No doubt that this is a breach of copyright.

I am responsible for the lister giving up his first listing. I don't recall seeing the lister before. I asked him whether the cells were bayonet, rather than screw-in. So he discovered they were. I then told him what the lens was and that he could find information on certain pages in Corrado's book. My view was that this was the remains of a early (no serial number) "ā foyers multiples et lentilles additionelles" casket set. Witha later adaption to the Waterhouse system. He asked what it was worth and I wrote something like "up to a $1000 or so in an auction). I didn't post any photos/page from the book to him - he has his own copy.

His new listing is a lot better than the first listing, although he doesn't really say it is modified. In his defence, he does give the details of where the pages come from. BIN price is unrealistic in my view.

Corrado's book is, I guess, a very agreeable result of what is called "vanity publishing" from the days when amateur poets in the 19th century got their efforts into hard covers. Corrado has taken the initiative with a printer/publisher to produce something which Corrado thinks gives a better coverage of 19th century French Photographic optics. A great success, but the absence of an editor is very apparent. It is not a commercial publishing product and Corrado will be hoping to get most, or perhaps all of this own investment back - depending on how many of the first printing are sold.
The "copyright breach" this is, is in Corrado's world, quite a fine advertisment for the book, if he still has some left.

neil poulsen
7-Jan-2015, 13:45
Report him to EBay. If you can refer them to the book, they'll deal with him. Let them deal with the question of copyright. Whether or not he has the author's permission, which is doubtful, they'll be interested in the fact that he's using these images to "sell" lenses.

Timothy Blomquist
7-Jan-2015, 18:08
Sometimes you can get even with these people, and have some fun at the same time. A year ago, I had someone use copyrighted pictures of mine. I had posted them on another forum and they were hotlinked to my Photobucket account. The thief had a website and instead of copying my images for use, he just used the hot link back to Photobucket. So there were my images, being used on this guy's website. Here's how I got even. I went into my images and changed them, and included big red words offering various sexual favors, all while keeping the link address the same. It took him a while to figure it out, but there were most likely people calling him and e-mailing him for sexual favors that were offered in these pictures. Payback can be fun!!

Greg Miller
7-Jan-2015, 18:40
So what do you guys think "The effect of the use upon the potential market for, or value of, the copyrighted work" is? Translated... what or how much would the damages be? Generally that's all a lawyer cares about since it determines the lawyers cut. Lawyers really don't seem to care much about "ethics" or "righteousness" or "internet discussion forum outrage/disapproval" in a situation like this. It's all about money as it impacts them or their client.

This is complicated by the multi-national elements. But if this were strictly US. based, and if the material being used was registered with the LOC, then I think most IP lawyers would take the case. With a registered copyright, the actual damages are not so important. There are significant punitive penalties that would make it worthwhile for a lawyer to take the case, even if the actual damages are minimal.

Jac@stafford.net
7-Jan-2015, 18:56
This is complicated by the multi-national elements. But if this were strictly US. based, and if the material being used was registered with the LOC, then I think most IP lawyers would take the case. With a registered copyright, the actual damages are not so important. There are significant punitive penalties that would make it worthwhile for a lawyer to take the case, even if the actual damages are minimal.

The case would not be interesting to a lawyer when the defendant is poor.

Greg Miller
7-Jan-2015, 19:04
The case would not be interesting to a lawyer when the defendant is poor.

And we know the defendant is poor, how???

BrianShaw
7-Jan-2015, 19:31
Ahhh, I was thinking damages for compensation of the victim and not even thinking punitive penalties that .

mdarnton
7-Jan-2015, 19:35
My father, when I pointed fingers, imparted the wisdom to me that he really didn't care what everyone else was doing---that I should be paying attention to what I was doing. That this should be enough work for me. He was right. Don't you guys have better things to do?

Jac@stafford.net
7-Jan-2015, 20:05
And we know the defendant is poor, how???

I was addressing the general case, as were preceding posts.
.

Greg Miller
7-Jan-2015, 20:22
I was addressing the general case, as were preceding posts.
.

Perhaps you are Drew posting under another name. I was making a generally true statement. I didn't realize I needed to account for every possible exception.

smithdoor
8-Jan-2015, 06:53
How old is the photo
If the photo is be for 1923 it is ok to copy per the copyright office

Dave


This guy most of us know is a clueless flipper. He is slowly learning what lenses are valuable, after several years of buying common rapid rectilinears and unmarked Petzvals on Ebay for $100, then immediately relisting them as "rare daguerreotype lens" for $1200. I never have seen him make a sale.

But now he's going too far, using Corrado D'Agostini's book, "PHOTOGRAPHIC LENSES OF THE 1800'S IN FRANCE (ISBN: 978-88-8341-491-6) graphics in his auction. I don't know the laws, but Maurits or others that are over in Europe, can you notify Corrado?

221655573067

BrianShaw
8-Jan-2015, 08:12
My father, when I pointed fingers, imparted the wisdom to me that he really didn't care what everyone else was doing---that I should be paying attention to what I was doing. That this should be enough work for me. He was right. Don't you guys have better things to do?

We must be related.

Steven Tribe
8-Jan-2015, 14:07
The book is from 2011 and photos have been made especialy for the book or (by permission) from auction catalogue photos by Breker and Westlicht.

The listing has been taken down as of now.

Steven Tribe
9-Jan-2015, 03:54
But reappeared this morning (GMT) unchanged. Looks like a suspension and then reinstatement.

I'll send a mail to Corrado to-day - guessing his reaction is second best!

goamules
9-Jan-2015, 05:54
I also noticed he removed, then relisted it several times. Guessing what this seller it thinking is impossible. You should see the wacky ebay messages back from him when I recommended he not use Corrado's material. Very arrogant.

koh303
9-Jan-2015, 06:21
I also noticed he removed, then relisted it several times. Guessing what this seller it thinking is impossible. You should see the wacky ebay messages back from him when I recommended he not use Corrado's material. Very arrogant.

Why are you the vigilante of copyrights on Ebay? If you have that much time to waste in making others have a hard time tuning a buck in a way you do not approve of, there are banks and government agencies that are far more evil then some joe shmoe on ebay selling old lenses.

It is more arrogant that you assume to contact this person on behalf of someone else...

mdarnton
9-Jan-2015, 06:38
Q/ How many photographers and forum pages does it take to quietly and personally inform a copyright owner of a possible infringement?
A/ Apparently it can't be done.



My father, when I pointed fingers, imparted the wisdom to me that he really didn't care what everyone else was doing---that I should be paying attention to what I was doing. That this should be enough work for me. He was right. Don't you guys have better things to do?

djdister
9-Jan-2015, 06:50
We could (and have) spent much time talking about crazy sh..stuff on ebay, like cameras being advertised for $100,000 and the like. Aside from its sheer entertainment value and ridiculousness, it's a waste of time beyond that... so I won't mention that some transactions on ebay seem to be money laundering operations...

BrianShaw
9-Jan-2015, 08:00
Why doesn't someone buy the lens; that would end. The listing with no further adoo.

Steven Tribe
9-Jan-2015, 09:12
Corrado says in an email to me to-day:


Dear Steven,
first of all thanks for your email.
I think if it is mentioned or even photographed a page with a clear indication of the author of the book and there are no problems.
If the page or the text is copied without the indication of the book and the author there is a breach of copyright.


I I still have copies of the book and as I write I am preparing the next book on the optical Austrian and German in 1800
that I hope to bring to Bievres in June 2015.

I'm taking a long time to define the dates of the objectives Voigtlaender.


Until now I have viewed 160 goals(? objectives - meaning lenses) trying to indicate exactly the year of construction.
If someone from the forum would like to show me the details of their lens Voigtlaender this would make it even wider my casuistry.
A friendly greeting
Corrado



My italics! I'll repeat the interest in seeing more 19th century Voigtländer lenses elsewhere.

BrianShaw
9-Jan-2015, 09:19
I don't know about the technicalities or the legalities involved, but I commend him for having a reasonable attitude about the whole situation. I know that is how I feel about my "academic works": when they get re-used... all I really want is an honest citation and acknowlegement.

koh303
9-Jan-2015, 13:17
I don't know about the technicalities or the legalities involved, but I commend him for having a reasonable attitude about the whole situation. I know that is how I feel about my "academic works": when they get re-used... all I really want is an honest citation and acknowlegement.

tell that to the OP.

BrianShaw
9-Jan-2015, 13:37
He can read for himself. Not everyone shares our opinion; and that's OK.

Shootar401
9-Jan-2015, 13:58
I've seen this guys auctions before. No clue who he is but hes a toolbag. Along with the guy who prices EVERYTHING in his store $999.99, and the other looser who strips Speeds and Crowns and sells them for parts. Not to mention the guy/girl who gits his panties in a bunch and whines and cries to ebay take down every auction with the word Heliopan in it. I hope these people didn't breed, I feel sorry for this offspring.

Anyway I've used scans from books in my auctions before when I used to sell on eBay. I don't see a problem with it.

AuditorOne
9-Jan-2015, 14:12
I am usually kept very busy policing my own breaches of good conduct and occasional unintentional misdemeanors in our law happy world.

But, once in awhile, I have a little extra time to meddle, with very little effect, in the affairs of others. :D

goamules
9-Jan-2015, 18:51
From the sound of things, everyone is happy with him using scans of the book, including the author. So my thoughts of helping a good lens scholar protect his copyright were unfounded.

Moderators, you can delete this thread.

AuditorOne
9-Jan-2015, 21:35
Your intentions were certainly honorable Garrett.

BrianShaw
10-Jan-2015, 08:34
Yes they were. And you are not the first to take an honorable position and later find that there are other equally honorable positions. You're OK Garret.

goamules
10-Jan-2015, 17:02
Thanks guys.