PDA

View Full Version : Canon Pixma Pro-100 for Digital Negative - Anyone using it?



Will S
31-Dec-2014, 16:20
I bought some pictorio ohp but I'm realizing there might be some issues with this printer. Anyone have any pointers please? Thanks, Will

Randy Moe
31-Dec-2014, 17:46
I bought some pictorio ohp but I'm realizing there might be some issues with this printer. Anyone have any pointers please? Thanks, Will

I got so sick of my Canon Pixma PRO 1, I gave it away.

Do not waste time and money, read and follow the leader, http://www.piezography.com/PiezoPress/category/blog/digital-negatives/

mdarnton
31-Dec-2014, 18:15
After piezography turned my pix green, wrecked my bulk ink system and the company denied there was a problem for too long (the perils of being an early adopter, I guess), I switched to Canon and never looked back, so I'll be interested in how I can use my pro 100 for this, too.

Eric Biggerstaff
31-Dec-2014, 22:10
I bought the Pro-100 several months ago and it has performed wonderfully. I asked the same question regarding making digital negs with it but no one had done it. I have been side tracked with other projects so have not dug into it deeply enough to find the answer, so I will be interested in learning what others may know.

koraks
1-Jan-2015, 07:18
As I understan it, the ChromaLife inks Canon sellsfor this printer are dye-based. Dyes generally block UV light less so than pigments, which may prove a problem with alternative printing processes that require high-contrast negatives. For e.g. cyanotypes, dye inks should be just fine as the cyanotype process requires low-contrast negs. However, processes such as kallitype, pt/pd and carbon transfer tend to work best (I understand...) with high-contrast negatives, although carbon transfer in particular can suit a wide range of negative contrast by varying the pigment and the dichromate load of the tissue. I find that the highest contrast negatives I can print with my epson 3880 with Cone's pigment inks are just contrasty enough to produce passable carbon prints. I wouldn't hold much hope for dye inks for this process.

Will S
1-Jan-2015, 13:04
Thanks koraks. Someone lent me the printer and I've set it up with the precision color refills. It does do pretty nice inkjets, but I was hoping I could use it to expand my base of images on which to draw for contact printing. Sounds like I need to get a different printer for that.

Adamphotoman
1-Jan-2015, 21:51
After using Epson for nearly 15 years, I had an opportunity to switch to Canon. But I do have a pigmented iPF8300.
After talking to the Head of Sales Canon in Canada I am convinced that the Canon ink density has the most density in the industry [ at least at this time ].
Find someone in your neck of the woods to print you off a sample. It just might help.

Don't waste your time with Dyes.

koraks
2-Jan-2015, 05:38
After talking to the Head of Sales Canon in Canada I am convinced that the Canon ink density has the most density in the industry [ at least at this time ].
Hmm, that's interesting. What was his argumentation for this? A higher pigment load? I'm not sure who manufactures the Epson inks, but for Canon's 'prosumer' printers, it should be Canon itself, although there are also Canon products that use non-Canon inks, and some of those inks come from the same suppliers that also supply to other OEM's...including Epson. However, I'm fairly sure that this is not the case with the inks for printers like the iPF8300, as they truly are 'native' Canon products. It's kind of difficult to figure out which inks come from which manufacturer, let alone parameters such as pigment load, as those are specific to the recipes that are typically developed either by the OEM itself, or in close collaboration between an OEM and an ink supplier. Hence my curiosity regarding how a head of sales of Canon could be aware of the density (whatever that means exactly) of their competitors' inks. He may have quite a few clues, but I don't think anyone in the industry truly has a complete overview - and if they did, they wouldn't share that information very freely.

mdarnton
2-Jan-2015, 06:26
It sure would be nice to hear from someone with actual experience with this problem, instead of opinions and warnings from people who don't really know.

sanking
2-Jan-2015, 11:39
It sure would be nice to hear from someone with actual experience with this problem, instead of opinions and warnings from people who don't really know.

The vast majority of people who make digital negatives for alternative printing processes use Epson Printers, in part because the concept of making colorized digital negatives began with Epson printers and several systems have evolved around their use, and also because the Epson printers can be driven with QuadTone Rip, which allow control of output of each ink in the printer and gives the user a huge amount of flexibility in crafting a good digital negative. HP and Canon printers have "black hole" drivers that don't permit this control.

This response does not answer the OPs question but does explain why there is not much of a knowledge base about digital negatives with HP and Canon printers.

The issue is certainly not as simple as "pigment" inks block UV light and "dye" inks do not. For example, the Claria pigment inks in some of the Epson printers don't block UV light as the pigments in the Epson K3 and K4 ink sets. The issue is more, how do you make a profile, curve, or ICC file that gives the right deposit of ink or dye for a given process.

Don't underestimate the complexity of this. On the one hand, one can just invert an image file and print a negative. But making a good negative for a specific process is quite complicated.

Sandy

Randy Moe
2-Jan-2015, 12:14
I asked these same questions, several years ago, both here and at Jim Cone's site about my unloved Pixma PRO1, and got very little response here, except from Sandy. Mr Cone said there just wasn't the demand, and very little reason to expand his system to Canon printers.

My Canon printed B&W prints very well, but I never used it enough to keep the head wet. My digital negatives were dismal.

However, I now know to make digital negatives and custom curves in PS. So I did learn something.

Adamphotoman
2-Jan-2015, 15:06
True Black and White Rip, From BowHaus, is primarily Canon iPF series of printers and Mac.
It can control each channel, use only the 4 blacks or incorporate colour as well.
You can also make profiles, edit profiles etc.

sanking
3-Jan-2015, 10:21
True Black and White Rip, From BowHaus, is primarily Canon iPF series of printers and Mac.
It can control each channel, use only the 4 blacks or incorporate colour as well.
You can also make profiles, edit profiles etc.

Even if you are able to control each ink with True Black And White, the question is how many of the inks in the Canon iPF set are good UV blockers? Visual density does not correlate with UV density, which is what we need for most alternative printing. And this kind of information will not be available from sales representatives, or far that matter, even from the companies that make the inks. The issue, to put it simply, is that the requirements of an ink set for making monochrome or color prints are very different from the requirements for making digital negatives. For digital negatives visual evaluation is irrelevant, what counts is UV blocking, and how many (more is better) inks you can use to create a negative with the right density range for your process.

Sandy

Adamphotoman
3-Jan-2015, 18:02
Then use the right inks designed to block UV
UV Blocking Inks for Screen Printing and for digital film negative units

sanking
3-Jan-2015, 19:50
My goodness yes. Install a custom ink set of black inks with good UV blocking and drive the printer with a RIP. That will definitely work.

Is it possible to use the Canon Pixma Pro-100 with a RIP?

Sandy

Adamphotoman
5-Jan-2015, 01:03
It is actually quite easy to make your own ink. I used to make my own with Pizography and Quad Tone Rip in the past. Building ink sets is relatively easy. Black ink is available commercially. With glycerine, photo flow and UV blockers you should be able to formulate an effective solution.

sanking
5-Jan-2015, 10:36
I currently have several Epson printers with custom all gray ink sets installed that I run with QTR, two for making digital negatives for carbon transfer printing, so I am fairly informed on mixing inks, building inks and creating QTR profiles to make optimum digital negatives for my process.

But perhaps this discussion has gotten off point. My guess is that the OP just wanted to know if it were possible to make digital negatives with the Canon Pixma-100 with the installed ink set and Canon driver. If so, Koraks already gave about the best answer in the thread, which as I read it was, it is probably possible to make digital negatives with this printer, but the ink set will impose limitations.

Sandy

Cyanidecoma
19-Jan-2015, 09:14
Holy crud why do you people go so far off topic to answer a simple question. Canon does offer uv blocking inks, therefore the answer is yes , it is possible to make a great digital negative with a canon. Some of you need to go back to traditional printing to clear the technical bs from your digital induced pea brains

koraks
19-Jan-2015, 10:08
Instead of accusing us of having pea brains, could you tell us a bit about the specifics of Canon's blocking inks? How well do they work for you and with which processes have you used them? That would actually add something useful to the discussion. I'd be glad to stand corrected on anything I say if a credible argument is offered.
Oh, and welcome to the forum.

Will S
19-Jan-2015, 10:26
I emailed Precision Inks who makes the inks that I'm using in my pixma-pro 100 right now, but he said he had no information about their UV blocking abilities :-( I hope to do some step wedges with it soon, maybe tonight. Been busy learning bromoil, so haven't had time, but if someone knows of a refill ink that has UV blocking please do post it. Thanks, Will

Randy Moe
19-Jan-2015, 10:42
Maybe we need to ignore posts from newbies with odd names and very few posts, that start shooting right away?

Trolls abound.

koraks
19-Jan-2015, 12:48
I'm all for the benefit of the doubt. It sometimes takes people a few posts to get used to the way a specific community works and even new users may have something useful to say. Even if it isn't immediately apparent...

djdister
19-Jan-2015, 12:52
Holy crud why do you people go so far off topic to answer a simple question. Canon does offer uv blocking inks, therefore the answer is yes , it is possible to make a great digital negative with a canon. Some of you need to go back to traditional printing to clear the technical bs from your digital induced pea brains

Appreciate your going into rant mode on your first post. Now please take your Ritalin...

DennisD
5-Feb-2015, 20:31
It is actually quite easy to make your own ink. I used to make my own with Pizography and Quad Tone Rip in the past. Building ink sets is relatively easy. Black ink is available commercially. With glycerine, photo flow and UV blockers you should be able to formulate an effective solution.

Interested to know if you've made your own ink sets for your Canon ipf series printer. Please provide any helpful details.
Thanks