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djdister
24-Dec-2014, 13:58
Perhaps it's just me, but it seems that 95% of the time, the most rude and antagonistic posters are also anonymous - i.e. they are registered users, but their profile does not reveal their name (and usually, nothing at all about them). Does the fact that registered users are allowed to be completely anonymous embolden some percentage of them to routinely be argumentative, antagonistic and just plain obnoxious?

I think it does.

On the flip side, 95% of the posters who routinely post helpful, insightful, and thoughtful responses identify themselves by name in their profile.

The Moderators identify themselves by their real names - why shouldn't everyone else?

Gem Singer
24-Dec-2014, 14:16
It especially annoys me when people post a WTB or FS ad. Then, when answering their, request I discover that they

are located in a country where it is difficult, or impossible, to ship items.

I wish they would state their location, as well as their name.

Randy Moe
24-Dec-2014, 14:36
Real names with at least a country would be ideal.

Preston
24-Dec-2014, 14:43
Real names with at least a country would be ideal.

I agree, Randy.

--P

vinny
24-Dec-2014, 14:45
I think I'm in the rude, unhelpful 5%.

Ari
24-Dec-2014, 14:48
I think I'm in the rude, unhelpful 5%.

I don't know, but I'm sure that this comment was helpful in some way. :)

Alan Gales
24-Dec-2014, 14:54
Kirkwood Athletic Association (baseball and fastpitch softball here in St. Louis) has a forum and everyone was allowed to use fake names. Since my daughter was a pitcher I would try to help other parents of daughters starting out. For some reason some people thought that the style of pitching that their daughter was taught was the only style to learn. They obviously had never seen college ball and would claim certain top pitchers pitched the style that they liked. When I proved them wrong they would just come back on the forum with a different name. The trolls were so bad that KAA eventually made everyone use their real names. There were a lot less posts but at least they were meaningful.

Fortunately, it's nothing like that on here but I think it is easier to be rude when you don't use your real name.

Alan Gales (my real name)

Heroique
24-Dec-2014, 14:57
Real names + anonymous names are both okay in my book, but I think I like symbols even better!

I've been pondering changing my user name to this one: ♣

But I also really like this one: ☺

Either way, in the spirit of Prince, I will proudly be "the LFer previously known as Heroique."

Randy Moe
24-Dec-2014, 15:00
Be the first to claim either 'Real Name' or 'Fake Name'.

Go!

mdarnton
24-Dec-2014, 15:26
It was said once before, but I think per-day posting limits would cause people to focus their comments better. However, I'm making liberal, focused use of my ignore list these days, selectively turning off the folks who consistently don't add value. Makes me feel good, and no one else knows. :-)

Heroique
24-Dec-2014, 15:35
It was said once before, but I think per-day posting limits would cause people to focus their comments better...

Excellent point, and to second this opinion, I have a golden opportunity to call attention to myself:


Good luck Michael [who resigned from the forum], your participation will be missed, and updated forum software that limits one to, say, 3 per posts per day (and 14 posts per week) might help return discussions here to their Golden Age, or at least the Silver one.

Signed, ♣

Darin Boville
24-Dec-2014, 15:57
I know moderators have a tough job--all moderators everywhere have a tough job--but this is one of the most well-behaved Internet boards that I've ever participated in. Do we really have a problem caused by anonymous users?

--Darin

Vaughn
24-Dec-2014, 16:02
...Do we really have a problem caused by anonymous users?--Darin

no...

Jody_S
24-Dec-2014, 16:12
I will happily switch to using my real name when a couple of people are dead. Until then, nowhere on the Internet. This has 0% to do with my behavior on Internet forums.

Mike Anderson
24-Dec-2014, 16:14
I know moderators have a tough job--all moderators everywhere have a tough job--but this is one of the most well-behaved Internet boards that I've ever participated in. Do we really have a problem caused by anonymous users?

--Darin

ditto. The internet is a wild wild west full of goodness and craziness. The mods (and the forum culture too) have done a good job at keeping this forum civil and useful and interesting.

Sal Santamaura
24-Dec-2014, 16:19
I've long advocated for real names only. Agree with Dan and Alan but disagree with "mdarnton."

On another point, this thread belongs in "Feedback," not "the Lounge." I'll notify moderators to move it. :)

Kirk Gittings
24-Dec-2014, 16:22
having been a moderator here for a few years let me say this.

While I think anonymity generally breeds lack of decorum, it is not at all a universal condition. When I was a moderator the really problem members used their own names and just didn't give a hoot what people thought. IMHO the big problem was not fake identities but lack of maturity...as it still is.......including myself at times when I forget what kind of behavior is best for the forum rather than what best serves my ego.

Heroique
24-Dec-2014, 16:26
no...

I tend to agree, I really don't think uninformed, impolite, political, religious, or even rule-breaking, vitriolic posts are any more a function of anonymity than they are of real names.

However and this is just a hunch I bet symbols just might improve posts all around!

BTW, weren't you considering changing your username to III?

Signed, ♣

Old-N-Feeble
24-Dec-2014, 16:34
I'm not quite sure what you mean, djdister.

Old-N-Feeble
24-Dec-2014, 16:36
having been a moderator here for a few years let me say this.

While I think anonymity generally breeds lack of decorum, it is not at all a universal condition. When I was a moderator the really problem members used their own names and just didn't give a hoot what people thought. IMHO the big problem was not fake identities but lack of maturity...as it still is.......including myself at times when I forget what kind of behavior is best for the forum rather than what best serves my ego.

Kirk... we didn't like each other... and I was banned... right? Oops... I'm in trouble now......

gleaf
24-Dec-2014, 16:39
Why do I so love the cartoon....127147

Kirk Gittings
24-Dec-2014, 16:40
O-n-F, I have no idea and don't care really-not my problem now. No one got banned because I didn't like them. People were banned for their behavior, including a couple of people who were (and continue to be) friends of mine who just wouldn't follow the rules.

Vaughn
24-Dec-2014, 16:49
...BTW, weren't you considering changing your username to III?...

Yeah, but decided against it as I would probably never get to be number I in anything. I am thinking of THO (Tall Hairy One) instead.

Ralph Barker
24-Dec-2014, 16:57
Opinions differ on the real names vs. "handles" issue. While remaining anonymous might affect the behavior of some people, I haven't seen that to be a real issue. Plus, there is no way to conclusively prove a person's identity within the online registration process. Thus, it is entirely possible for someone to register under a seemingly conventional name, but, in fact, be someone whom we have banned under their real name. That's life in the electronic world . . . at least until we add the retina-scan module to the software. ;-)

Jody_S
24-Dec-2014, 17:22
Should I re-post the BBC 2 'Grumpy Old Men' video? The level of grumpage on this forum is sometimes deafening. Any worse and we'll be a bunch of old geezers yelling at clouds and telling those damn kids to get off our lawns. I do think this drives off a lot of potential members, who read a few posts and move on without ever joining.

I stay because I have learned to ignore the grump and dig for the jewels of information scattered about the forum, plus I like the pretty pictures of rocks and trees and waterfalls and whatnot. But I don't get a lot of social belonging, fellowship, community, or whatever you want to call it, here. This has nothing to do with real names vs. handles, and everything to do with LF photographers thinking they are better than everyone else.

StoneNYC
24-Dec-2014, 17:40
I don't mind some anonymity, I myself am sometimes argumentative, but by-the-by, my name IS actually Stone...

StoneNYC is my online identifier everywhere online, including my website www.stonenyc.com

My "persona" is easily traceable to my real person, I'm not here to hide with my name, I'm here to be easily findable other places by keeping things consistent. Also, my full name is SO COMMON there could be possibly 100,000 men in America with my name (I'm exaggerating but you get the idea).

What I do think is you should have to give your credit card even if you're not charged, this would ensure only ONE account could be created per parson, and banned people would stay banned, because you couldn't sign up without identifying who you are. This would also prevent spammer accounts from being a problem.

Just my take.

I agree, people who won't identify themselves are sometimes more verbose, but it's sort of 50/50.

:)

rdenney
24-Dec-2014, 17:49
On the topic, I'm with Ralph and others who have pointed out that there seems to be no correlation between behavior and the appearance of a regular name. Some who have required further investigation were registered under false names. Basically, we don't care--but we do care about the guidelines.

There are certainly some curmudgeons here, and some who seem to post in every thread. But that could be said of my ham radio club, my church, my local photography friends, my motorhome buddies, and every other group in which I participate. Part of navigating through this world is taking people as they come, and if that scares people off; well, propping up fragile egos isn't the purpose of this forum.

If a post doesn't follow the guidelines, report it. But thick skins and shoulders without chips on them would be good advice for all of us.

Rick "just sayin" Denney

TXFZ1
24-Dec-2014, 17:58
Where are some facts supporting the OP initial claim?

http://youtu.be/F7pYHN9iC9I

You can call me paranoid but I will keep some distance to my identity.

Bill_1856
24-Dec-2014, 18:10
Why do I so love the cartoon....127147

That really should get someone banned for LIFE! (I don't seem to be able to stop chuckling!)

Winger
24-Dec-2014, 18:32
I use a nickname here and nearly everywhere else on the web (all the photography-related sites I visit anyway). I don't think that has anything to do with any of my questions or answers regarding photography.

Kirk Gittings
24-Dec-2014, 18:34
Bethe, there is some really nice work on your site BTW.

Vaughn
24-Dec-2014, 18:38
...I'm sorry Ralph... this is between me and Kirk.

Please...you have made it public, please stop. Thank you.

Vaughn

Oh! And Merry Christmas to all!

Tim Meisburger
24-Dec-2014, 18:42
Bill, its proof that you are old that you laugh at that. My kids call it "Dad humor".

On the issue, I use my real name (you can google me) because its my name, but I definitely believe that using my real name moderates my behaviour. I still work for a living, and know that what I say here is available to anyone in the world. I also believe that, on average, people that hide their name are ruder than those that don't. That is not at all to say everyone is like that--some who use their real name are rude, and most who don't are still perfect gentlemen--but I do think that those who hide their name are slightly more likely to be rude.

We should also differentiate between those who actually try to hide their identity and those who merely use a screen name (Gandolfi, for example, who we all know as Emil). Many people with screen names also list their website, or have their real name in their profile, so they are not really anonymous.

Also, Merry Christmas to all! Its Christmas morn in Indonesia, and I have already shot two landscapes in black and white and two flowers with Velvia 100!

Bill_1856
24-Dec-2014, 20:04
Kirk... we didn't like each other... and I was banned... right? Oops... I'm in trouble now......

Frank -- is that you?

StoneNYC
24-Dec-2014, 21:12
Bethe, there is some really nice work on your site BTW.

Who's Bethe?? I don't see anyone posting we Bethe (sarcasm).


I use a nickname here and nearly everywhere else on the web (all the photography-related sites I visit anyway). I don't think that has anything to do with any of my questions or answers regarding photography.

What's a winger?

jnanian
24-Dec-2014, 21:18
i'm actually an afghan wolfhound .. shhh..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Internet,_nobody_knows_you're_a_dog

mdarnton
24-Dec-2014, 22:34
A surprising amount of this discussion is invisible to me.

Richard Johnson
24-Dec-2014, 23:34
This is an alias, my real name is XHZ395

Old-N-Feeble
25-Dec-2014, 09:17
My apologies to everyone. I failed to recognize when I should stop posting. If this happens again I'm going to request I not be allowed to post anymore.

My name is Mike, and I'm a brain-damaged jerk.

BrianShaw
25-Dec-2014, 09:43
I'm speechless; at a loss for words. Yes, that is my reeel name.

Greg Davis
25-Dec-2014, 11:14
When I started my account I was under the impression I had to use a monicker of some sort. I may have assumed I couldn't have spaces between my first and last name, so used my ebay name. I have since changed it on apug, but I can't seem to get it changed here. I prefer people know who they are talking to when they respond to me. I am, after all, a real person and not a computer bot.

Randy Moe
25-Dec-2014, 11:32
When I started my account I was under the impression I had to use a monicker of some sort. I may have assumed I couldn't have spaces between my first and last name, so used my ebay name. I have since changed it on apug, but I can't seem to get it changed here. I prefer people know who they are talking to when they respond to me. I am, after all, a real person and not a computer bot.

LOL, but look at your face! Hiding behind a LF camera, how appropriate!

I do think many with bot names do reveal their real identities and locations over time. Some may have good reasons for hiding, but I hope not many. Perhaps they have political reasons!

Greg Davis
25-Dec-2014, 12:19
I have two pet peeves:
-making lists
-irony

I said I don't mind people knowing my real name, I never said I want them to be able pick me out of a line up.

Randy Moe
25-Dec-2014, 12:39
I have two pet peeves:
-making lists
-irony

I said I don't mind people knowing my real name, I never said I want them to be able pick me out of a line up.

I was kidding.:) I don't care what you look like.

I like the camera head!

rdenney
25-Dec-2014, 13:41
When I started my account I was under the impression I had to use a monicker of some sort. I may have assumed I couldn't have spaces between my first and last name, so used my ebay name. I have since changed it on apug, but I can't seem to get it changed here. I prefer people know who they are talking to when they respond to me. I am, after all, a real person and not a computer bot.

Report the post you wrote with a request to change your user name, and one of us will take care of it and confirm by email.

Rick "merry Christmas" Denney

Winger
25-Dec-2014, 15:00
Bethe, there is some really nice work on your site BTW.

Thank you very much, Kirk! That means a lot!


Oh, and my nickname IRL has been Winger for a long time. My middle name is Wing (it's a family name thing) and I'm quite proud of it (early settlers in MA).

analoguey
25-Dec-2014, 21:37
The OP's Confusing Causation and correlation.

There's no obnoxious 'switch' that gets turned on with anonymity! A person who is otherwise a great human being, good to all, suddenly gets anonymity and is now an (abusive) boor?

Pawlowski6132
26-Dec-2014, 09:24
I dont think internet anonymity is a crutch. I think it is more like truth serum. Like alcohol. We get to see what people are REALLY like. Usually, face-to-face or, when someone knows who you are, people are either too polite or afraid of confrontation to tell you what they REALLY think or how they REALLY feel. It's all fake.

jnanian
26-Dec-2014, 10:28
in the 20-something years i have been on the internet
i have seen some weird stuff ... not just this forum ...

i have seen 45-50year olds make believe they were kids, women take men's names
( and visa versa ) so people would cut them some slack, and i have seen people
who use their real name/s who from time to time cause trouble &c.
i think people are just people and i don't think there is any correlation at all between good / bad behavior
and real / fake names...

probably the 1 in 10 rule applies. if you have ever worked retail
you probably know that about 1 in every 10 customers can be a "problem"
1 in 10 people using fake or real names can have a bad day too ... not much of a difference ...
people have stuff going on in "real life" it bleeds into their online persona whether
it is their real name or something else ...

djdister
26-Dec-2014, 16:05
A sampling of other voices on this subject:

Online disinhibition effect: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect
Anonymity and the Dark Side of the Internet: http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/03/anonymity-and-the-dark-side-of-the-internet/?_r=0
The Dark Side of Web Anonymity: http://www.businessweek.com/stories/2008-04-30/the-dark-side-of-web-anonymity
Anonymity of internet to blame for rise of online trolls:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/internet/10242703/Anonymity-of-internet-to-blame-for-rise-of-online-trolls.html
How the internet created an age of rage:http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/jul/24/internet-anonymity-trolling-tim-adams
Does the Anonymity of the Internet Allow People to be Meaner?:http://www.wisegeek.com/does-the-anonymity-of-the-internet-allow-people-to-be-meaner.htm
Cowards who abuse free speech hiding behind anonymity of internet:http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/columnists/matt-cooper/cowards-who-abuse-free-speech-hiding-behind-anonymity-of-internet-181733.html
The Offensive Internet:http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674050891
etc, etc...

Pawlowski6132
26-Dec-2014, 17:39
A sampling of other voices on this subject:

Online disinhibition effect: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect
Anonymity and the Dark Side of the Internet: http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/03/anonymity-and-the-dark-side-of-the-internet/?_r=0
The Dark Side of Web Anonymity: http://www.businessweek.com/stories/2008-04-30/the-dark-side-of-web-anonymity
Anonymity of internet to blame for rise of online trolls:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/internet/10242703/Anonymity-of-internet-to-blame-for-rise-of-online-trolls.html
How the internet created an age of rage:http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/jul/24/internet-anonymity-trolling-tim-adams
Does the Anonymity of the Internet Allow People to be Meaner?:http://www.wisegeek.com/does-the-anonymity-of-the-internet-allow-people-to-be-meaner.htm
Cowards who abuse free speech hiding behind anonymity of internet:http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/columnists/matt-cooper/cowards-who-abuse-free-speech-hiding-behind-anonymity-of-internet-181733.html
The Offensive Internet:http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674050891
etc, etc...

Seems like one voice.

Sal Santamaura
26-Dec-2014, 17:59
Seems like one voice.How so? Except for a couple with no attribution, they all have different authors.

Pawlowski6132
26-Dec-2014, 18:09
How so? Except for a couple with no attribution, they all have different authors.

They are all saying the same thing: People are "hiding" behind the anonymity of the internet.

Which, I think is the wrong way to look at it.

Greg Miller
26-Dec-2014, 19:02
Different usages of the word voice. I think it's valid to say there were multiple voices all expressing the same conclusion.

I think it is pretty obvious that some people posting anonymously feel free to write harsh things, knowing that no-one searching the Internet using their real name will find those comments. Those people posting using their real names know that anyone searching the Internet using their real name can discover their posts here. So they tend not to post comments that mi th t reflect poorly on their character.

But more importantly to me, many statements of opinion, and sometimes fact are reinforced or defaulted by being able to lookup up a person's background and experience (or lack thereof). I tend to disregard comments made anonymously because there is no way to see if that person is qualified to render the opinion.

Jac@stafford.net
26-Dec-2014, 19:16
How so? Except for a couple with no attribution, they all have different authors.

Not one voice, but the 'sample' seems biased to find bad things about anonymity on the 'net. When I toss out a Google search I get entirely different results. Could it be that Google Search is so smart from following my search interests that it focuses less on 'news' and more on scholarly or nonconformist or contrary, non-mainstream sources?

Never mind the data: we cannot tell from the sample what the case is. It cannot be simply pro/con; interconnections, new questions must be raised.
.

Eric Rose
26-Dec-2014, 21:24
I use a fake name. My real name is Al Gore and I invented large format photography.

StoneNYC
26-Dec-2014, 21:56
I use a fake name. My real name is Al Gore and I invented large format photography.

Don't embellish, you only invented Ansel Adams career...

rdenney
26-Dec-2014, 22:21
Okay, folks, I think we covered this topic.

Rick "let's move on to the next one" Denney