Recommendations for large format A3 scanner to scan 11x14 prints

[Larry Kellogg]

I'm looking for a scanner to scan 11x14 prints so that I can create books in Blurb. I do all of my printing in the darkroom and will not be using the scanner to scan film. I don't want to spend a lot of money on the scanner, but I do want something that is reliable. I'm thinking of a used Epson GT-20000, which might be had around $500, but I'm open to suggestions.

I use a Mac, by the way, so I want a scanner that works well with a Mac.

Flatbed scanners that scan A3 are huge. Could I get decent quality out of a bar type scanner?

[Evanjoe610]

Larry,

I would recommend for a New scanner. That way you do not have to deal with any legacy issues.
I suggest the large format Epson scanner...


http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/jsp/ProductCategory.do?BV_UseBVCookie=yes&oid=-16224


Evan



I'm looking for a scanner to scan 11x14 prints so that I can create books in Blurb. I do all of my printing in the darkroom and will not be using the scanner to scan film. I don't want to spend a lot of money on the scanner, but I do want something that is reliable. I'm thinking of a used Epson GT-20000, which might be had around $500, but I'm open to suggestions.

I use a Mac, by the way, so I want a scanner that works well with a Mac.

Flatbed scanners that scan A3 are huge. Could I get decent quality out of a bar type scanner?

[Light Guru]

The discontinued printer you listed has drivers available for the Mac OS 10.10 Yosemite, so there are no legacy issues at this time.

Have you considered getting a cheeper smaller scanner and scanning the 11x14 print in sections. Then you use photoshop to automatically merge them into a complete image.

[Larry Kellogg]

Thanks Light Guru, but I know I will not scan if I have to stitch. It's just an annoyance that I do not want to deal with, I already spend too much time on a computer every day, for my job.

Evan, that's a $2000-2500 scanner, not exactly affordable, LOL.

[djdister]

Thanks Light Guru, but I know I will not scan if I have to stitch. It's just an annoyance that I do not want to deal with, I already spend too much time on a computer every day, for my job.

Evan, that's a $2000-2500 scanner, not exactly affordable, LOL.

Why buy a flatbed scanner at all? There are those who say you should shoot it with a good digital camera, especially large prints like that.

[Light Guru]

Thanks Light Guru, but I know I will not scan if I have to stitch. It's just an annoyance that I do not want to deal with, I already spend too much time on a computer every day, for my job.

Photoshop will automatically stitch it together in like a minute, so saying it will take to long is hardly an excuse.

[Larry Kellogg]

I knew that was coming. ;-) I think it is easier and faster to scan than to shoot with a digital copy stand and have to deal with reflections. Besides, I sold all my digital cameras. The only digital camera I own is an iPhone.

[Larry Kellogg]

For those following along, I bought an Epson 10000 XL to use to scan my prints. Although the scanner is discontinued, it has gotten good reviews on this page:

http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/jsp/Product/UserReviews.do?BV_UseBVCookie=yes&sku=E10000XL-PH

As far as I can tell, I'll be able to download drivers for the latest version of the Mac operating system.

Any thoughts? The scanner has a reflective mode which I would us win scanning my RC prints, I assume.

[Carl J]

Works well for scanning 11x14 negatives. I use the EpsonScan software with OS X Mavericks, I believe (it's at work). I didn't know it had been discontinued. I think Epson driver support is pretty good and hopefully will continue to be available and compatible with the latest OS X versions for awhile.

[richardman]

I have a 10000XL mainly to scan my Chinese calligraphy work :-) Works great. Just out of curiosity, how much did you pay? I am considering selling mine, actually.

[Larry Kellogg]

Epson came with the 11000 which some reviews say is identical to the 10000, and even lacking a few features.

Driver support is the big problem with scanners, hopefully I can keep this one running on my Mac if the 11000 uses the same drivers.

Do I need Silverfast which is expensive or can I get away with EpsonScan? I doubt my used one will come with SilverFast although it shipped with the scanner originally.

I paid $770 plus $20 shipping on that auction site. Prices are all over the map from $600-$1400. Now you tell me you want to sell, richardman. I'll see if the one I bought works ok, if not, I can return it. I'd be interested in yours if that were the case. Mine does not have the transparency unit, but I only want to scan finished prints.

[Deval]

I think the 10-11000 has autofocus for the film plane...That alone is worth it...I scanned a few images on the flatbed and it was amazing how sharp the images came out with standard epson scan. I still am calibrating the betterscanning holder to no avail...

[Larry Kellogg]

So, the monster scanner showed up yesterday. I guess I'll upgrade to Yosemite before trying out the scanner. Thoughts?

[tuco]

Scanning prints from negatives means a 3rd generation image.

[djdister]

Scanning prints from negatives means a 3rd generation image.

A scan from a negative would be second generation, a scan from a print would be third generation.

[Larry Kellogg]

My plan is to use the scanner to make small books, I think I'll be fine scanning 11x14 prints. I'll make silver gelatin prints for exhibition and sale.

[Larry Kellogg]

Do you think I'll have problems because the scans will be third generation?

[Larry Kellogg]

I just scanned my first 11x14 RC print, in reflective mode, 300 dpi, with the Epson Scan Utility, and all I can say is "Wow!". This is going to be a great way of creating a book. Books have always been created by scanning finished prints, as fas as I know. I know someone who is about to embark on creating 16x20 prints for a book, I don't know what kind of scanner they use for those, some expensive drug scanner, I guess.

This Epson 10000 XL is going to be perfect for my requirements of creating small books based on my 11x14 RC or fibre prints.

[richardman]

Photo books are definitely not all done with scanned prints. Where did you read/hear that?

[Larry Kellogg]

I meant traditional photo books, before digital photography.. I consider copy cameras to also be scanners.

What other process do you have in mind?

[djdister]

I meant traditional photo books, before digital photography.. I consider copy cameras to also be scanners.

What other process do you have in mind?

Wrong on three fronts:

A copy scanner is an optical process, not a digital process, and more importantly,

A copy camera is not used for photolithography, the process by which high quality photo books are (were) made,

A copy camera is used to make a conventional negative of a print, if you don't have one available.

[Larry Kellogg]

Somehow a print is used as the source and is transferred to a plate, no? That's all I was trying to say. If this not true, then my friend is wasting his time producing the final prints for a book, and he's worked on a lot of books.

It would be great if you could explain photolithography in three sentences. :-) The Wikipedia entry is quite long.

Yes, a copy camera creates a negative from artwork when you don't have a negative. Sorry I mentioned that, I was wrong.

[Ron McElroy]

Larry you are not mistaken about the use of copy cameras in the offset printing process. Reflective work would be shot on them creating either line work negatives or screened halftone images. Halftones would include B/W, duo-tone and even 4/color separations. The film produced from the camera work would then be assembled into composite film or plating flats that would be used to burn the printing plates.

[Jim Andrada]

I remember when we would paste up a page with text and photos adhered to a board (pasteboard) and photograph the whole page with a big process camera on lith film that had the halftone dot pattern built in. Kodak made a big deal out of using elliptical dots so you didn't get a sudden perceived jump in density around 50% when the dots suddenly touched

[Ron McElroy]

We still use elliptical dots at work. They help smooth skin tones. I never used the film with preflashed halftone dots.

[Larry Kellogg]

Thanks Ron, I feel like less of an idiot now. ;-) I mean, I haven't done the old type of printing, but I kind of have the workflow in my head. How does one burn a printing plate?

Along those lines, I've started another thread on printing black and white photographs, and have come to the realization that I can experiment with duotone by using two photopolymer plates, one for black, and one for, say, Pantone 11 Gray. The thread is here: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?119295-Black-and-White-book-printing-what-is-the-best-quality-option/page6

Feel free to join in.

I talked my ideas over with someone at a letterpress place and they said that duotone were not letterpress's strength, but that it can be done, and that it works best for high contrast photographs. Anyway, I'll add more information on the other thread.

[djdister]

Thanks Ron, I feel like less of an idiot now. ;-) I mean, I haven't done the old type of printing, but I kind of have the workflow in my head. How does one burn a printing plate?


In my old graphic arts days, we used NuArc plate burners with metal halide bulbs to burn plates for the offset press. Plate burners were much more intense than the UV exposure boxes used for alternative process work.

[Larry Kellogg]

In my old graphic arts days, we used NuArc plate burners with metal halide bulbs to burn plates for the offset press. Plate burners were much more intense than the UV exposure boxes used for alternative process work.

Interesting. So, were the plates made out of metal? How were the plates processed after burning? These days, maybe I can pick up a plate burner for $50, LOL.

It's cool that you worked on a foot operated letterpress. I've operated hand cranked Vandercooks.

[Ron McElroy]

Dan is correct about the use of plate burners. Over the years I used several styles of burners from flip top to large step-and-repeat machines that burned plates for the folding carton printers. All of these used either a 5KW UV light source or even in one shop we used old carbon arc lamps.

Most plates are aluminum that I worked with, but there are some plastic and paper plates as well. Processing usually required a plate processor that worked only with a specific type of plate. The basic process is one of developing the image, washing off the removed coating and the coating the plate with gum to seal the surface of the plate. Currently we are using Heidelberg's chem free plates that use no developer in the processor. The gum washes off the coating as well as finishes the plate with gum. These plates, as well as different ones for many years now, are imaged by laser plate setting equipment and in our shop the processor is in line with the plate setter so it is an automated process.

As far as duotones on a letterpress I think the primary problem would be the inks. I don't think that are transparent enough to control the trapping issues involved.
I used a Vandercook press once in a bookmaking workshop. It was fun and reminded me of printmaking classes back in school.
A friend has a 1909 Chandler and Price treddle powered press.

[djdister]

Interesting. So, were the plates made out of metal? How were the plates processed after burning? These days, maybe I can pick up a plate burner for $50, LOL.


We used both metal and paper plates. I can't remember how we processed the plates, other than manually wiping some fluid over the surface of the plates. The metal ones lasted longer, and of course cost more. In High School we never did 4 color offset work because that was too challenging for a bunch of kids, but we did two-color offset jobs for the school.

I thought the letterpress was more fun and created nicer graphics, but we never did photos or halftones on the letterpress, only on the offset press.

[Larry Kellogg]

Dan is correct about the use of plate burners. Over the years I used several styles of burners from flip top to large step-and-repeat machines that burned plates for the folding carton printers. All of these used either a 5KW UV light source or even in one shop we used old carbon arc lamps.

Most plates are aluminum that I worked with, but there are some plastic and paper plates as well. Processing usually required a plate processor that worked only with a specific type of plate. The basic process is one of developing the image, washing off the removed coating and the coating the plate with gum to seal the surface of the plate. Currently we are using Heidelberg's chem free plates that use no developer in the processor. The gum washes off the coating as well as finishes the plate with gum. These plates, as well as different ones for many years now, are imaged by laser plate setting equipment and in our shop the processor is in line with the plate setter so it is an automated process.

As far as duotones on a letterpress I think the primary problem would be the inks. I don't think that are transparent enough to control the trapping issues involved.
I used a Vandercook press once in a bookmaking workshop. It was fun and reminded me of printmaking classes back in school.
A friend has a 1909 Chandler and Price treddle powered press.

It's terrific to hear from people who know about all this printing stuff! Thanks a lot for the information. I'm intrigued, and have so much to learn.

As for inks, well, here are my choices of letterpress inks:

https://www.boxcarpress.com/choosing-letterpress-ink/

They'll mix a custom color for me, so I was going to try Pantone 11 Gray with a black. Can you recommend any inks from the webpage? I'm not sure how to know if an ink is transparent enough to control the trapping issues. What is a trapping issue? LOL.

Vandercooks are proof presses, meant to do small runs, I guess. I've seen photographs labeled as "letterpress duotone", so they must have been done somehow on a letterpress. I don't suppose there are going to be any DIY rent by the hour offset printers in NYC.

[Ron McElroy]

It's terrific to hear from people who know about all this printing stuff! Thanks a lot for the information. I'm intrigued, and have so much to learn.

As for inks, well, here are my choices of letterpress inks:

https://www.boxcarpress.com/choosing-letterpress-ink/

They'll mix a custom color for me, so I was going to try Pantone 11 Gray with a black. Can you recommend any inks from the webpage? I'm not sure how to know if an ink is transparent enough to control the trapping issues. What is a trapping issue? LOL.

Vandercooks are proof presses, meant to do small runs, I guess. I've seen photographs labeled as "letterpress duotone", so they must have been done somehow on a letterpress. I don't suppose there are going to be any DIY rent by the hour offset printers in NYC.

I do not have any idea on what type of ink to recommend for letterpress printing. The fellow that owns the Vandercook press moved to New Orleans and we have lost touch. My friend with the Chandler press uses Daniel Smith relief printing inks because she also does lino cut block prints as well (not printed on the letterpress).

Trapping of inks refers to the overlap of the different colors of ink. The halftone dots will overlap to create a third color because of the transparent nature of the ink. You are correct about the design intent of the Vandercook presses. They were used to proof jobs in the days before proofing systems came along so there should be a way to print screened images on them.

Perhaps you should talk with someone from a letterpress shop and see what they say.