receiving consistantly soft images

[brian steinberger]

I've just gotten started in large format photography. I was using a Crown Graphic that a friend let me borrow. But I recently bought a Toyo 45CF.

All the images that I have taken, both with the Graphic and the Toyo have come back just slightly soft. I've taken all the images with a Calter 90/8 lens. I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong. I'm using a loupe when focusing. It's actually the same loupe that I use on the light table. And when I receive my transparencies back, they are all slightly soft evenly throughout the image while viewing through a 4x loupe.

The lens has had a Tiffen Haze-1 filter on for every shot. Could that be it? I need help! I shouldn't expect perfect images right away when entering new format, but it is frustrating. Thanks

brian

[Ralph Barker]

Hmmm. Sounds like you need to do a little detective work, Brian, as there are a variety of things that might be causing the problem. First, what aperture are you typically shooting at? If using a too-small aperture, diffraction might be reducing image sharpness. If not, I'd check the lens with a penlight to make sure you don't have a problem. You might, for example, have a smudge on the interior element facing the shutter that went un-noticed when you changed lens boards. Also, make sure the front and rear elements of the lens are screwed all the way into the shutter assembly. Likewise, check the filter for surface abbrasions that might be acting like a soft-focus filter.

If the physical inspection doesn't turn up anything, I'd suggest doing some controlled testing to make sure the actual focus plane is where you think it is. One way to do this is to set up a test scene with yardsticks extending toward the lens at an angle, but so you can still read the markings. Mark your focus point in some way - perhaps taping a toothpick across the yardstick to designate your point of focus. After the film is developed, see if the actual point of focus is where you placed it.

[Jim Rice]

Hi Brian,
What comes immeadiately to mind is a misaligned ground glass. The test is pretty straightforward. Take a yardstick (a Meter stick with mm graduations is better) and position it at a 45 degree angle to the film. Focus on some point toward the middle and take a photograph of it. Focus carefully and take a loupe to the resulting negative. It will tell you a lot.

[darter]

Don't rule out subtle vibration induced by a lightweight tripod and/or head. Barry Thornton did some interesting work on this problem and found that lightweight tripods caused as much softness as handholding a camera, under some circumstances. You can easily test this by extending the tripod as little as possible, or putting the camera directly onto a solid platform. Good luck.

[Steve Hamley]

You're not using the "Hyperfocal nothing is in sharp focus method" are you?

Steve

[Isaac Crawford]

The first thing I would look into is the camera support. In my experience it is the part of the equation that photographers give the least amount of thought to, and is certainly overlooked . Try borrowing a heavier, more sturdy tripod and comparing the images.

Isaac

[Stephen Hall]

On the ground glass alignment - make sure the glass is in the right way around.
I once removed the ground glass to clean it and replaced it the wrong way around.
All my shots were subtly off for days afterwards.
Also check the dark slide is sitting properly in the back and that the camera back is attatched correctly.
Stephen

[Frank Petronio]

Emulsion side towards the lens!

Seriously, if the camera came from the factory with the ground glass installed, it is probably OK. Check all the obvious things first, like loading the film holder properly.

Maybe you could find a more experienced photographer to observe your technique... Try a Polaroid (borrow, don't buy) and see if you can get a sharp Polaroid with an easy to focus on subject.

[David A. Goldfarb]

If you test with Polaroid, use type 55 and check the neg with a loupe. Polaroid print media tend to be a little unreliable as far as sharpness is concerned.

In addition to the other suggestions, if you have a focusable loupe, be sure it is focused on the ground side of the glass. Remove the lensboard, point the camera toward an evenly lit surface or open sky, and focus the loupe so that the matte side of the glass is sharp.

Be sure that everything is locked down before inserting the filmholder, and that you're not somehow moving the camera at this stage.

Regarding camera vibration, be sure your cable release is slack and is of sufficient length, because this can also be an issue.

[Gem Singer]

Hi Brian,

First, I suggest that you take that haze filter off of your lens. That type of filter in front of a LF lens is not really necessary, unless you are attempting to protect your lens from blowing sand or dust.
Second, try shooting with a different lens, preferably a 135, or a 150, and check to see if the same problem arises. I'll bet it doesn't. Finally, if the problem fails to show up with the different lens, send your Caltar 90 lens to the repair shop. If it still shows up when using a different lens, send your Toyo 45CF camera back to Mamiya America.

[Brian Ellis]

The first and most basic question to ask is whether the owner of the Crown Graphic makes sharp photographs with that camera and the same lens, cable release, film holders, filter, and tripod that you used when you were using his or her Crown Graphic and got soft photographs? In other words, did you borrow only the camera or was the whole set up the one he or she uses? If he or she gets sharp photographs with all the same equipment you used when you got soft photographs with the Crown Graphic then you can eliminate equipment as the source of tyour problem and instead there's something wrong with your technique. Are your soft photographs made while using camera movements? If so, maybe you aren't using the movements correctly. You are using a cable release, right? Take off the filter and see what happens. If you're using the hyperfocal distance method of getting soft photographs forget it and do some reading here about how to focus a view camera (a good idea even if you're not using hyperfocal distance).

If some of the equipment (besides the camera) you're now using isn't the same equipment your friend uses then concentrate on that equipment as the possible source of the problem. It's unlikely to be a problem with the ground glass or anything else related to the camera because you had the problem with two different cameras, one of which presumably was purchased new and the other of which your friend uses and presumably gets sharp photographs. The tripod is a possible culprit if that's different, your film holders are possible culprits if they are different , etc. Basically just concentrate on whatever equipment you're using that is different from what your friend uses besides the camera itself (assuming of course that your friend is able to make sharp photographs). And as others have suggested, remove the filter. .

[Dave Moeller]

Brian-

I'm going to guess that the ground glass isn't the problem for two reasons. First, you've gotten the same results on two different cameras and it would surprise me if two cameras both had GG that were out of alignment (although this is certaily possible, it's not too common), and second I'd be surprised if your friend wouldn't have noticed all of the images from his/her camera are soft. But just in case, have you looked at any of your friends films from his/her camera to see if they're soft? This might tell you something (basically, that it really could be the GG or that the loupe you're using to evaluate the film on the light table isn't focusing properly on the film).

You haven't said whether the lens belongs to you or your friend. If it belongs to your friend and he/she has managed to take sharp pictures with it in the past, I can see four possibilities.

1. It could be the lens. Something could have happened to it, like a drop to the ground or a loosening of the elements. You might ask your friend to shoot a frame using this lens to see what he/she gets. You might find out if your friend has a different lens that you could borrow for one or two shots just to see what you get. Check to make sure the elements on the lens are screwed in all of the way. Also, check the lens and filter for obvious fingerprints or other smudges on the glass.

2. It could be the tripod. A too-light tripod, especially if you're shooting on a breezy day, can make it impossible to get a sharp image. You can check this pretty easily by setting the camera up on a sturdy table and shooting something either indoors or through a window (although bear in mind that a window or a window screen will introduce problems with sharpness, as will vibrations carried to the camera through the table by things like kids running around or pets jumping onto the table). Make sure things are pretty still while you expose your film (including not walking around while the shutter is open).

3. The film holder...you didn't tell us what you're using, and whether it is a film holder that belongs to you or to your friend. If your friend can get sharp images using the same lens but using his/her own film holder while you get soft images using your own film holder, your film holder might not be holding the film at the focus plane.

4. It could be operator error. Are you locking everything down on the camera and on the tripod head before you insert the film holder? Are you sure the camera isn't moving when you insert the film holder, when you remove the dark slide, and when you trip the shutter?

If you can borrow both your friend and his/her equipment for a few hours, it should be pretty easy to eliminate these possibilities one at a time. Whach your friends technique to see if you're doing anything differently, especially if your friend has films that are sharp using the same lens. Ask you friend if you can use his/her film holder. Try a different lens. Try his/her tripod. Just make sure you take copius notes so that you can evaluate the results that you get back. I'm sure you'll figure out what's going on with a small investment in time and money.

LF is capable of producing films that are so sharp as to be amazing. Figure out what's wrong today, and you'll be stunned by what you can shoot tomorrow.

[Joe Smigiel]

Brian,

Two things come to mind that haven't been mentioned yet. First, the lens may be shifting focus from viewing the groundglass with the lens wide open and then stopping down to the taking aperture. I'm not sure if that Caltar is a lens design that does this, but it may be worth investigating. Second, and in all seriousness, perhaps it is time for a trip to the eye doctor.

The culprit may also be the loupe. I find loupes difficult to use on a groundglass and have fallen back on just focusing without one when using the view camera.

[Frank Petronio]

A Caltar 90/8 probably won't exhibit focus shift when stopping down. Also, unless the lens is really filthy, it should still be sharp. Look for the gross, easy answers first. Find another photographer, see if you can get a sharp photo with their equipment. Try shooing with the camera solidly set on the ground (to eliminate the tripod issue.)

Are you shooting into the sun and just getting flare?

[brian steinberger]

First of all, thank you guys so much for so many quick responses to my question! I really appreciate all the help!

I'll clearify some things thatyou guys were wondering about. I shoot all landscape photography. The images that I've taken so far we used with no camera movements besides rise. I'm using all riteway film holders which are in very good condition and I am loading the film correctly. My exposures are perfect, I'm proud of that! I'm using a cable release and shooting from a very sturdy Gitzo 1340 tripod. The only thing that worries me is that I'm still using the same ballhead from my 35mm shooting days, which is a Bogen 488 quick release. It's not a huge ballhead. Maybe sometimes when I'm inserting the filmholder the camera is moving slightly because of the small ballhead? I've shot all my shots at f/32 and f/45. I haven't shot any yet at a wider aperture. So that might be a problem too. Shutter speeds have been between 1 - 16 seconds.

When my friend first took me out a few months ago, I took a shot with his Toyo 45CF and at the time, his Calter 90/8. Some of the images that I recieved back were sharp. I recently bought the Calter 90/8 lens from him and bought a Toyo 45CF used from Charolette Camera in NC. I believe it was the floor display model. But I saved $100.

The loupe I'm using is a Jobo 4x loupe. I know that it's set for my eyes, cause when I view my 35mm and 6x7 stuff, it's very sharp.

I'm not using hyperfocal distance charts. I've always had issues years back in 35mm with not being able to choose the proper plane of focus for sharpness all the way through a landscape image. I've overcome that, but I think that maybe it's happening again in large format because of the inverted image and darkness of an f/8 lens.

I hope this helps you guys diagnos more problems. I took the filter off yesterday and took 6 shots without the filter. We'll see how those come back. And also, I'll check the lens today for smudges, as well as tightness to the lensboard. I appreciate all you guys help! You'll see me in here alot. Thanks!

Brian

[Dave Moeller]

Brian-

My money's on the camera moving slightly when you're inserting the film holder or when you're removing the dark slide. I don't know anything about Gitzo tripods, but perhaps you can remove the ball head and just mount the camera directly to the tripod to see if you get sharp images that way. If so, then a bigger ball head (or a solid pan head) should solve your problems.

I have a Berlebach tripod with an integral ballhead, and my 8x10 Calumet C1 ("The Green Monster") doesn't budge when I insert a film holder or remove the dark slide. A good, solid tripod and head are very important in LF.

Good luck!

[Ralph Barker]

Brian - a couple of follow-up thoughts.

Originally, you mentioned that shots from both the Crown Graphic and the Toyo were soft. That would suggest the problem might be something that is in common to how both cameras were being used: the lens, aperture setting, loupe, focusing method, or tripod. But, you also now mention that "some" of the shots originally done with your friend's 45CF and the Caltar 90 were sharp, but I'm assuming that some were also soft (?).

At f/32 and f/45, you're edging into diffraction territory, but I'm not sure how sensitive the 90mm lens is to image degradation from diffraction. With exposures in the 1-16 second range, however, there is much more potential for camera shake during the exposure - particularly if the ball head is "marginal" for the weight of the camera. Depending on the conditions under which you were shooting (e.g. dead calm vs. windy), however, I'd expect to see some variation in image sharpness if the problem was camera-shake related, unless those conditions were consistent across all of the exposures.

Also, while it is possible that you might be moving the whole camera when inserting the film holder, it's not likely that would affect focus too much (more likely it would change composition) - unless the rear standard wasn't locked down. Or, unless something was preventing the film holder to seat properly. In the latter case, however, I'd expect to see problems from light leakage around the holder.

I'm not familiar with the Jobo loupe, but if it is sharply focused when sitting on top of film on your light box, the GG image should actually be slightly out of focus (by the difference of the thickness of the GG glass [the etched surface of which should be on the side facing the lens]).

You probably need to examine your negatives more closely to determine if anything in the image is sharp (regardless of where you're focussing, something within the image should be sharp), and then do some controlled tests to narrow down the source of the problem.

[Bill_1856]

You need to do the usual test of photographing a ruler up close at an angle with the lens wide open to see if the whole system is in focus or not.

[brian steinberger]

Yesterday I photographed a yard stick to to try and diagnos a problem. I'll post the results in here in about a week when I see the results. Thanks again everyone!!

Brian

[JIM PASSI]

THE FIRST THING I WOULD DO IS
TAKE FILTER OFF & LOOK THROUGHT IT IS IT CLEAR OR NOT
NEXT IS THE SPRING BACK TITE TO THE CAMERA IT SHOULD BE
IS YOUR GROUND GLASS BACK WARDS [THE GROUND SHOULD BE TWARDS THE CAMERA ]
IS THE LEN'S ELLEMENTS TITE OR MAYBE ONE IS BACKWARDS
DO YOU NEED GLASSES
THATS ABOUT ALL I CAN THINK OF

[Lars Cousineau]

I haven't read all the responses in depth, but has anyone raised the question of your film holders and the depth of the film plane from the back of the camera in relation to the measurement of the ground glass.

Since you are getting the same problem with two cameras, it sounds suspiciously like you are transferring the problem with something you are using in both cases. What if the ground glass on both cameras is appropriate, but you are using substandard or unusual film holders. That would surely explain the problem. I have experienced the problem of reversed ground glass and encountered the soft focus. The same thing would happen if the reference measurement changed because of a deeper, or shallower film holder.

Nickels Worth

[brian steinberger]

I just got the transparencies back yesterday of the yardstick, along with other ones that I have taken since I've posted this question. The images of the yardstick we sharp right on the toothpick in all photos. I took a few with the ballhead, and a few without the ball head (camera mounted right to tripod). So I think it might have been the filter, or me moving the camera while inserting the film holder, and or removing dark slide, or me not taking enough time in focusing. I'm still working on receiving sharp images all throughout a scene, but atleast I know where my point of focus is now. Thanks again everyone!