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View Full Version : Preventing foreign buyers on Ebay - good luck



goamules
17-Dec-2014, 14:03
Rant time. I seldom sell on ebay anymore. It's too risky to sell globally to countries that cannot read my auction requirements, understand shipping delays, import taxes, etc. They want the item, but don't want to pay for it.

But this week I decided to open up my chances for profit, and sell globally. But NOT to CHINA! I eliminated that country for this sale (other times I will sell to China, just not always). Just as last time, and the time before, all I got were questions (mostly in Chinese that I don't read) from Chinese bidders demanding to know why. I got bids from Brazil, Israel, and several other high-risk shipping locations. Near the end, I got a bidder war from a new bidder....get this....in CHINA! I don't know how he got in and was able to bid. Again, I turned off that country. I looked him up, 10 or so buys, since July. But they were photography related, and he left others good feedback. So I let him remain. I did write him two days before the end, asking if he understood my terms, and that the shipping would be USPS Express, and expensive. No answer for 2 days. I let him ride, my finger on the "cancel bid" button several times.

Sure as $#it, he won! I got a ping asking "how much will shipping be to china?" I told him the cost, explained it was a good, fast service, and wished him luck on the lens. Just got this back:

"Dear friend, that is too expensive for me,and I heard that customs of chinese will take a terrorist taxes from me.
So,i am sorry,please cancel my bid.

best wish

Rocky from china

- 0-71920"

Of course now, I can't "cancel his bid" and have to talk Ebay into it, and hope he doesn't give me some wacko, chinese version of feedback revenge for my impertinence of having expensive shipping. And I wasted a week and a sale.

toyotadesigner
17-Dec-2014, 14:22
01: Because he cancelled the bid, he can't give you any feedback. But you are allowed to offer your item to the next highest bidder, no problem at all.

02: Next time make a PDF from your offer, with the clearly marked 'Not to China'. Send it to ebay customer service and insist on a statement.

03: I learned the hard way to never again offer anything outside of Europe. Items with a value higher than Euro 980 will be offered for sale only in Germany due to the high costs for the export certificates (around Euro 100 per item). The German tax department is a PITA.

04. Welcome to the absurd 'global village'...

Old-N-Feeble
17-Dec-2014, 14:26
I guess I've been lucky because I haven't had a single problem with Chinese buyers. As is the case with everything, I'm sure I eventually will. Hey... at least he/she asked to cancel the deal rather than having you ship the item to them and they file a claim in which case... you'd have to pay shipping BOTH ways.

vinny
17-Dec-2014, 14:29
Yup!
It takes all kinds.
I listed a large safe a couple years ago with a very clear LOCAL PICKUP ONLY in the shipping terms. Of course, a guy in Oregon buys it and says he won't pay unless I ship it. I don't think he liked the $1000 price I quoted him. I had to list in on Craigslist.

Jac@stafford.net
17-Dec-2014, 14:33
If you blocked China bids and someone got through, then take issue with eBay. Perhaps it will at least mitigate fees and complaints.

Some of my best sales have been to Chinese citizens, however through a broker or friend of theirs in the USA. My gosh, some pay crazy high prices for collectible cameras such as consecutive serial numbered early Leica M bodies with 'lucky' numbers. Bidder wars can be fun - for me. :)

DonJ
17-Dec-2014, 14:38
Rant time. I seldom sell on ebay anymore. It's too risky to sell globally to countries that cannot read my auction requirements, understand shipping delays, import taxes, etc. They want the item, but don't want to pay for it.

But this week I decided to open up my chances for profit, and sell globally. But NOT to CHINA! I eliminated that country for this sale (other times I will sell to China, just not always). Just as last time, and the time before, all I got were questions (mostly in Chinese that I don't read) from Chinese bidders demanding to know why. I got bids from Brazil, Israel, and several other high-risk shipping locations. Near the end, I got a bidder war from a new bidder....get this....in CHINA! I don't know how he got in and was able to bid. Again, I turned off that country. I looked him up, 10 or so buys, since July. But they were photography related, and he left others good feedback. So I let him remain. I did write him two days before the end, asking if he understood my terms, and that the shipping would be USPS Express, and expensive. No answer for 2 days. I let him ride, my finger on the "cancel bid" button several times. Sure as $#it, he won! I got a ping asking "how much will shipping be to china?" I told him the cost, explained it was a good, fast service, and wished him luck on the lens. Just got this back:

"Dear friend, that is too expensive for me,and I heard that customs of chinese will take a terrorist taxes from me.
So,i am sorry,please cancel my bid.

best wish

Rocky from china

- 0-71920"

Of course now, I can't "cancel his bid" and have to talk Ebay into it, and hope he doesn't give me some wacko, chinese version of feedback revenge for my impertinence of having expensive shipping. And I wasted a week and a sale.

A few thoughts:

1) There are two required settings for blocking international bidders. You must identify the countries you won't ship to, AND you must set the option to block bidders from countries you don't ship to. Have you done both? And a bidder can still get through if they provide a USA address as their primary address.

2) Instead of opening things up as you've done, you could include a note in the listing telling international bidders to contact you. If you're willing to let them bid, you can add them to your bidder exemption list.

3) You could also consider the Global Shipping Program, if your items are expensive enough for buyers to be willing to pay extra for that service. With the GSP, you have no responsibility beyond shipping the item to the eBay/Pitney Bowes shipping center in Kentucky.

4) You can send your winner a transaction cancellation request. If they agree, you get your fees back. If they do nothing, you close the request after 7 days and get your fees back. Just make sure you indicate that the reason for the request is "buyer changed mind".

5) You could switch to fixed price listings, with the "Immediate Payment Required" option, so you're guaranteed to get paid before the listing is considered officially ended. That also blocks people who don't have a PayPal account.

goamules
17-Dec-2014, 14:51
Just off the phone with Ebay. That was 45 min of my life I'll never get back.

They tried to get out of doing anything, telling me to "go to the resolution center and cancel it...blah". I said I tried, it failed with a warning "you must go to http://www.ebay.com.hk/ (hong kong) to cancel." She asked if I was willing to do that. I said heck no, I tried, it's ALL IN CHINESE!
So no, ebay, YOURE going to fix it.
She replied "I can't, there must be some glitch....how did he get in to your auction, did you state in your ad "not to China?"
No, I did as your rules state, I changed the SETTINGS NOT to allow any of asia.
Um...uh....well, I would just relist it.
What about getting bad feedback from this yahoo?
Well, I don't think that will happen
Can you guarantee that won't happen 5 months from now?
They can't leave feedback except for 90 days...
So I get to wait 90 days to see if my 16 year run of 100% feedback is ruined by some dork?

and so on and so on....for 45 min. I gave up.

Andrew O'Neill
17-Dec-2014, 15:04
You should see some of the yahoos I get on craigslist! At any rate, I've never sold anything to China, but have purchased items from there, with no problems... the only thing I noticed is they are rabid about leaving them feedback...

Shootar401
17-Dec-2014, 15:18
Ive given up on eBay for selling. And when I do I only sell and ship to the US, Canada, Germany and Croatia. Last year I stated in one of my auctions that I will not accept bids from or sell to people in muslim countries, Israel, Mexico, etc.. due to the high risk of scamming and personal reasons. A few times I sold an item to sometime who is/was registered on eBay in the US, but the shipping address on the PayPal was outside of the US. I refused to ship the item, refunded the $ and took the negative feedback. Keeping my 100% feedback is less important than getting taken by some shyster.

Now I'd rather sell on the Forums, here and other places then deal with ebay.

HMG
17-Dec-2014, 15:37
What you have is a non-paying buyer. What I would do is open a "case", close it as non-paying in the minimum time. Then you can relist it or offer it to the 2nd highest bidder. I believe that also protects you from negative feedback unless he actually goes through with the transaction.

Jim C.
17-Dec-2014, 16:06
Garrett, I'd chalk it up as experience if you get a neg feedback, personally I don't care any more about the feedback system on the Bay.
It was flawed from the beginning and now it's worse with the 90 day window.

It is interesting that the bidder was able to bid when China was on your exclusion list. Check your prefs on eBay, if I recall correctly
the exclusion list is not user friendly, if you checked all of Asia there is a drop down menu that allows some to be allowed.

Old-N-Feeble
17-Dec-2014, 16:27
There's a website that tells you how to protect yourself from Chinese buyer fraud but I can't remember where it is. I set my eBay options to the recommended settings and haven't had any problems... but I don't really know if that information was helpful or not.

Tim Meisburger
17-Dec-2014, 16:54
Sold a lens to a Chinese guy and used the money to buy an Ebony 45s. A couple weeks later he writes back saying the lens is not original because it doesn't match his friends version. The lens was made for decades and its clear to me and most reasonable people that his friend's is an earlier version and mine late, but I accept the lens back, refunding the money, and eating shipping fees both ways.

So, I ended up with the camera I wanted,. and the lens I regretted selling, all while avoiding domestic discordance (sorry honey, but what could I do). Heh heh heh...

goamules
17-Dec-2014, 17:25
You might like how I answered another one:


Dear him-in-china,

%^^&##$@?

- my ebay handle


From: him-in-china
To: my ebay handle
Subject: "my auction title"
Sent Date: Dec-13-14 18:53:09 PST

Dear my ebay handl,

为何不卖到中国?

- him-in-china

Jody_S
17-Dec-2014, 18:08
It helps to write your terms in simple, short sentences that auto - translate well. If you use flowery language for either terms or description, you'll have no end of misunderstandings and headaches. But I sell to China all the time with fewer problems than from USA buyers.

john borrelli
17-Dec-2014, 18:15
It has been a few years since I have sold extra photo equipment on ebay.

I would put a line in my ads that I was only selling to bidders within the US but I would get foreign bidders anyway. If they were the highest bidder I would tell them I am only shipping to US locations at this time. Most of the time they would accept this and I would offer the item to the next highest bidder. I remember one bidder from Italy who really wanted a 35mm macro lens so I sent it off to him. I figured he was a paisan so what could go wrong? I am not much of a businessman but luckily there were no issues with the transaction.

Corran
17-Dec-2014, 19:43
Sheesh. I have probably sold a dozen lenses to China, including a $2500 rarity. Nary a problem.

If you have such a problem with international, why not get with that "Global Shipping Program" or whatever eBay is doing now? Then it IS their problem.

goamules
17-Dec-2014, 19:44
Well I'll pay you a commission to sell mine! Actually, I've sold 10 or 20 to China too, it usually works out ok. But it's getting too risky.

Old-N-Feeble
17-Dec-2014, 19:45
I stated earlier that I've never had a problem selling to Chinese buyers but that's only mostly true. Most of them paid late but they did pay and didn't try any shenanigans.

hamradio
17-Dec-2014, 19:59
Interesting. I've never had a problem with my international dealings. Recently I moved a pile of cine lenses, nearly all of which went to Singapore, Japan, and I believe China. Some buyers even requested I use USPS Express (handled by EMS outside the US), as they didn't trust their country's post.

The only issue I really ran into was when a gentleman in Japan sent me a question asking if I'd combine shipping and avoid eBay's Global Program, and when he didn't hear back for an hour, went ahead and bought five lenses. He wanted me to sort out a refund on shipping; it was impossible, and I ended up just canceling the situation, refunding him, and then asking him to just send me money for the lot plus shipping. Whichever third party eBay farms out the Global Shipping Program to really dragged their feet on their end of his refund (~$90), taking weeks (and angry emails from him to me) before the situation was resolved.

Now, I just untick the Global Shipping Program box, as I view it as a scam for extracting a little more money from foreign buyers. I can throw the item in a USPS Express flat rate mailer for less money than it costs them, and get better/faster shipping (which gets my money freed up faster from PayPal). I just add my foreign shipping option as the price of a flat rate mailer, now.

That said, I've cut my eBay dealings dramatically in the past few months. I now sell in various Facebook groups. Really obscure/rare items don't move very quickly, but any popular/trendy gear sells right away, and I don't lose 10% to eBay. Works for me.

Old-N-Feeble
17-Dec-2014, 20:11
I took one quick look at eBay's Global Shipping Program and didn't sign up for it. The fees (then anyway) were astronomically high. Any overseas buyer who sees the GSP fee simply won't bid as high which means less money in my pocket and more in eBay's cash drawer. No thanks!!

Lou Baleur
17-Dec-2014, 20:33
Wow. I am reading this and am shocked by the stuff people have to go through. And the "well known scams" that--let's face it--there's no way a person like me would even know about this kind of thing.

I thought that ebay was a safe place for people to sell. I have not sold anything, but I thought that I would. Now I see that it may be more hassle than it's worth. I do like that there are forums like this where people can sell, but they are limited. Oh well, I guess that's why the novice always will pay the price. This is only a hobby for me, so it will cost me money. I see that others make money at their hobbies also. I hoped this would be true for me, but I think that the time involved to make money would simply not make sense.

onnect17
17-Dec-2014, 21:20
Faced a similar issue with foreign buyers having forwarding shipping address in the US, so ebay restrictions by country are useless. They are aware of the issue and can fix it in two secs but there is good money on the line so they look the other way.

Then "a little bird" mentioned PayPal's option to accept (or not) foreign transactions. It sure does the job!

Old-N-Feeble
17-Dec-2014, 22:31
Wow. I am reading this and am shocked by the stuff people have to go through. And the "well known scams" that--let's face it--there's no way a person like me would even know about this kind of thing.

I thought that ebay was a safe place for people to sell. I have not sold anything, but I thought that I would. Now I see that it may be more hassle than it's worth. I do like that there are forums like this where people can sell, but they are limited. Oh well, I guess that's why the novice always will pay the price. This is only a hobby for me, so it will cost me money. I see that others make money at their hobbies also. I hoped this would be true for me, but I think that the time involved to make money would simply not make sense.

I almost never have "serious" issues with eBay either buying or selling... things usually get resolved without much fuss.


Faced a similar issue with foreign buyers having forwarding shipping address in the US, so ebay restrictions by country are useless. They are aware of the issue and can fix it in two secs but there is good money on the line so they look the other way.

Then "a little bird" mentioned PayPal's option to accept (or not) foreign transactions. It sure does the job!

Right... I had one buyer from overseas want to return an item two full months after it was delivered to his US shipping address. He said he didn't have it his hands until much later. Since I had no way of knowing what that third party may have done to the shutter I declined and eBay backed my decision.

Daniel Stone
17-Dec-2014, 22:38
I've sold a good bit of high-ticket items(cameras, lenses, etc) over the past few years to buyers in China. Knock on wood, none have ever been returned, or quality per my description questioned.
As someone else said earlier, use "easy to translate" wording, and for pretty much anything I ship of any real value, I INSIST on using USPS (EXPRESS) Mail. MUCH better tracking, waaaaay faster, and less chance of some nonsense happening. It's also necessary for someone to sign for it.

-Dan

pierre506
17-Dec-2014, 23:48
Dear Garrett,
Hopefully, I'd passed thru the crazy purchasing overseas, most of them on ebay and LFF.
The experience is, so called- so far so good.
Sorry to hear your bad news.

DonJ
18-Dec-2014, 05:43
Faced a similar issue with foreign buyers having forwarding shipping address in the US, so ebay restrictions by country are useless. They are aware of the issue and can fix it in two secs but there is good money on the line so they look the other way.

If they have a forwarding address, why would you care? Per eBay policy, once the item reaches its USA destination, you're done. If it's re-shipped, buyer protection is null and void.

But if it still bothers you, all you have to do is set your PayPal account so it won't accept payments in currencies other than U.S. dollars. So they may be able to buy, but they can't pay, and you can file the unpaid item case to get your fees back.

BTW, for those concerned about feedback, the window is 60 days, not 90.

koh303
18-Dec-2014, 06:15
Just off the phone with Ebay. That was 45 min of my life I'll never get back.

They tried to get out of doing anything, telling me to "go to the resolution center and cancel it...blah". I said I tried, it failed with a warning "you must go to http://www.ebay.com.hk/ (hong kong) to cancel." She asked if I was willing to do that. I said heck no, I tried, it's ALL IN CHINESE!
So no, ebay, YOURE going to fix it.
She replied "I can't, there must be some glitch....how did he get in to your auction, did you state in your ad "not to China?"
No, I did as your rules state, I changed the SETTINGS NOT to allow any of asia.
Um...uh....well, I would just relist it.
What about getting bad feedback from this yahoo?
Well, I don't think that will happen
Can you guarantee that won't happen 5 months from now?
They can't leave feedback except for 90 days...
So I get to wait 90 days to see if my 16 year run of 100% feedback is ruined by some dork?

and so on and so on....for 45 min. I gave up.

I do not see a problem here.
Buyer did not pay, cannot leave feedback, and you are free to relist in 4-5 days after case opened.

But - all of this is easy to know if you read the rules, which are being simplified all the time, if you still dont get it ask in the Ebay forums and someone will direct you to the correct policy page.

So - its everyone elses fault that you do not know the rules, have no inclination to learn and follow them? You should not sell on Ebay at all.

koh303
18-Dec-2014, 06:20
Ive given up on eBay for selling. And when I do I only sell and ship to the US, Canada, Germany and Croatia. Last year I stated in one of my auctions that I will not accept bids from or sell to people in muslim countries, Israel, Mexico, etc.. due to the high risk of scamming and personal reasons.
The risk is the same or higher for selling in the US.

koh303
18-Dec-2014, 06:25
Rant time. I seldom sell on ebay anymore. It's too risky to sell globally to countries that cannot read my auction requirements, understand shipping delays, import taxes, etc. They want the item, but don't want to pay for it.

Import taxes aside, most people in the US behave the same way, maybe because some can only read the pictures you post on your listings.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_in_the_United_States

djdister
18-Dec-2014, 07:00
On a whim I elected to add the "International Shipping" (or whatever its called, no cost to the seller) option for a lens I sold recently. It sold to an international buyer, I received payment, and I shipped the lens to some address in the US. That's it. Sometimes it works out okay.

DonJ
18-Dec-2014, 07:45
On a whim I elected to add the "International Shipping" (or whatever its called, no cost to the seller) option for a lens I sold recently. It sold to an international buyer, I received payment, and I shipped the lens to some address in the US. That's it. Sometimes it works out okay.

That's the Global Shipping Program mentioned earlier in the thread. You shipped to Erlanger, KY. No fuss, no muss, no customs forms, no worries about tracking the package to a foreign country.

DrTang
18-Dec-2014, 10:42
what??

half my sales go out of country

I use Ebay Global Shipping

then.. I just say: hey..it's ebay policy..not me

I just send it to Kentucky and after that..it's not my problem

and the fees are so high..that they won't send it back for some piddly thing... and even if they do..I'm just responsible for the shipping to/from Kentucky only

I ship to everywhere the global shipping thing goes to..although of everyplace..Italy seems to be the biggest pain in the ass

goamules
18-Dec-2014, 15:59
I do not see a problem here.
Buyer did not pay, cannot leave feedback, and you are free to relist in 4-5 days after case opened.

But - all of this is easy to know if you read the rules, which are being simplified all the time, if you still dont get it ask in the Ebay forums and someone will direct you to the correct policy page.

So - its everyone elses fault that you do not know the rules, have no inclination to learn and follow them? You should not sell on Ebay at all.

Hey sport, go attack someone else. I've been selling on ebay since 1998, and on this forum since 2006. My buyers really like my service. I got a nice email from a guy I sold a camera to in the UK just this morning. I have friends in China, France, et all. I just choose HOW I sell there. I know all the ebay rules, and they change every month. Stay out of my posts if you don't have anything good to say. Which is usual. Trust me, you aren't getting anything I sell.

Oh yeah, initiate ignore koh303.....execute. I thought I'd done that before.

koh303
18-Dec-2014, 16:09
Hey sport, go attack someone else. I've been selling on ebay since 1998, and on this forum since 2006. My buyers really like my service. I got a nice email from a guy I sold a camera to in the UK just this morning. I have friends in China, France, et all. I just choose HOW I sell there. I know all the ebay rules, and they change every month. Stay out of my posts if you don't have anything good to say. Which is usual. Trust me, you aren't getting anything I sell.

Oh yeah, initiate ignore koh303.....execute. I thought I'd done that before.

From the OP, it sounds like you are not familiar with some basic Ebay stuff, but thats besides the point.

You do not need to "cancel his bid" simply file a UID. When he does not pay after 4 days, you can close the UID, re list or offer to the next highest bidder (second chance offer). If he does not pay, he cannot leave feedback. If you CHOOSE to cancel the transaction on your own, he can leave feedback even if he does not pay.

Old-N-Feeble
18-Dec-2014, 16:35
From the OP, it sounds like you are not familiar with some basic Ebay stuff, but thats besides the point.

You do not need to "cancel his bid" simply file a UID. When he does not pay after 4 days, you can close the UID, re list or offer to the next highest bidder (second chance offer). If he does not pay, he cannot leave feedback. If you CHOOSE to cancel the transaction on your own, he can leave feedback even if he does not pay.

It won't stick if the buyer messaged him asking him to cancel. If one eBay agent is too dense to have a negative FB removed in a situation like that then escalate it to someone with a brain.:)

DonJ
18-Dec-2014, 16:37
I know all the ebay rules

No disrespect to you, but if true, why call eBay (a true exercise in futility) instead of just filing the UID? If you file a request to cancel, they record a 'defect' against your account. And the buyer can still leave feedback.

onnect17
18-Dec-2014, 19:13
If they have a forwarding address, why would you care? Per eBay policy, once the item reaches its USA destination, you're done. If it's re-shipped, buyer protection is null and void.

But if it still bothers you, all you have to do is set your PayPal account so it won't accept payments in currencies other than U.S. dollars. So they may be able to buy, but they can't pay, and you can file the unpaid item case to get your fees back.

BTW, for those concerned about feedback, the window is 60 days, not 90.

Most of the time I was the user of the items I sell in eBay so I not only looking to be protected as a seller. I also looking to make sure the new owner enjoys it as much as I did. BTW, I have no problem with buyers using forwarding address here in the forum, as long as he is aware of the demarcation point.

To my knowledge, restricting the type of currency is not an effective way of protection because paypal will offer you to convert the currency if source and destination does not match.

koh303
18-Dec-2014, 19:34
It won't stick if the buyer messaged him asking him to cancel. If one eBay agent is too dense to have a negative FB removed in a situation like that then escalate it to someone with a brain.:)

Thats also true, but why even bother doing that when you can file the UID?

Old-N-Feeble
18-Dec-2014, 19:47
There's just more than one way to deal with this particular situation. It could help if the buyer leaves a negative FB before he files the dispute. Whatever you do, always be courteous. One rude comment can get you a negative FB that eBay won't remove.

neil poulsen
18-Dec-2014, 20:20
I do quite a lot of EBay, and I turn off all global bidding and sell only within the US.

Before becoming familiar all that needs to be done to prevent international bidding. But on request, I've sold expensive lenses to international bidders through an intermediary. I checked them out first, and everything went fine.

algarzai
20-Dec-2014, 11:28
i pay my dues...

evan clarke
20-Dec-2014, 15:56
Here's my story.,I sold a pristine 24" Emil Busch anastigmat to a guy in China, who promptly dropped it on the floor and opened an eBay claim. They took the money from my account and required him to ship the lens back for reimbursement. The only thing that saved me is that the cheap swindler used the cheapest shipping possible and it took two months to get back. I got back my refund and have the ruined lens. I am so unhappy about the lens, it is pretty rare, if not possibly the only copy around.

HMG
20-Dec-2014, 16:05
Here's my story.,I sold a pristine 24" Emil Busch anastigmat to a guy in China, who promptly dropped it on the floor and opened an eBay claim. They took the money from my account and required him to ship the lens back for reimbursement. The only thing that saved me is that the cheap swindler used the cheapest shipping possible and it took two months to get back. I got back my refund and have the ruined lens. I am so unhappy about the lens, it is pretty rare, if not possibly the only copy around.

I've heard stories similar to this irrespective of ship-to location; luckily hasn't happened to me. I always take a cell phone phone as it's being packed, though I don't know that it would really prove anything.

Michael W
20-Dec-2014, 16:27
I always take a cell phone phone as it's being packed, though I don't know that it would really prove anything.
Recently I sold a good quality 35mm camera to someone in China, via ebay. I started to worry about what if they received it and then claimed it didn't work properly, and demanded a partial refund to get it cheaper. So just before packing I set up my DSLR and made a video showing the camera was working correctly. I sat it on the front page of the days newspaper for proof of date. I then videod how I packed it well. That was a few weeks ago and I haven't heard anything good or bad from the buyer, but I think knowing I had that video stopped me from worrying. It'd be interesting to know if there have been any incidents where buyers claimed an item was faulty or sent damaged and the seller was able to use video to demonstrate otherwise. I'm wondering if ebay/paypal actually accept such proof.

Jody_S
20-Dec-2014, 17:16
Recently I sold a good quality 35mm camera to someone in China, via ebay. I started to worry about what if they received it and then claimed it didn't work properly, and demanded a partial refund to get it cheaper. So just before packing I set up my DSLR and made a video showing the camera was working correctly. I sat it on the front page of the days newspaper for proof of date. I then videod how I packed it well. That was a few weeks ago and I haven't heard anything good or bad from the buyer, but I think knowing I had that video stopped me from worrying. It'd be interesting to know if there have been any incidents where buyers claimed an item was faulty or sent damaged and the seller was able to use video to demonstrate otherwise. I'm wondering if ebay/paypal actually accept such proof.
I won a claim from a Chinese con artist who simultaneously claimed he didn't receive the camera and it was broken. It took a week.to make paypal see the discrepancy. More recently I have a USA buyer return a projector because he couldn't figure out how to load the film and couldn't be bothered to read the manual I sent that explains how to load the film... A foot broke off on the return trip, so I can't even resell it now.

Old-N-Feeble
20-Dec-2014, 17:40
I have a neighbor who's brother bought a fairly pricey item via eBay and demanded a return and refund. The thief sent back a box of rocks... and BRAGS ABOUT IT!! These are NOT my friends.:mad:

Randy Moe
20-Dec-2014, 18:20
I have a neighbor who's brother bought a fairly pricey item via eBay and demanded a return and refund. The thief sent back a box of rocks... and BRAGS ABOUT IT!! These are NOT my friends.:mad:

Mmmm, bad neighbors. Very bad. Sad to hear of such stupidity. Actually a criminal act.

I used to winter in Harlingen, but I seem to be avoiding it these days. It was the 70's, everywhere was nicer.

Alan Gales
21-Dec-2014, 00:07
I recently sold a Hasselblad film back to a fellow overseas using the Global shipping deal. He was out of town so they couldn't deliver it to him and mailed it back to Erlanger and then to St. Louis where I live. He still wanted the film back so I mailed it back to him at his expense and everything worked out. The reason I bring this up is that the customs in his country opened the package and took the back out of the bubble wrap and half of the shipping peanuts out. If it had been a lens or camera it might have been broken rolling around in the half empty box.

I only ship cameras and lenses to the U.S. and Canada. Customs in some countries is just horrible.

NoBob
21-Dec-2014, 00:19
I'm one of these 'foreign buyers', i.e. living outside the US. Please don't lump us all together like this.

Alan Gales
21-Dec-2014, 01:46
I'm one of these 'foreign buyers', i.e. living outside the US. Please don't lump us all together like this.

I think everyone is just letting off some steam. Ebay can be a pita. Except for a few choice countries, I don't think that foreign buyers are any more dishonest than buyers in the United States.

Steven Tribe
21-Dec-2014, 03:11
Here's my story.,I sold a pristine 24" Emil Busch anastigmat to a guy in China, who promptly dropped it on the floor and opened an eBay claim. They took the money from my account and required him to ship the lens back for reimbursement. The only thing that saved me is that the cheap swindler used the cheapest shipping possible and it took two months to get back. I got back my refund and have the ruined lens. I am so unhappy about the lens, it is pretty rare, if not possibly the only copy around.

This is a terrible situation and your interpretation of what has happened could be correct.

But everything going overseas from the USA is subject to customs control in the receiving country. Even "Global Shipping System" items will be subject to random checks. A check means the package is opened, all loose plastic, air cells and secondary boxes are removed and the "bare" item (lens) is looked at. Repacking never replicates the original and lenses are often left to rattle around in a plain box. The receiver of the package pays his taxes (up to 30%) and knows where the damage has occured (treatment after repacking) but cannot get any kind of compensation from the authorities - so he/she looks elsewhere!

I have found no national trends in apparent dishonesty in Ebay transactions. However, my only 2 postal losses on their way to me have been in Denmark (clear tracking evidence) and a recent Derogy seller (from Bremerhafen, Germany), disappointed with the bidding result, tried to sell me the same lens after the auction was completed.

gary mulder
21-Dec-2014, 03:50
Here's my story.,I sold a pristine 24" Emil Busch anastigmat to a guy in China, who promptly dropped it on the floor and opened an eBay claim. They took the money from my account and required him to ship the lens back for reimbursement. The only thing that saved me is that the cheap swindler used the cheapest shipping possible and it took two months to get back. I got back my refund and have the ruined lens. I am so unhappy about the lens, it is pretty rare, if not possibly the only copy around.

It can well be the case that this lens contains radio active elements. Scanners will go bananaís on it. If thatís the case than you hopefully have a 100% chance that it will be checked.

koh303
21-Dec-2014, 06:22
But everything going overseas from the USA is subject to customs control in the receiving country. Even "Global Shipping System" items will be subject to random checks. A check means the package is opened, all loose plastic, air cells and secondary boxes are removed and the "bare" item (lens) is looked at. Repacking never replicates the original and lenses are often left to rattle around in a plain box. The receiver of the package pays his taxes (up to 30%) and knows where the damage has occured (treatment after repacking) but cannot get any kind of compensation from the authorities - so he/she looks elsewhere!

This is not true when using courier services, such as UPS/FEDEX/DHL, as they have their own customs brokering in house, and are responsible financially for the salfe delivery of any item (insured or not). In some cases DHL might be cheaper then USPS for international shipments, especially for small heavy items.

Sevo
21-Dec-2014, 06:27
This is not true when using courier services, such as UPS/FEDEX/DHL, as they have their own customs brokering in house, and are responsible financially for the salfe delivery of any item (insured or not).

As far as Fedex shipping to Germany is concerned, that mostly centers around "financially" - I frequently had to pick up packages at the customs office (only to be told they are free of charge) AND pay Fedex more than the shipment's worth in "handling fees". Personally I have entirely given up dealing with sellers or buyers resident in the USA.

koh303
21-Dec-2014, 06:48
As far as Fedex shipping to Germany is concerned, that mostly centers around "financially" - I frequently had to pick up packages at the customs office (only to be told they are free of charge) AND pay Fedex more than the shipment's worth in "handling fees". Personally I have entirely given up dealing with sellers or buyers resident in the USA.

All those fees are known prior to shipment, and some services, like DHL express will give you a preview of what they will charge the recipient. There is also an option to bill the sender for all fees, if a seller agrees to that as part of the sale price/terms, but alas, they cannot be avoided, as that is part of the extra price you pay for the service of having things taken care of for you.

James Morris
21-Dec-2014, 07:56
I thought I had all the bases covered to block buyers from certain countries from bidding. Someone still got through by having an empty country in their profile.

goamules
23-Dec-2014, 07:21
Today the story ends for me. After deciding not to trust the ebay rep who promised they'd credit my fees back, I opened an Unpaying Buyer case 12 hrs later. Why didn't I do this at first, people have asked? Simple, when you open a case, the buyer has 4 days to do something, including leave you bad feedback. Yep, only AFTER the case is closed, 4 days later, does the ebay system block any feedback from the buyer. That's what I wanted, to keep my good feedback (just because I do). I knew I'd eventually get my fees back. But since this idiot buyer didn't answer any of my ebaymails after he bid, telling him to acknowledge shipping would be expensive or I'd cancel his bid, I knew he could also get vengeful over the whole affair (he caused). Also, opening an unpaying case gives him 4 days to pay. I did NOT want to have to ship this lens to China, remember? What would I do if he decided to pay after all the moaning about the high shipping rate? I'll tell you what, he'd try to extort a partial refund or break the lens, later. I wanted him locked out of doing anything, like I tried when I blocked Chinese bidders.

As soon as I opened the Unpaying case, he started getting very communicative! "Can you please close case? I cannot do it? I don't want to pay that much for shipping....blah" True, the hosed ebay system doesn't let both of you agree to cancel a transaction, IF you open an unpaying buyer claim. And they keep the fact very hidden that you could close it first. I told him to give me a few days, I was busy with the holidays. I let the clock tick. This morning, 4 days later, ebay's sys allowed me to "close" it, refunded my sales fees. And blocked his feedback. Of course, with ebay's screwed up fantasy system where buyers can do no wrong, I can only leave "Green/good" feedback for any buyer. But I wrote "Unpaying Buyer, hacked into my auction to bid even though prohibited" in the text field. That should warn off a few more US sellers when he tries it again. If ebay doesen't remove it, to protect a poor, shyster, idiot in China from an evil American capitalist. Oh....like they are.

Rant thread over!

koh303
23-Dec-2014, 10:53
I wrote "Unpaying Buyer, hacked into my auction to bid even though prohibited" in the text field. That should warn off a few more US sellers when he tries it again. If ebay doesen't remove it, to protect a poor, shyster, idiot in China from an evil American capitalist. Oh....like they are.

Rant thread over!
That is a violation of the feedback policy, and if he complains (most likely he will not), you will get a policy violation strike, which may or may not affect your account status, depending on how many transactions per month you have.

Beyond that, you ended up doing exactly what you fraught this buyer would do to you by being vengeful. I guess that door swings both ways.

goamules
23-Dec-2014, 11:24
Is someone named KOH speaking to me? All I keep seeing are the "Ignored" boxes pretty often, and hearing a gentle, windy, blowing noise. Strange....

Old-N-Feeble
23-Dec-2014, 11:47
Yeah... eBay has ALWAYS had severe flaws and those at the TOP... HAVEN'T A CLUE!! The PHD's and GURUS at the top... SHOULD LISTEN TO THEIR CUSTOMER SERVICE folks.

Sal Santamaura
23-Dec-2014, 13:11
...eBay...PHD's...at the top...More likely MBAs these days.

Old-N-Feeble
23-Dec-2014, 13:23
More likely MBAs these days.

Perhaps but it matters not. It's still closed-minded arrogance... albeit with even less intelligence.

Jody_S
23-Dec-2014, 13:44
Yeah... eBay has ALWAYS had severe flaws and those at the TOP... HAVEN'T A CLUE!! The PHD's and GURUS at the top... SHOULD LISTEN TO THEIR CUSTOMER SERVICE folks.
They are listening. They just decided buyers were more important than sellers, so they swung the pendulum in their direction. They figure for every hobby seller that gets defrauded and quits, 10 more will line up to take his place. They may be right.

Old-N-Feeble
23-Dec-2014, 13:46
They are listening. They just decided buyers were more important than sellers, so they swung the pendulum in their direction. They figure for every hobby seller that gets defrauded and quits, 10 more will line up to take his place. They may be right.

Mmkay...

koh303
23-Dec-2014, 14:07
They are listening. They just decided buyers were more important than sellers, so they swung the pendulum in their direction. They figure for every hobby seller that gets defrauded and quits, 10 more will line up to take his place. They may be right.

Not really, they just made a simple calculation that a hobby seller does not bring in anywhere near as much as massive "marketplace" retailers. All those 2 bit items are where they make the big money. It might seem that the relatively high fees (which are amazingly low compared to selling on Amazon and similar places) are big money generated through small time sellers, but the truth is that is just not the case.

Ebay is right to demand the same level of customer service a place like Costco, BH or diapers.com offers - that is free shipping, free returns (180 days later, in open used condition) and no questions asked from anyone who sells on Ebay. This came about after many years of people getting stiffed by hobby sellers who could not care or care less about selling and took the money and ran, leaving the buyer with no recourse, after all they are just a private person, not a company, causing ebay to get a fairly negative attitude when it comes to electronics, cameras etc. This drastically lowered sales numbers and prices, and resulted in massive losses for Ebay (and in turn for small time sellers solely dependent on Ebay for income).

Now - ebay is trying to rebrand as a real market place, just like amazon, where you buy things in a tightly regulated and controlled environment, and that means that there must be a baseline all vendors must follow. The peer to peer sales aspect, is just for show, or makes some seller/buyers feel comfortable, but is not a real thing. This has an up side - sales volume is increased sharply, and prices are up, mostly due to better competitive margins now possible and over all the nominal fees have not changed so much for whoever has been selling for a while now (has an established track record). The down side is that in order to meet these new base line/guidelines of customer service, many small time or hobby sellers have to take a financial risk that a sale might be returned and they will have to bankroll the cost while the items are in transit/flux for a week or more, though this risk can be mitigated by embedding that cost in the total sale price of any item. For new comers to Ebay, this is more difficult, if they do not have enough credit or financial structure to support the sale value in full of each item for the supposed return period, say 30 days, and is harder for them to gain access to the benefit programs for good and higher volume sellers.

That said - all the rules are very clear, and in the larger aspect of things, they are a better way to do business then it was in the past. It forces small time sellers to be accountable for mistakes, carelessness or other personal issues., who might have otherwise not bothered to help when something went wrong.

There is no other business structure in the world where a business can openly and publicly criticize its customers, it does not make sense, hence the no negative feedback to buyers. Its also true on the other ebay is a rare place where someone can commit to buy something, essentially putting it on reserve but is not forced to pay for it at the same time, though this can be avoided, and in any case, in many a retail camera stores folks would come in and ask to put something on hold then never show up, and no money down. So - alas, its not as bad as it might seem for old or new sellers, who can and do follow the rules.

hoffner
23-Dec-2014, 14:14
Is someone named KOH speaking to me? All I keep seeing are the "Ignored" boxes pretty often, and hearing a gentle, windy, blowing noise. Strange....

If you really ignore him, why are you asking about him?

hoffner
23-Dec-2014, 14:24
But they were photography related, and he left others good feedback. So I let him remain. I let him ride, my finger on the "cancel bid" button several times.


Of course now, I can't "cancel his bid" and have to talk Ebay into it, and hope he doesn't give me some wacko, chinese version of feedback revenge for my impertinence of having expensive shipping. And I wasted a week and a sale.

Then you won't "let him remain" "let him ride" another time, will you? I mean, whom are you complaining more about - yourself or him??

Jody_S
23-Dec-2014, 15:21
Not really, they just made a simple calculation that a hobby seller does not bring in anywhere near as much as massive "marketplace" retailers. All those 2 bit items are where they make the big money. It might seem that the relatively high fees (which are amazingly low compared to selling on Amazon and similar places) are big money generated through small time sellers, but the truth is that is just not the case.

Ebay is right to demand the same level of customer service a place like Costco, BH or diapers.com offers - that is free shipping, free returns (180 days later, in open used condition) and no questions asked from anyone who sells on Ebay. This came about after many years of people getting stiffed by hobby sellers who could not care or care less about selling and took the money and ran, leaving the buyer with no recourse, after all they are just a private person, not a company, causing ebay to get a fairly negative attitude when it comes to electronics, cameras etc. This drastically lowered sales numbers and prices, and resulted in massive losses for Ebay (and in turn for small time sellers solely dependent on Ebay for income).

Now - ebay is trying to rebrand as a real market place, just like amazon, where you buy things in a tightly regulated and controlled environment, and that means that there must be a baseline all vendors must follow. The peer to peer sales aspect, is just for show, or makes some seller/buyers feel comfortable, but is not a real thing. This has an up side - sales volume is increased sharply, and prices are up, mostly due to better competitive margins now possible and over all the nominal fees have not changed so much for whoever has been selling for a while now (has an established track record). The down side is that in order to meet these new base line/guidelines of customer service, many small time or hobby sellers have to take a financial risk that a sale might be returned and they will have to bankroll the cost while the items are in transit/flux for a week or more, though this risk can be mitigated by embedding that cost in the total sale price of any item. For new comers to Ebay, this is more difficult, if they do not have enough credit or financial structure to support the sale value in full of each item for the supposed return period, say 30 days, and is harder for them to gain access to the benefit programs for good and higher volume sellers.

That said - all the rules are very clear, and in the larger aspect of things, they are a better way to do business then it was in the past. It forces small time sellers to be accountable for mistakes, carelessness or other personal issues., who might have otherwise not bothered to help when something went wrong.

There is no other business structure in the world where a business can openly and publicly criticize its customers, it does not make sense, hence the no negative feedback to buyers. Its also true on the other ebay is a rare place where someone can commit to buy something, essentially putting it on reserve but is not forced to pay for it at the same time, though this can be avoided, and in any case, in many a retail camera stores folks would come in and ask to put something on hold then never show up, and no money down. So - alas, its not as bad as it might seem for old or new sellers, who can and do follow the rules.
As I said, they decided buyers were more important than sellers....

goamules
23-Dec-2014, 18:03
Thanks man, I have noticed what you're saying too.

Michael W
23-Dec-2014, 18:33
Ebay is right to demand the same level of customer service a place like Costco, BH or diapers.com offers - that is free shipping,
"Free shipping" - AKA "Paid shipping" with the cost hidden in the item price, so you have no idea what you actually paid.

Ken Lee
23-Dec-2014, 19:00
Thread closed at request of OP.