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kimcheeya
1-Dec-2004, 22:31
How much is an Apo EL-NIKKOR 1:5.6 f=300mm lens worth (mint)?

CP Goerz
1-Dec-2004, 23:52
Not that much since longer enlarger lenses aren't worth that much as no-one enlarges 8x10. I can help you out with $50 if you really need to get rid of it ;-)

CP Goerz

Vince Pulvirenti
2-Dec-2004, 06:13
There are a lot of us enlarging 8x10, your lens is worth much more than $50. If you want to sell it try ebay.

CP Goerz
2-Dec-2004, 19:33
I was just kidding, the lens ought to sell for a couple of grand at least on Ebay, maybe 5K if the blood gets up.

CP Goerz

Mark Sawyer
3-Dec-2004, 15:31
No way, $1200, max. C'mon, let's get a pool going...

CP Goerz
4-Dec-2004, 13:58
If it goes for $1.2K I'll buy it myself!, the 480mm sells for $15K...and thats the lowest I've ever seen it sell for. Used by Christopher Burkett and held closely by National Geographic who has three of them.

CP Goerz.

Mark Sawyer
6-Dec-2004, 19:09
We'll find out soon; it's listed now and bidding is up to $790 with a week to go...

BTW, would the 480mm APO El Nikkor really produce measureably/noticeably better results than my $149 used-but-mint APO Ronar? (I've never used a high-dollar state of the art lens, and suspect it would be wasted on me anyways...)

CP Goerz
8-Dec-2004, 00:28
The APO El Nikkors are pretty special, yes you would see a difference.

CP Goerz.

holden
11-Dec-2004, 21:28
WHAT ABOUT A MINT APO 105 WITH BOX

ITS VERY SHARP,BUT I DO NOT REALY USE IT ANYMORE

HOW MUCH THIS WILL SELL FOR?

THANKS

Jess Tibbiteur
15-Dec-2004, 04:04
Looks like a Apo El Nikkor 300mm is worth about $4051.00 or there abouts. Lucky dog. And you folks wondering if there is a difference, yes. Bigtime, as a matter of fact. They are optomized for color work and there is nothing better in glass than an Apo El Nikkor. There is a staggering difference between the AENs and anything else when you look through your focuser. They make Goertz Apos look like Coke bottle lenses and an Apo Nikkor is soft in comparison. And those Process Nikkors folks fall all over themselves about on Ebay are relagated to paperweights. (I have had a couple of those Process Nikkors and they are profoundly ordinary and fall apart fast as the enlargement increases) They are beautiful to look at. The closest lenses I've seen in sharpness are the Rodenstock G's. My 50mm G is a ripper and the longer lenses are optimised for such huge ratios that they are only as good as anything else below their optimum range. the Apo Els are for more practical ratios such as 5-20x depending on the focal length. And that 300 will only cover up to 5x7 and that is if you stop down to f11 at least. I heard of a 480 on Ebay a year or two ago that went for ten grand but there was something about the seller changing his mind after setting the Buy It Now price and screwed the buyer over. Prices have softened and I though the 300 would hit at least five grand. Everyone says they would pay this or that but when it comes to stepping up to the plate, talk is cheap. Four grand is a very good price considering the condition and performance and I think they were 8-12K new in the mid seventies (more than a brand new Porsche 911). If you can find one and have the cash, buy it. It doesn't get any better than this in color and in most B&W work it is excellent too. There is a rare 170mm for making 8x10 or 11x14 prints from 4x5. Really sweet. The 210 is amazing and great for everything up to 4x5. The 2nd generation 210 covered 5x7 too. B&H listed them for sale up to a year or so ago for $7900 or close. (back me up on that one CP) I hope the buyer of that 300 is a printer and not a collector. What a waste not to use something like that.....Maybe someday..... Ever have one CP?

holden
15-Dec-2004, 21:47
I AM NOT REALLY SURE I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT LENS PERFORMANCE.
YOU SAID THOSE PROCESS LENS FALL APART WHEN YOU ENLARGE?, BUT JUST BEFORE YOU SAID SOMETHING ABOUT VIEWFINDER?.
I ASSUME YOU ENLARGE FROM LARGE FORMAT NEGS, AND YOU CAN SEE LENS FALLING APART?, WHAT SIZE DO YOU PRINT?, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE YOUR PRINTS SINCE YOU SEEMS TO BE KNOWLEDGABLE AND DEMANDING. I AM AT THE MOMENT BUILDING AN 8X10 POINT SOURCE ENLARGER AND NEED ALL THE INFOS I CAN GET.
FROM 35 TO 4X5 I ONLY USE POINT SOURCE LIGHT, AND FOR SMALL FORMAT THE SHARPER LENS I HAVE TESTED IS A COMPUTAR 3.5/65mm

AS FAR AS TAKING I GET GREAT RESULT WITH A APO-NIKKOR 1:9 f= 455 PROCESS LENS (8X10 CAMERA)

HOLDEN

Jess Tibbiteur
16-Dec-2004, 07:06
The job I was working on was indeed an 8x10 neg enlarged to only around 30" and the Process Nikkor was too soft at any aperture to be presentable. And as far as 8x10 point light, I've been told by a major point light printer that the advantage diminishes rapidly as the negs get larger. He says there is little or no advantage to point light over condenser at 8x10. But you must ultimately be the judge of what is good or not. If you print strictly B&W with the point light, you might look for lenses with limited spectral opimization or down towards the blue side of things. Thats where things will be the sharpest. I have never had much luck with the computars but I would look at Rodagon G at 50mm and 105 0r 150. Though optimized for really big prints, my 50mm kicks on any other 50 I've used by a long shot. One of those Zeiss Orthoplanar(?) 65 or 85mm (not sure of details but look around and one will eventually show up) are supposed to be flat screamers. I want one of these. Not cheap though. Someone is selling Russian industrial lenses on Ebay currently and the one featured is around 125mm and is a limited wavelength job with accessory filter to cut it off even more sharply. Stated resolution is way, way out there. Dirt cheap too. Someone in Switzerland just listed both the 105 and 210 Apo El Nikkors, model ones. They have a high nminimum bid but either of those blaze bigtime with point light. But to be honest, point light makes any lens look pretty darn sharp.

I will cry forever on the 8x10 enlarger I passsed on a year or so ago. It was govt surplus and used for printing satellite negs. The enlarger could have been tossed but the custom Zeiss limited lens was scouped up by someone more alert than I was at the time and it tested way beyond any other known lens covering large negs. I think he got 40,000 to 60,000 for it too.

Hugo Thomi
16-Dec-2004, 13:47
If you like to buy some Apo-El-Nikkors and similar, you can do so right now! Check out my new Ebay-sellings:


http://cgi.ebay.ch/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=80432&item=3860770827&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW (http://cgi.ebay.ch/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=80432&item=3860770827&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW)
http://cgi.ebay.ch/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=80432&item=3860784359&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW (http://cgi.ebay.ch/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=80432&item=3860784359&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW)
http://cgi.ebay.ch/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=80432&item=3860780352&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW (http://cgi.ebay.ch/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=80432&item=3860780352&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW)
http://cgi.ebay.ch/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=80432&item=3860788262&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW (http://cgi.ebay.ch/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=80432&item=3860788262&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW)

Hurry! :-)
huto

holden
17-Dec-2004, 17:31
THANKS FOR YOUR ANSWER, AND YOUR KNOWLEDGE, IT IS ALWAYS NICE TO TALK TO PEOPLE WHO KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT.
I AGREE WITH YOU ABOUT THE DIMINISHING RETURNS OF LARGE NEGS AND POINT SOURCE , BUT I THINK IT IS RELATIVE TO THE ENLARGEMENT RATIO, IF IT WAS TO BE EQUAL I BELIEVE THE GAIN WILL BE EQUAL AS WELL, THEN AGAIN THE EQUIVALENT OF A 10X15 (35) WILL BE A 75X95 FOR A 8X10 QUIET A LARGE PRINT.
BESIDE SHARPNESS, WHAT I LOVE ABOUT POINT SOURCE IS WHAT IT DOES AT THE MICRO CONTRAST LEVEL WHERE YOU CANNOT BURN OR DODGE, AND THIS IS VISIBLE AT ANY STAGE OF ENLARGEMENT.
FYI I HEARD THAT IN NEVADA THERE A U.S .BASE WITH A DARKROOM THAT IS NOW USE FOR STORAGE SPACE THAT IS FULL OF 8X10 ENLARGERS FOR ARMY ROLL FILM FROM THE 70'S AND 80'S COMPLETE WITH LENSES AND CARRIERS. MAYBE IF WE CAN GET SEVERAL PERSONS INTERESTED WE CAN TRY TO REQUEST ACCESS TO BUY STUFF, THE LAST I HEARD THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT LEVELING THE BUILDING WITH EVERYTHING IN IT (YOUR TAX DOLLAR AT WORK).
I LIVE IN LOS ANGELES YOU CAN EMAIL ME DIRECT.
ALL THE BEST.

HOLDEN

Dan Fromm
17-Dec-2004, 17:56
holden, please don't SHOUT. Please turn off your keyboard's caps lock.

Thanks.

Patrick Raymore
18-Dec-2004, 13:23
I don't want to be a killjoy but one has to be practical about the Apo El Nikkors. What follows comes from having handled and owned many of them. I still own five of them.
The particular 300mm that just sold on Ebay only covers 65*90mm at f5.6, 4*5" at f8 and 5*7" at f11 to f16. Attempts to use it at f5.6 with 4*5" will result in significant fall off at the enlarging plain. Say you are using it for 4*5" at f8. Most good 6-7 element lenses for 4*5" are near the diffraction limit at f8 anyway. So the only advantage for the Apo El Nikkor would be its superb color correction. Ditto for use at f11 to f16 for 5*7".

The 105mm on the Swedish ebay covers 35mm at f5.6 and 60*60mm at f8. (By the way I know that there are at least 3 completely different models of the 105mm, each having different parameters - know what your are buying!). Say that you are enlarging a 35mm slide to 11*14" (~10x), your enlarging head would have to be at least 1.26+ meters above the easel. Do the math for the 300mm and you will see why these lenses are used mostly on horizontal enlargers.

Apo El Nikkors are made to be used wide open (for the intended format) and there is a reason why. The reason has to do with a dirty little secret that no one speaks about called “effective aperture”. The marked aperture on an enlarging lens is for the infinite conjugate and the formula for the effective aperture (N‘) is N'= N(1+m) where N is the marked aperture, and m is the magnification. Say that you are making an 8X print, at f5.6 marked aperture, assuming diffraction limited performance, your effective aperture is f50. At e line= 560nm, this gives you a resolving power of ~30 lp/mm. Pretty discouraging is it not. And it does not matter if you are using a point source enlarger, you can not make an end run around the physics. That why when people start speaking of paper resolution I smile (of course, if you are contact printing, then a whole different set of physics comes into play).

One last comment. Apo El Nikkors require the highest associated equipment for them to be employed and for you to see the real difference.

Jess Tibbiteur
20-Dec-2004, 19:35
Pat- Thanks for your accurate input. The AEN's are all very conservative in covering power and the 300 is just a 210 optimized for a greater magnification of a 4x5. And like any fine lens, they do benefit from proper set-up and application. I will say this though, the Apo Els are so good that it is evident is most situations. Sounds like you have one of each! If you ever hear of a 480 for sale, please remember me. I would dearly love to be able to make some splits from 8x10's with one. I have a few myself and nothing comes close for that use. I've dreamed of a 480 since they were introduced. And I have paid enough dues to put one through its paces. If it is anything like the others, I'd be quite pleased. I have heard that the big one is even orders of magnitude more impressive. You hear so many tales about these lenses.....

John Z.
21-Dec-2004, 10:41
A question for Hugo; the items on EBAY in Europe are new to me; I assume these are EBAY Czech Republic. Is it any more complicated to bid for items, given the language and currency are different? How do you get to the EBAY sites in Europe in the first place? Thanks for your input.

Dan Fromm
21-Dec-2004, 10:48
John, PMFJI.


http://www.ebay.ch/ (http://www.ebay.ch/) is eBay Switzerland. Ain't no eBay Czech Republic.

To find eBay's foreign sites, go to www.ebay.com, then look in the "global sites" window, select the country you want, and click "go" OR go to the bottom of the page and click on the country you want.

Bidding is bidding, money is money. The forms are pretty much the same. You may have to put a comma (,) instead of a decimal point between the units and the hundredths, i.e., 10,00 instead of 10.00. The biggest problem with buying from abroad is remitting funds to the vendor.

tim atherton
23-Dec-2004, 22:19
ebay Switzerland. CH = Confoederatio Helvetica

Dr Klaus Schmitt
24-Jan-2005, 09:39
I'm parting with my Apo EL Nikkor 210mm in MINT-condition and would also with my 105mm Apo EL should there be some serious interest.

paul_4875
6-Feb-2005, 08:25
I've owned all the rodagons (Apo's, 90 Apo, 105 G etc) and I also have the 105 Apo El Nikkor.
everything they say about it is true. it is astonishing and yes you can clearly see it in your prints.

Rodenstock should be sued for saying their lenses are Apo. They are NOT. when you see the apo el nikkor lens through the focus scope the difference is instantly apparent. it is far sharper, and the only true apo out there. It wipes the floor with a G series . nothing is in the same ballpark.

if you enlarge medium format and care about your work, then you have to get this lens. sell your car.

Patrick Raymore
6-Feb-2005, 10:24
Paul,

For an expanded discussion on your comments see this thread.


http://largeformatphotography.info/lfforum/topic/130801.html (http://largeformatphotography.info/lfforum/topic/130801.html)

Dr Klaus Schmitt
30-Mar-2005, 12:07
I got another Apo EL 300mm in absolutely MINT condition and a 105mm in EX++ condition. Should there be some interest, please contact me using kds315 AT yahoo.com . Please remove the "_remnove_this" when emailing me directly by clicking at my name

Thanks, Klaus