PDA

View Full Version : IMAGO Positive Paper



Alessandro Bocchi
1-Oct-2014, 13:33
As everyone know, the Harman Direct Positive is no longer available on the market. There is this new product that is very very different but still interesting and i start to make some test with this paper. If you are interested to make some test and experiment with this paper just share here with us your result and the detail of the develop and the pre flashing if any.

Alessandro Bocchi
1-Oct-2014, 13:35
Padua (PD) Italy - Series of portrait taken on IMAGO Positive Paper during the Vintage Festival by I-Fotocellula. This picture was taken by Massimo Nalesso. I had to scan with the picture inside the chassis because it is extremely glossy and on the glass of the scanner it generate a terrible effect.
The dark strip at the bottom is due to a preflashing with the dark slide not completely opened.

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2944/15227324808_140a1229c2_b.jpg

Alessandro Bocchi
1-Oct-2014, 13:39
Padua (PD) Italy - Series of portrait taken on IMAGO Positive Paper during the Vintage Festival by I-Fotocellula. This picture was taken by Massimo Nalesso. I had to scan with the picture inside the chassis because it is extremely glossy and on the glass of the scanner it generate a terrible effect.
This paper is extremely contrasted and, in my opinion, need a good pre flashing to reveal all the shades of grays. Also the develop should be with a more diluted solution and with a longer time. I used the ILFORD PQ Universal 1:14 and the development time was about 3 minutes.

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3927/15413582305_7a40f8c687_b.jpg

Jim C.
1-Oct-2014, 15:25
Very nice images, I'd be interested in trying some but it seems like this IMAGO paper is only available in Europe, is there a US source ?

Alessandro Bocchi
1-Oct-2014, 15:50
I already ask at the Italian distributor and i will let you know.


Very nice images, I'd be interested in trying some but it seems like this IMAGO paper is only available in Europe, is there a US source ?

ImSoNegative
1-Oct-2014, 22:20
yes very nice images, I would be interested as well. thanks

cgrab
2-Oct-2014, 01:39
Great pictures, and very welcome information about the new IMAGO direct positive paper. Could you explain about the "preflashing", please. What exactly are you doing, and how much of it?

For forum members outside Europe, macodirect.de ships internationally.

Boscoe
2-Oct-2014, 02:24
I find the paper extremely contrasty. My source, Mr cad in London, recommends PQ developers heavily diluted to lower the contrast but I have found this is still not satisfactory. I do like the contrast for some things but this paper is very difficult to deal with.

Alessandro Bocchi
2-Oct-2014, 05:01
Regarding the Pre-flashing of the Direct Positive Paper.

I will try to explain with my word in my terrible english what is and how i made the preflshing. This is my way. Probably there are other ways maybe better but i will explain how i usually do on my paper.
At first why pre-flashing. I always say that it like having a balance that is not perfectly tarated. I mean you add some weight to one of the two plate and it does not move. You will add some more weight and it still not move the needle. Add again some more weight and show now it start to move the needle. You find that the balance need to be loaded with, for example, 150 gr to start reading. After that the balance will read every single little weight even just 1 or 2 gr.
The direct positive paper is the same balance. I add a calculated quantity of light. The light i add to my paper is like adding the 150 gr to the balance. After the pre-flashing my sheet of paper is ready to register every trace of light even the lightest. Before the pre-flashing a big quantity of light will disappear in the deep dark.

How i do the pre flashing. I made myself a little box with inside a 15 watt light like to one used in the owen or in the sewing machines. The light from this box exit only from a narrow cut of about 4 mm wide and long about 40 mm. This narrow stripe is also covered with two pieces of semi transparent drawing paper and the light comes out from this stripe very very soft and wary well diffuse. With the light of this little box on i will remove the dark slide of the chassis and let the light go on the paper for 8 to 10 seconds at the distance of 1 meters form the light source. To calculate the right amount of time you have to pre-flash the paper with your own light or the light of your enlarger you have to make the stripes test and find how many light you can add to the paper and preserve the complete deep black.

Alessandro Bocchi
2-Oct-2014, 05:05
I use ILFORD PQ UNIVERSAL in a 1:14 solution for about 3 minutes. The Developer must be fresh. Diluted but fresh because with a aged developer the picture will comes out muddy and not sharp. I saw very very nice result also with a Caffenol development but i still have to try myself.


I find the paper extremely contrasty. My source, Mr cad in London, recommends PQ developers heavily diluted to lower the contrast but I have found this is still not satisfactory. I do like the contrast for some things but this paper is very difficult to deal with.

Alessandro Bocchi
2-Oct-2014, 05:15
Regarding the great contrast of the Direct Positive Paper.

I don't have lot of experience with the IMAGO that for me is quite new but with the HARMAN the contrast could be reduced and you can obtain with the right pre flashing and development a very nice quantity of grey tonality. This is just an example of the HARMAN paper. I don't have any example with the IMAGO but the emulsion is the same.

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3716/13610175145_1a3521bcb0_b.jpg

jnanian
2-Oct-2014, 05:31
As everyone know, the Harman Direct Positive is no longer available on the market. There is this new product that is very very different but still interesting and i start to make some test with this paper. If you are interested to make some test and experiment with this paper just share here with us your result and the detail of the develop and the pre flashing if any.


hi alessandro

is this paper being made for and by susanna kraus? she worked with ilford when ilford ( harman ) was creating their paper
and it was used in the imago 1:1 camera. i wish there were people here in the states who were distributing this paper!

Boscoe
2-Oct-2014, 08:36
I believe this IMAGO paper was commissioned. So is it technically possible to create a direct positive paper with a speed around 100 ISO? If so I wonder why not, even at say very high ISOs as you won't be enlarging the paper so who cares!?

jnanian
2-Oct-2014, 09:00
I believe this IMAGO paper was commissioned. So is it technically possible to create a direct positive paper with a speed around 100 ISO? If so I wonder why not, even at say very high ISOs as you won't be enlarging the paper so who cares!?

regular paper in the right light-conditions can be rated at iso 25
and at the light farm denise ross is making her own emulsion at an even higher rated iso ..
makes perfect sense that iso100 can be made.

Alessandro Bocchi
2-Oct-2014, 10:33
I really done care very much of the speed of the paper. I like that is slow because i use old lens even without shutter and i can handle exposure time of 1 or 2 second just removing the cap of the lens. Also the feeling to work with slow film and paper force me and the subject in a much more ancient style portrait. Many time with an head rest and with the lens set at full aperture. I really won't be happier with a faster direct positive paper. But i will be happier with a cheaper direct positive paper and with a fiber based paper like the HARMAN was.

Alessandro Bocchi
2-Oct-2014, 11:12
Yes i think you are right. I am quite sure it is the one being made for and by Susanna Kraus for the IMAGO 1:1 Camera. The emulsion is the same that was used by Harman but the base is totally different. This base of the IMAGO paper its similar to the cibachrome print. Super Glossy. If you don't like glory surface this is not your product. I just want to try to see what i can get from this paper.


hi alessandro

is this paper being made for and by susanna kraus? she worked with ilford when ilford ( harman ) was creating their paper
and it was used in the imago 1:1 camera. i wish there were people here in the states who were distributing this paper!

jnanian
2-Oct-2014, 14:20
I really done care very much of the speed of the paper. I like that is slow because i use old lens even without shutter and i can handle exposure time of 1 or 2 second just removing the cap of the lens. Also the feeling to work with slow film and paper force me and the subject in a much more ancient style portrait. Many time with an head rest and with the lens set at full aperture. I really won't be happier with a faster direct positive paper. But i will be happier with a cheaper direct positive paper and with a fiber based paper like the HARMAN was.

i know what you mean, i do the same thing .. slow is nice .. and inexpensive is ALWAYS good :)


Yes i think you are right. I am quite sure it is the one being made for and by Susanna Kraus for the IMAGO 1:1 Camera. The emulsion is the same that was used by Harman but the base is totally different. This base of the IMAGO paper its similar to the cibachrome print. Super Glossy. If you don't like glory surface this is not your product. I just want to try to see what i can get from this paper.

this is interesting because i remember the ilford came both in rc and fiber.
i have never seen cibachrome paper ( i can imagine super-glossy though )
didn't the other ilford ( not harman technologies but the ink jet &c company )
also make cibachrome paper? maybe they this is a joining of forces to use up
materials like old cibachrome paper base, and new emulsion?

whatever it might be, i hope it is send abroad ! sounds like fun using it ..

- john

Donald Qualls
2-Oct-2014, 17:31
Cibachrome was in fact rebranded to Ilfochrome after the old Ilford bought the process from Ciba (a chemical company, they had no real corporate interest in photography, they introduced Cibachrome originally to try to get some income from a patent they held on the dye-destruction image forming process).

I don't know anything about either the Ilford or Imago direct positive paper, but I understand the Kodak product in this category (long discontinued) was made the same way as direct positive duplicating film -- by preflashing the emulsion with a light level that "went over the top" of the shoulder of the light curve, leaving the halide grains in a state where additional light exposure would result in less, rather than more density on development. This produces a very slow product, because it takes a LOT more light to reduce density from a "saturated" state than it did to build up density from pristine halide grains. If the Ilford and Imago are fast enough to produce the images that are shown in this thread, they're most likely not produced by that process -- and if they develop in common print developers, they're probably not dye-destruction materials, either.

Steve M Hostetter
2-Oct-2014, 19:36
Hello Alessandro,, do you have a link for an American distributor? Also what is the power on your lights for studio portrait work?
Thx
Steve

Alessandro Bocchi
5-Oct-2014, 14:43
Brescia (BS) Italy - Series of portrait taken on IMAGO Positive Paper during the FotoTrace 2014. This is Giulia Ferrando and this is one of the few acceptable picture that i took during the event. I had to scan with the picture inside the chassis because it is extremely glossy and on the glass of the scanner it generate a terrible effect.

There was a terrible light. Just the ancient light and it was too low and falling from the ceiling. I had to use a reflector and also the light from an iPhone and it took 10 seconds at full aperture at f 1:3. I was satisfied after taking this picture and i put everything away in the bags.

- Camera: TOYO-FIELD 45 AII L (Linhof)
- Lens: Dallmeyer (Soft Focus) 2B 210 1:3
- Exposure: 10 seconds at f 3
- Film: IMAGO Positive Paper - 3-6 ASA - size 4x5"
- Developer: ILFORD PQ UNIVERSAL 1+14 - 3 minutes at 23 C
- Stop: ILFORD ILFO STOP
- Fixer: ILFORD RAPID FIXER
- Lightmeter: Gossen Lunasix 3 reading the incident light.
- Ligthing: 2 Ambient Light and iPhone.

- Scanner: EPSON V700 and EPSON Scan 3.81
- Software: Adobe Photoshop CS4

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5597/15264980797_4052a4531b_b.jpg

mathieu Bauwens
6-Oct-2014, 03:27
That's really good for a 10 seconds pose.

Alessandro Bocchi
6-Oct-2014, 09:46
Thank you very much. I was really afraid to be not able to take a single acceptable picture. During that kind of festival of historic and alternative techniques and process. In that place there was original prints framed of the most interesting and important photographer )Ansel Adams just to say one) but i was so busy with my camera and my paper that i did not have the possibility to appreciate anything of that.


That's really good for a 10 seconds pose.

Alessandro Bocchi
6-Oct-2014, 14:24
Brescia (BS) Italy - Series of portrait taken on IMAGO Positive Paper during the FotoTrace 2014. In this picture from the left Luisa Bondoni of the Photography Museum of Brescia, Paola Guerriero the artist that made the painted background, Cristina and Valeria Arena. This is one of the few acceptable picture that i took during the event. I had to scan with the picture inside the chassis because it is extremely glossy and on the glass of the scanner it generate a terrible effect.

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5599/15438230526_29c9979531_b.jpg

Alessandro Bocchi
18-Oct-2014, 11:22
Padua (PD) Italy - Series of portrait taken on IMAGO Positive Paper during the Vintage Festival by I-Fotocellula. This is the portrait of Martina Zanarini and was taken by Samuele Piccoli. I had to scan with the picture inside the chassis because it is extremely glossy and on the glass of the scanner it generate a terrible effect.

- Camera: Stenopeika 5x7 Tailboard
- Lens: Dallmeyer (Soft Focus) 2B 210 1:3
- Exposure: about 1 second at f 3
- Film: IMAGO Positive Paper - 3-6 ASA - size 5x7"
- Developer: ILFORD PQ UNIVERSAL 1+14 - 3 minutes at 23 C

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5606/15379004898_ec2e851996_b.jpg

Alessandro Bocchi
6-Dec-2014, 16:14
Padua (PD) Italy - Christine wearing a Mask. The paper is really hugely. I don't know what happeded but the paper gate some light before it was loaded in the chassis. I loaded this paper in an hotel bathroom and probably it was not perfectly dark.

- Camera: TOYO-FIELD 45 AII L (Linhof)
- Lens: Voigtlander Heliar 210 1:4.5 in Compound shutter
- Exposure: 2 seconds at f 4.5
- Film: IMAGO Positive Paper - 3-6 ASA - size 4x5"
- Developer: ILFORD PQ UNIVERSAL 1+9 - 2 minutes at 20 C
- Stop: ILFORD ILFO STOP
- Fixer: ILFORD HYPAM FIXER
- Lightmeter: Gossen Lunasix 3 reading the incident light
- Lighting: One continuous Light

- Scanner: EPSON V700 and EPSON Scan 3.81
- Software: Adobe Photoshop CS4

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7470/15961619712_7c400042ec_b.jpg

Alessandro Bocchi
7-Dec-2014, 09:10
Padua (PD) Italy - Christine wearing a Mask. The paper is really ugly. I don't know what happened but the paper get some light before it was loaded in the chassis. I loaded this paper in an hotel bathroom and probably it was not perfectly dark.

- Camera: TOYO-FIELD 45 AII L (Linhof)
- Lens: VOIGTLANDER Heliar 210 1:4.5 in Compound shutter
- Exposure: 2 seconds at f 4.5
- Film: IMAGO Positive Paper - 3-6 ASA - size 4x5"
- Developer: ILFORD PQ UNIVERSAL 1+9 - 2 minutes at 20 C
- Stop: ILFORD ILFO STOP
- Fixer: ILFORD HYPAM FIXER
- Lightmeter: Gossen Lunasix 3 reading the incident light
- Lighting: One continuous Light

- Scanner: EPSON V700 and EPSON Scan 3.81
- Software: Adobe Photoshop CS4

126166

Misko
16-Mar-2016, 09:42
I found Imago paper in Shanghai, China! Will buy a box of 8x10 and shoot some next time i go to photo market.
DO you rate your paper rather as 3 or 6 ISO (after the preflash)?
And one silly question - how long can you keep a shot undeveloped after the shooting?