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Corran
30-Sep-2014, 15:34
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/filmferrania/100-more-years-of-analog-film

Film Ferrania has started a Kickstarter to raise money for the purchase of the equipment to have a sustainable film production company. Rewards include new/reversal color reversal film (ScotchChrome 100, recreated).

I wasn't around for the 3M/Scotch films but I backed for 2x each of the 35mm and 120 film, just because. I would love to see E-6 reversal films stay alive! I wonder if they could eventually coat/cut LF sheets?

angusparker
30-Sep-2014, 16:08
Just signed up for 4 rolls of 120. Love to have Chrome alive after Velvia is discontinued. At least in MF.

Corran
30-Sep-2014, 16:18
Well let's not count our chickens before they hatch. Er, well, before they die.

I'd like to hope that Velvia / Provia will be here for a while, at least in 135/120.

angusparker
30-Sep-2014, 16:42
Well let's not count our chickens before they hatch. Er, well, before they die.

I'd like to hope that Velvia / Provia will be here for a while, at least in 135/120.

Agreed. But it would be nice to have a right sized supplier like Ilford for B&W but supplying Chromes.

Andrea Gazzoni
1-Oct-2014, 02:08
I wonder if they could eventually coat/cut LF sheets?

I asked them this question 1 year ago and they said yes. Maybe showing some interest by dropping them a line will help.

analoguey
1-Oct-2014, 02:59
That founders wall idea is wonderful. I'll back them asap. :-)

Deval
1-Oct-2014, 06:14
2 pack of 120

Corran
1-Oct-2014, 06:43
I asked them this question 1 year ago and they said yes. Maybe showing some interest by dropping them a line will help.

Good idea.
In the comments section they mentioned the possibility of 4x5 in the future. I will encourage that! After I try this ScotchChrome, at least.

Delfi_r
1-Oct-2014, 07:25
They need to get the old machinery to go for large sheets of film. Their initial plan was to live with the research facility until they realised that chrome film it's not cheap to produce on small scale. Now they have only one competitor in the reversible area, Fuji, and it's leaving the sheet film market. Ferrania people have some niche if they succeed to produce color and reversal film.

Andrea Gazzoni
1-Oct-2014, 07:46
I am curious to read something more about this Scotch Chrome film. The few comments on the quality of the old emulsion I've found so far on the web are not that encouraging

Michael E
1-Oct-2014, 12:42
The few comments on the quality of the old emulsion I've found so far on the web are not that encouraging

It was in competition with a full range of high quality products from Kodak, Fuji and Agfa. Now it's "better than nothing".

Corran
1-Oct-2014, 13:05
I posted this on RFF earlier today. images from ScotchChrome that aren't cross-processed or all out of wack due to expiration / poor storage are hard to find, but I found this Flickr album (https://www.flickr.com/photos/mattbell/sets/72157624830527399/).

If it looks like that I'll be very happy. I might throw an 81A filter on it to warm it up just a tad. Looks like Astia but less contrasty, which is awesome. A reversal Portra, kind of?

Here's another image, looks really nice to me:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/dropletcafe/8133453391

Regular Rod
1-Oct-2014, 15:49
I posted this on RFF earlier today. images from ScotchChrome that aren't cross-processed or all out of wack due to expiration / poor storage are hard to find, but I found this Flickr album (https://www.flickr.com/photos/mattbell/sets/72157624830527399/).

If it looks like that I'll be very happy. I might throw an 81A filter on it to warm it up just a tad. Looks like Astia but less contrasty, which is awesome. A reversal Portra, kind of?

Here's another image, looks really nice to me:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/dropletcafe/8133453391

Yes they look just right for the sort of photographs I sometimes like to make. I'd like to try it in foggy, misty conditions...

RR

Deval
1-Oct-2014, 15:50
Well I hope e6 stays available

EOTS
3-Oct-2014, 09:01
Here's an interesting interview video with Dave Bias from Ferrania,
explaining what's happening at the moment in Italy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAPqpoq0TRM&list=UU7T8roVtC_3afWKTOGtLlBA

koh303
3-Oct-2014, 17:47
Backed!

analoguey
4-Oct-2014, 00:33
Have they reached the goal yet? IIRC they were 2/3 there when I backed them.

AtlantaTerry
4-Oct-2014, 00:43
Back in the '60s I used Scotch Chrome. It was often the actual film one received when purchasing "private label" film from stores such as Sears Roebuck, K-Mart, etc..

IMHO, compared to anything E-6 from Kodak or Agfa, it was AWFUL!

Tebbiebear
4-Oct-2014, 01:30
Yet in 2014, compared to anything E-6 from Kodak it is WONDERFUL. :)

Andrea Gazzoni
6-Oct-2014, 02:49
backed! they're now only $50K from the goal

angusparker
9-Oct-2014, 20:56
Yet in 2014, compared to anything E-6 from Kodak it is WONDERFUL. :)

Ha!

Drew Wiley
10-Oct-2014, 11:29
It's all going to be acetate, so nothing appropriate for sheet film. And if it is a revival of Scotchrome, as they allege, it's well, uh,er... maybe more appropriate for the amateur market, if any of them are still shooting slides. More for fun or "creative" stuff than any realistic detour around Kodak or Fuji.

hoffner
10-Oct-2014, 14:22
I posted this on RFF earlier today. images from ScotchChrome that aren't cross-processed or all out of wack due to expiration / poor storage are hard to find, but I found this Flickr album (https://www.flickr.com/photos/mattbell/sets/72157624830527399/).

If it looks like that I'll be very happy.

The blues in your example look horrible. Like vomit. All I remember about Scotch chrome is that it was given as cheap peccadillo when your chromes were developed with delay by your local 24h.
One thing is trying to resurrect the national Italian pride, an other to come with a competitive product.

Corran
10-Oct-2014, 14:41
Well I disagree...

Come on, you are being a bit ridiculous.

hoffner
10-Oct-2014, 15:19
Well I disagree...

Come on, you are being a bit ridiculous.

Ridiculous is trying to present Scotch chrome as the reversal film of the future.

Corran
10-Oct-2014, 15:27
As opposed to what? Choice is good. New film is good. If you don't like it, fine, but why complain?

hoffner
10-Oct-2014, 15:58
I shoot on Provia 100 F. Don't even dream to change it for Scotch chrome made in Italy. Don't complain about it.

Deval
10-Oct-2014, 16:34
People aren't supporting it because they believe in scotch film as product. They are supporting because they believe in film photography and everything it stands for. Who says it's not improvable in the future or that they couldn't buy the recipe from a company that doesn't produce anymore. What's important is that they are presenting the ability to make reversal film. It might make fuji and Kodak to eventually take a look at the niche market carefully if it gains popularity. Instax has become hit for fuji... Its technical quality is nothing compared to type 55 but with some commercial success it may pave the road for better stuff.

Corran
10-Oct-2014, 20:49
I shoot on Provia 100 F. Don't even dream to change it for Scotch chrome made in Italy. Don't complain about it.

Not sure why you have a bad attitude about it.

+1 on Deval's post.

hoffner
10-Oct-2014, 23:17
People aren't supporting it because they believe in scotch film as product. They are supporting because they believe in film photography and everything it stands for. Who says it's not improvable in the future or that they couldn't buy the recipe from a company that doesn't produce anymore.

None of that is said anywhere. Continue to dream. Not even in its heyday was Scotch chrome regarded as a quality product for photographers able to compete with Fuji. If you know the present state of the Italian industry and its conditions you can easily stop dreaming and fall on the hard ground. The fact that these guys cry for Kickstarter help says it all about people's support.
Never mind, some of us love dreaming about the new (pretty old in fact) reversal film gaining popularity and being available for the next 100 years - from Italy and its healthy industrial environment with love.

axs810
11-Oct-2014, 16:34
Well they are $3,000 away from their goal with 17 days left :) ...even though I don't shoot slide film it's good to see new film products come to the market


+1 on deval's post


PS. hoffner, you're kind of negative man...Ferrania film may never be as good as Fuji when it comes to slide film but personally I'm excited to see a new film product come to the market. Whether the results are good or bad it looks like people are supporting it and to me that's a positive thing. I may never shoot what Ferrania makes but think of all those "lomo" and hobbyist film shooters... they aren't just helping support a new film stock but also labs that still process e6.

hoffner
12-Oct-2014, 03:28
PS. hoffner, you're kind of negative man...Ferrania film may never be as good as Fuji when it comes to slide film but personally I'm excited to see a new film product come to the market. Whether the results are good or bad it looks like people are supporting it and to me that's a positive thing. I may never shoot what Ferrania makes but think of all those "lomo" and hobbyist film shooters... they aren't just helping support a new film stock but also labs that still process e6.

Well, axs810,
chances are I just know more than you do. I lived in Italy, I speak the language and I follow daily and closely its economical and political situation. So unlike you I know that at the present time, there is 40 % unemployment among the young generation. Easy for them to want to dream. And at 12 % general unemployment in the country it's even easier. The fact that any Italian bank didn't find it reasonable to invest 250 000$ in this project says a lot about their chances.

While you're simply "excited" don't forget that three factories they need to have for their film production, will not pay salaries because you're excited but because the film will be sold. An awful plenty of it. While "you may never shoot Ferrania" they will need those who will shoot it. And to base their economy on future sales for today's film industry, in the time that digital filming takes over, is really just that - dreaming. That such dreaming excites you, let it be so. Do you think the old, now closed Ferrania factory, did not dream enough? Then dream even more.

Corran
12-Oct-2014, 07:22
Gosh, high unemployment? I guess I can see why we shouldn't invest in new business?! :confused:

hoffner
12-Oct-2014, 07:46
Gosh, high unemployment? I guess I can see why we shouldn't invest in new business?! :confused:

Maybe, just maybe, what you don't see is why we shouldn't invest in old crashed business in contemporary Italian industrial environment. With a hope of 100 more years of - the crashed business.

Corran
12-Oct-2014, 08:53
Maybe you're a curmudgeon? Don't you have anything else to do?

Sal Santamaura
12-Oct-2014, 08:55
It's difficult to put into words just how much pain I feel when having to agree with hoffner. :D

axs810
12-Oct-2014, 09:13
Well, axs810,
chances are I just know more than you do. I lived in Italy, I speak the language and I follow daily and closely its economical and political situation. So unlike you I know that at the present time, there is 40 % unemployment among the young generation. Easy for them to want to dream. And at 12 % general unemployment in the country it's even easier. The fact that any Italian bank didn't find it reasonable to invest 250 000$ in this project says a lot about their chances.

While you're simply "excited" don't forget that three factories they need to have for their film production, will not pay salaries because you're excited but because the film will be sold. An awful plenty of it. While "you may never shoot Ferrania" they will need those who will shoot it. And to base their economy on future sales for today's film industry, in the time that digital filming takes over, is really just that - dreaming. That such dreaming excites you, let it be so. Do you think the old, now closed Ferrania factory, did not dream enough? Then dream even more.


Hoffner, I wouldn't doubt a lot of people know more than I do. I'm just saying that when polaroid closed people thought that was over but then the impossible project came along. Again while I'm not using anything made by impossible project (I did buy a few packs to support it though) there are many many people who do support and buy from impossible project even though the quality may never be as good as the original polaroid. Heck even read up on the history of Lomography...that's a company that flabbergasts me. The pessimist in my would have expected that little niche market to die quickly but it didn't and there's still a pretty high demand for their products (to my knowledge)

I would recommend re-watching their kickstarter video...I believe they aren't running all three factories but are taking parts to keep a smaller factory running at a reasonable price. In my honest opinion, I'm just hoping this too becomes a little niche for amateurs all over the world who shoot film...not exactly for the sake of the life of film but for the labs that process film especially e6.

analoguey
12-Oct-2014, 09:54
It wasn't the pessimists who saw years of BTDT that made flight possible or spaceflight possible(among many many other things)
It was the optimists.

And re pessimism on a new film project - it serves well if you're on digital forum saying 'film sucks'.

Btw, if the comments on scotch chrome here are anything to go by - it would seem something that would wildly be popular for lomographers -and that, as we know now, is a very viable, young and *growing* market.

And its kickass that they got funded.
Anyone knows when the funds will be collected/charged to the bill?

koh303
12-Oct-2014, 09:56
Well, axs810,
chances are I just know more than you do. I lived in Italy, I speak the language and I follow daily and closely its economical and political situation. So unlike you I know that at the present time, there is 40 % unemployment among the young generation. Easy for them to want to dream. And at 12 % general unemployment in the country it's even easier. The fact that any Italian bank didn't find it reasonable to invest 250 000$ in this project says a lot about their chances.

While you're simply "excited" don't forget that three factories they need to have for their film production, will not pay salaries because you're excited but because the film will be sold. An awful plenty of it. While "you may never shoot Ferrania" they will need those who will shoot it. And to base their economy on future sales for today's film industry, in the time that digital filming takes over, is really just that - dreaming. That such dreaming excites you, let it be so. Do you think the old, now closed Ferrania factory, did not dream enough? Then dream even more.

This is amazing, and sounds like fairly typical European babble. Who said they did not approach a bank and got funding for a 1M$ project, but decided that Kickstarter, is a free market research tool, which can easily determine the existence (or lack thereof) and size of a market, for any specific product, not yet in existence, without risking even a single dollar. Using kickstarter is not a sign that someone is lacking funding, or has no other source of revenue, it really does not mean a thing. In most high number cases, its purely promotional (see lomo/music projects) and pre sale platform for products before they are even produced. The cost saving here is immense, and offers any manufacturer huge benefits not available in the traditional financial world, about with you read daily and follow so diligently.

We live in the age of information, where there are no borders, no national unemployment rates, but only dollar signs (you need to watch "network"). In this world, the digital transition has already happened, by far and large, in all aspects and avenues except in some backwards 3rd world countries such as where NFL is filmed, and even there - they have recently announced that is in the past.

The new market base for traditional photographic products is no longer in major commercial and business clients, yet in its new model, of small, sustainable custom made production capacity - it is thriving, money is being made, and companies (especially in Europe, but some smaller scale in the US as well), are catering to those markets, offering a large variety, which is larger then before, though not as varied as it once perhaps was. And that does not say a thing about the growth prospects of this fairly minor industry, but from my perspective the growth and revenue to be made, should have banks banging on Ferranias door asking to take part in what might be a major job/tax/revenue maker for all involved. So far - the local government has helped and invested heavily and they are not being charitable.

Kodak anf Fuji are companies which have nothing to do with film anymore, and their business model has no place in our economy any longer. Models like the one Ferania is offering, along with Rollei/new Agfa/LOMO/ADOX etc., are purely designed to be sustainable on a no MOQ basis, which is why they can survive, make money and grow.

analoguey
12-Oct-2014, 09:59
+1

(whats MOQ expand to, btw?)

hoffner
12-Oct-2014, 10:43
This is amazing, and sounds like fairly typical European babble.

, but from my perspective the growth and revenue to be made, should have banks banging on Ferranias door asking to take part in what might be a major job/tax/revenue maker for all involved. So far - the local government has helped and invested heavily and they are not being charitable.

.

This is amazing! You sound like the one who knows a lot. Why don't you advice the Italian banks, (with or without the fairly typical European babble) to bet on this fantastic business model (Ferrania for 100 more years!) and tell them to make some money in the process? Do it, if not for being charitable, for the sake of the film future, this forum, its members, the E6 labs etc. etc. Chances are the banks will be impressed even more than I am by "your perspective". If only more of the members could see things as clearly as you do, the film industry would be changed! Oh well, I said it all.

koh303
12-Oct-2014, 11:10
Oh well, I said it all.

I must be missing something.

Andrea Gazzoni
13-Oct-2014, 05:52
now if only there was a similar plan to save Ilfochrome production...could be an idea for the next Kickstarter

Corran
15-Oct-2014, 14:17
Well funding has been met! Very interested to see how this film performs, and what Ferrania does in the future.

plywood
16-Oct-2014, 05:31
Well funding has been met! Very interested to see how this film performs, and what Ferrania does in the future.

Indeed. I hope they do well. My inclination has been to back it on principal even though I don't use slide film. The missus however is skeptical and keeps asking "Did you ever get that camera?!!",meaning of course, the Travelwide. I've tried to help her understand the reasons for the delays but she is just not a 'camera person'. Slide film is very expensive to shoot on a per frame basis so I think that if I wanted to experiment with slide film I'd want something bigger than 35mm and would load up a 120 camera that could shoot in 6X6 format. In the survey they sent I indicated I was always interested in B&W although I don't think they made that even when they were in business years ago.

jp
16-Oct-2014, 06:21
I don't use slide film now, but scotch sold decent film I used to use once in a while. 3M rarely makes anything badly.

Delfi_r
16-Oct-2014, 06:26
When 3M purchased Ferrania colorfilm was the consumers choice. Slidefilm is needed for 8mm and 16mm film shooters. So I understand that their first efforts will be on the positive film production, but if they succeed the negative color film will come and for the B&W there are other sources and if there is space.... why not.

One year or two more and we'll see.

plywood
16-Oct-2014, 09:56
My memory could very well be faulty but it seems that the faster Scotch Chrome was favored by hobby astrophotographers when it was current back in the 70's and 80's. A fast medium telephoto and barn door drive could capture some brighter deep sky objects in a 5 to 15 min. exposure time. That was with the 640 ASA (ISO) tungsten balanced material.