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bubblecatcher
24-Sep-2014, 03:59
Hi, i have just acquired a second epson 4800 that i wish to dedicate to black and white printing, but am unsure of which ink set to go with

Paul Roark EB6
or
piezography K7

both look very good when used with QTR.

I currently use epson ABW with Canson platine fibre rag, but understand that canson rag photogaphique is very good.

Does anyone know where i can example prints of both ink sets?

I understand that with the K7 i can create glossy BW print using the gloss over print. The EB6 is matte only, but can print on glossy paper?

If anyone has used both some pros and cons would be appriciated.

thanks

Lenny Eiger
24-Sep-2014, 10:20
I have a preference for Cone. I've used both... It's very simple, interchangeable, etc.

Lenny

Ken Lee
24-Sep-2014, 14:41
There are several areas of concern.

One is the issue of accommodating non-OEM ink cartridges to different printers and circumventing the chips found in OEM cartridges. Every printer is different and your solution provider will have to get you over that hurdle. With the Eboni solution you'll be working with the provider of your cartridges. I've have excellent support from Ross Hardie at InkjetCarts.us, and there have been several stages at which phone support has been required. With Piezography that is handled for you.

Another issue is profiling various papers, working with a tool like Quadtone RIP etc. With the Eboni solution, you're on your own from the start, unless you choose one of the papers that has already been profiled for your printer. There were none for mine and I got help from forum members here as well as on the QTR forum. I had to purchase a spectrophotometer.

The issue of determining which inks actually look best to you on which papers, can only come after you've jumped over the previous 2 hurdles.

A final issue is cost: once you get past the other issues, which provider is cheapest ? Is your time valuable ? Do you want to spend your time making profiles and fiddling with chips and cartridges, or would you rather pay for the convenience of a turnkey solution ?

Working with the Eboni 6 solution, you'll be dependent on technical support from colleagues found on forums. You may also be dependent at times on the provider of your cartridges to help you through the process of turning your printer into something it was designed to prevent. There's no one person or business to whom you can refer in a pinch. If you're not blessed with patience, you may find it all rather exasperating. If you are a natural troubleshooter, you might find it enjoyable and challenging.

I went with the Eboni approach, and like the results. It was certainly a longer and harder approach, but it has been rewarding. Had I been in a hurry, I would have chosen the Pieozography solution and would have likely lost less sleep and done less cussing.

You might find this brief article (http://www.kenleegallery.com/html/carbon/index.php) interesting.

One thing I can tell you, is that whichever you choose, no longer having to buy expensive ink in little cartridges which end up in a landfill - is a reward in itself. Lack of image fading is another.

Ken Lee
25-Sep-2014, 10:15
I should add that Epson inks with Canson Platine is a nice combination. The issues I found with that approach were as follows:

1) Epson inks will fade at different rates. Over time your monochrome images will exhibit non-linear color-shift. This has been documented at Aardenburg imaging. I presume it's due to their being composed of both dyes and pigments, but it's probably more complicated than that.

2) Epson inks exhibit metamerism: the slightly warm-toned images I have made look perfect under daylight, but can sometimes take on a magenta cast under incandescent light.

3) Epson inks are not inexpensive.

Peter De Smidt
25-Sep-2014, 16:22
I've used both and have a preference for Eboni on Epson Hot Press Natural. It's a just slightly warm pure carbon ink print on cotton paper. As far as I know, going cooler would require adding dyes, as the HP 'pigments' do. That said, I wouldn't use Eboni on PK papers. It would have to be sprayed or something so that the pigment would stick to the paper. This would be fussy, the image would be very much on top of the paper, and laminating sprays have lots of downsides.

Lenny Eiger
25-Sep-2014, 17:57
There are always lots of caveats with the MIS solutions. I won't say its impossible to get it to work, but if I was starting, I'd want the one that was easy, where the research had been done, where it was all balanced, it had a variety of colors from warm to cool, which could be mixed together, split-toned even, and that had a series of profiles all ready to go.

I've mixed my own inks up from scratch, using solutions from both Cone and MIS, different color mixes and clear base fluid. I used a magnetic stirrer, and drawdown bars to get things balance - a total pain. I had to extrapolate the actual densities from to what a printer would do from the drawdown... I did all that it was because Cone only had 4 tones back in the day. I am very happy to be back with stock Cone ink sets, now that there are 7 tones.

There's nothing wrong with going down a path to see what can happen, but if you want excellent results in less time, do yourself a few favors, and get what works...

Just my opinion.

Lenny

Peter De Smidt
25-Sep-2014, 20:49
Lenny, have you used Eboni-6? When did you last try MIS products?

Note that of the Piezography inks, only the Carbon K7/K6 inks (formerly Sepia K7/K6) pure carbon inks. They tend to be warmer than Eboni, which is good or bad depending on what you want. No variable tone (on the same paper, anyway) ink set will be pure carbon pigment. With carbon ink sets you control tone by paper choice. There's also a bit of leeway with ink dilutions. Some print warmer than others. Arches water color paper and Epson Hot Press Natural print the most neutral of all non-brightened papers that I'm aware of.

I agree with Ken's comments, with the proviso that Cone's system is only plug-and-play if you use ink/paper combos that he's profiled. If you use a non-profiled paper, you'll have to pay to have it profiled. With Eboni, if you use Paul Roarks's recommendation (printer, dilutions, paper) then it too is plug-and-play. It's only if you change things up that you'll have to do the whole QTR enchilada. It's not very intuitive, but it's not rocket science either. It takes experimentation. It took me a day to fine-tune my custom Eboni setup.

All I buy from MIS is Eboni black ink and their clear base. I make the dilutions myself. I have a magnetic stirrer, but there's no need for one with Eboni dilutions.

If you don't mind some tinkering, you want maximum longevity, you want as neutral of pure carbon prints that you can get, and you want to save some money, then Eboni is a great choice. If you don't want those things, then one of the Piezography ink sets would be a better choice.

Note that MIS has pure carbon ink (not Eboni) for PK papers, but these print very warm.

Lenny Eiger
26-Sep-2014, 09:38
Lenny, have you used Eboni-6? When did you last try MIS products?

It's been a while. I got burned badly when they converted the Eboni from a prior version. My base fluid turned it into a globular jello and I couldn't get any base fluid from them. I was out of commission for a bit. That's when I changed back to Cone, from making my own mix with MIS. I had to reprofile everything, prints that were re-ordered had to be redone, etc., etc. Now they sell base fluid and its better.

Over the years I read about Paul's earlier strategy for printing and I thought it overly cumbersome. Of course, your method, one ink, is as simple as it gets, that's great. With a little work I am sure anyone could get it to work. As photographers, we all know how to use a graduate, or a scale, etc. However, it does lock you in to one color scheme. If you like it, great...

Cone has a variety of colors, special edition inks, etc., and everything is balanced. You can swap out a color in channel 3 for another, or you can mix 3/4 warm neutral and a bit of selenium to get just exactly what you want. I have done so much research on all of this, I'm actually kind of tired of it. I'd just like to make some prints now, and easy is the order of the day, provided it works with excellent quality, of course.

I tend to trust Jon Cone a bit more with his quality control. It's probably because I know him personally and I know his commitment to getting this right. He's been at the forefront of b&w inks since the beginning, had to fight for it every step of the way (yes, with Epson) and I want to support his efforts. Without these efforts, no one would be able to put alternate inks in a printer today.

I think Epson is an ignorant company. Instead of trying to put Cone out of business, they should have worked together with him, and put out a "Jon Cone edition" black and white printer with Cone's inks. Sort of like the "Eddie Bauer" Jeep that was so popular in the 90's. A Jon Cone printer would have sold a tremendous amount. They were too self absorbed to see it.

Hoep that explains some of this...

Lenny

SergeiR
26-Sep-2014, 09:50
I had really good results with EB6 and Red River, while it worked. Then cartridges gone funny and i never seem to get it right since :(

sanking
26-Sep-2014, 13:07
.......
Cone has a variety of colors, special edition inks, etc., and everything is balanced. You can swap out a color in channel 3 for another, or you can mix 3/4 warm neutral and a bit of selenium to get just exactly what you want. I have done so much research on all of this, I'm actually kind of tired of it. I'd just like to make some prints now, and easy is the order of the day, provided it works with excellent quality, of course.

I tend to trust Jon Cone a bit more with his quality control. It's probably because I know him personally and I know his commitment to getting this right. He's been at the forefront of b&w inks since the beginning, had to fight for it every step of the way (yes, with Epson) and I want to support his efforts. Without these efforts, no one would be able to put alternate inks in a printer today.

........
Lenny

I use the Cone K7 inks, now with mostly pure carbon ink shades. One thing that should be mentioned is that you can begin with the Cone inks and the pre-loaded profiles and then develop your own profiles with the regular QTR tools. One of the features of the K7 system that I don't like is the fact that the Cone profiles are not user modifiable, at least not easily. With my own profiles made with Harrington's regular QTR tools it is possible to quickly create a profile for another paper. So there is some sense in the path that Ken and Peter have taken in learning to fish rather than just eating the fish.

Sandy

Ken Lee
26-Sep-2014, 13:41
I had really good results with EB6 and Red River, while it worked. Then cartridges gone funny and i never seem to get it right since :(

Whose cartridges did you use ? I've been working with a cartridge issue for a week: the printer thinks that 2 of the cartridges are empty, and tells me to replace them. Of course, they are not Epson cartridges, and they are not empty either. When I am able to make a print it looks solarized because 2 of the 6 tones are missing. It's a nice technique to know about, but I would prefer it were optional :rolleyes:

SergeiR
26-Sep-2014, 14:01
Ken, I used MSI cartridges that came with EB6 kit. "Yellow" one at some point will keep reporting that its completely empty, no matter what i did.
I got irritated, left it for like a week, reinserted cartridges few times, and then it started smudging like no tomorrow. Gave up, put back actual Epson ones and been printing fine since. I got some spare ones i think, so i am going to try this weekend again, b/c i certainly shoot more b&w than colour again.

I suspect you got better printer than my squiggly Artisan 1430 :) So may be there is difference. I also never ever managed to get QuadRIP stuff to work for me with that printer and OSX.. But like i said, while EB6 did work - it was great. Everyone loved prints and Satin Pro form RedRiver gave fantastic warm carbon tones ;)

Peter De Smidt
26-Sep-2014, 14:59
Cartridges come with either auto-reset chips or manual reset chips. If the later, then you need the appropriate chip re-setter. They are inexpensive and work well. If you have auto-reset chips, and they don't reset, unplug your printer, wait 30 seconds, and plug it in again. The empty one should reset. If not, talk to the place you bought the cartridges from. You can replace the chips if needed.

Luckily, I can turn off the chip reader on my 7600, and hence not have to worry about the chips, but I don't think you can on newer printers.

onnect17
26-Sep-2014, 19:17
Few yeas back I read Paul Roark notes about mixing the base for the inks. Then, using expired epson matte inks, I dilute the ink with the base to create 7 shades. The whole set only requires 2 matte cartridges, one for the matte position and the other to prepare the dilutions.
The best part is that I am refilling the original epson cartridges so there is no container with air/ink contents.
Also the cost per ink set is very low:
2 x 220ml of expired matte ink, $10-$40
300ml of glycerin, $4
100ml glycerin, $2
Distilled water, $1

So far 3 years in a 7600 and now in a 9600.

Check this thread for more info:
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?114378-Converting-a-printer-to-Piezography-printer&highlight=Piezography

Peter De Smidt
26-Sep-2014, 20:16
Isn't there supposed to be some Photo Flo in there? What image color do you get with the Epson matte black dilutions?

onnect17
27-Sep-2014, 05:19
Sorry for the error typing. It should read:

2 x 220ml of expired matte ink, $10-$40
300ml of glycerin, $4
100ml Photo-Flo, $2
Distilled water, $1

The amounts are an estimate. The actual formula for the base is just a mix of 35% glycerin, 10% photo-flo and the rest distilled water. I use plastic syringes to refill the cartridges and a scale to check the volume of ink inside. I printed a table with weight-to-inkvolume values to make it easier.

The color in the images depends on the media. A warm tone paper will give you a warm print. A normal paper as Epson Matte will show quite neutral.

Keep in mind that during the inks conversion to BW any remain of color ink in the cartridges, lines and dumpers would show as a color cast. To minimize it:
- properly wash the ink cartridges after extracting the color ink.
- load enough base in the cartridges and run a 'ink initialization' to flush the lines and dumpers.
- you can also replace the dumpers if it is not too complicated, depending on the printer model.

Ken Lee
27-Sep-2014, 07:12
Cartridges come with either auto-reset chips or manual reset chips. If the later, then you need the appropriate chip re-setter. They are inexpensive and work well. If you have auto-reset chips, and they don't reset, unplug your printer, wait 30 seconds, and plug it in again. The empty one should reset. If not, talk to the place you bought the cartridges from. You can replace the chips if needed.

Luckily, I can turn off the chip reader on my 7600, and hence not have to worry about the chips, but I don't think you can on newer printers.

Mine come from InkjetCarts.us, and are apparently the same as sold by InkRepublic.com. With this setup you remove Epson chips from Epson cartridges and put them on the 3rd-party cartridges, covering part of the chip with a small piece of tape. They also provide you 2 "master-chipped" cartridges.

In this approach, there is no resetting of chips per se, but an installation procedure which somehow tricks the printer into thinking that you've got Epson cartridges. See http://www.inkrepublic.com/KnowledgeBase/3800-irefill-faq.asp. The trouble is, after around 1 year of success with this method, it no longer seems to be working.

sanking
27-Sep-2014, 07:35
Ken,

I used the 80ml refillable cartridges from inkjet.mall with a 3800 and 3880 over a period of two or three years and did not have any trouble at all with the system.

Product Name: Empty Refillable cartridge set for Epson 3880
Item SKU#: RCS-3880-80-KIT9-NS

I did have problems with pizza wheel marks with these printers and eventually decided to move to another system (larger printer with suction). But the Cone cartridge system worked great, and there is an excellent support system from the Cone staff, and Jon Cone himself.

Sandy

Peter De Smidt
27-Sep-2014, 08:05
I've not seen that method with the chips before.

I'm assuming that you followed the steps listed in the link? It looks like it wouldn't be hard to replace the chips.

Currently, my 4880 is in storage. I used funnel fill clear cartridges with it. When installed, the printer would say "Non-Epson ..... Continue Yes/No?". Clicking "yes" allowed everything to go forward.

I bought my cartridges directly from China. Everything went ok, except with my second order two of the cartridges were for a different printer. They sent out replacements twice. Both times they were still the same ones. .... So, if I bought refillable cartridges again, I'd be very tempted to get them from Inkjetmall, even though they're very expensive.

sanking
27-Sep-2014, 08:29
The best part is that I am refilling the original epson cartridges so there is no container with air/ink contents.



Armando,

I would like to refill the original Epson cartrdiges of the 7800, but there seems to be some type of valve in there that needs to be removed. Have you done this? If so, could you tell me how it is done?

Sandy

Peter De Smidt
27-Sep-2014, 08:35
You use a bottom fill adapter. See: http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Modified-Bottom-Fill-Adapter.pdf

sanking
27-Sep-2014, 08:58
You use a bottom fill adapter. See: http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Modified-Bottom-Fill-Adapter.pdf

I have used that adapter for filling 7600 cartrdiges, and it works like a charm. However, the 7800/7880 cartrdiges appears to have an additional valve that won't allow the adapter to penetrate?

Sandy

Ken Lee
27-Sep-2014, 11:14
Ken,

I used the 80ml refillable cartridges from inkjet.mall with a 3800 and 3880 over a period of two or three years and did not have any trouble at all with the system.

Product Name: Empty Refillable cartridge set for Epson 3880
Item SKU#: RCS-3880-80-KIT9-NS

I did have problems with pizza wheel marks with these printers and eventually decided to move to another system (larger printer with suction). But the Cone cartridge system worked great, and there is an excellent support system from the Cone staff, and Jon Cone himself.

Sandy

Thanks a lot Sandy ! If I can't get this resolved soon I'll try their cartridges. Customer support and expertise is very important.

Willie
27-Sep-2014, 11:24
When you get prints don't refer to them as "carbon prints". That is a term for the type Sandy King does, not the digital prints that use carbon inksets.

Ken Lee
27-Sep-2014, 12:50
When you get prints don't refer to them as "carbon prints". That is a term for the type Sandy King does, not the digital prints that use carbon inksets.

You probably didn't intend to sound rude, but were merely trying to be helpful.

Other than in post #7, the term "carbon prints" has not been used in this thread. In that post, Peter was discussing prints whose color is that of "pure carbon", as opposed to those made with inks to which additional pigments have been added.

For the record, some Carbon printers use secondary pigments too. That's how they tone their Carbon prints. They add other pigments to the... "glop". Here is a nice example (http://sandykingphotography.com/photography-portfolio/carbon-transfer/Photographs/1512-angel).

Peter De Smidt
27-Sep-2014, 13:16
I certainly don't want to blur the distinction between the wonderful carbon transfer prints that Sandy makes and inkjet prints made with a carbon pigment ink set.

sanking
27-Sep-2014, 13:58
The carbon printing process as originally invented by Louis Poitevin was a direct printing process more like gum bichromate (and Fresson, Artigue, etc.) than what we call today carbon transfer. An important characteristic of carbon transfer is that the pigmented gelatin image is actually transferred from the original support to a final support.

During the 1930s and 1940s three-color color carbon and carbro were the premier color printing systems in the world, even though the cyan, magenta and yellow tissues used in the assembly process used little or no "carbon" pigment.

It is important in carbon transfer to use pigments that have good light fastness, but not so critical as in making pigment prints with inkjet printers. In carbon transfer printing the agglomerate size itself provides a fair amount of protection from fading due to exposure to light.

Sandy

Ken Lee
27-Sep-2014, 15:11
Ken,

I used the 80ml refillable cartridges from inkjet.mall with a 3800 and 3880 over a period of two or three years and did not have any trouble at all with the system.

Product Name: Empty Refillable cartridge set for Epson 3880
Item SKU#: RCS-3880-80-KIT9-NS

I did have problems with pizza wheel marks with these printers and eventually decided to move to another system (larger printer with suction). But the Cone cartridge system worked great, and there is an excellent support system from the Cone staff, and Jon Cone himself.

Eureka - sort of.

I started all over and installed the cartridges as if for the first time, and somehow managed to fool the printer to start working again. Not exactly a glowing recommendation.

I think I'll give the Cone cartridge system a try (but keep using Eboni inks and my existing profiles). The stress-relief alone is worth the expense.

Peter De Smidt
27-Sep-2014, 15:40
That's good to hear!

onnect17
27-Sep-2014, 19:58
Armando,

I would like to refill the original Epson cartrdiges of the 7800, but there seems to be some type of valve in there that needs to be removed. Have you done this? If so, could you tell me how it is done?

Sandy
Hi Sandy,
I use the same cartridges in a 9800. Hold the cartridge with the valve facing up and using an awl, lift the cap from the valve and carefully remove the rubber seal, the plug and spring. Now introduce the awl in the conduct until you feel it perforates a little the end. Now reinstall everything back, spring, plug (spherical side up), rubber seal and cap.

I would recommend to practice first with an empty cartridge. Here are couple of shots showing the tool and the parts.

122433
122432
122431

Ken Lee
29-Sep-2014, 06:49
What is a good printer which can be used with QTR and Carbon inks, which will make prints larger than 16x20 ?

Tyler Boley
29-Sep-2014, 08:58
You have to go to the 24"printers, which will either be free standing or require a fair amount of table space. Options are-
7600- reliable old model, easy to fix yourself, resale value in the toilet, you should be able to find one for the cost of coming to pick it up. I had to give my 9600 to a school. But they have been around a long time, so head replacement may be in your future. Simple gravity design, none of the problem dual bag pressure systems. You can turn off the counters so no pesky chip resetting. Getting hard to find used in decent condition.
7800- Not bad, next model. Went to a pressurized system so lightly more complicated. Not hard to work on yourself. Will require chip resetting. With all of these I'd check with Compass Micro about parts availability. Things like dampers, capping stations, wiper blades. Heads too, but I'm not sure you can get them. I found my 9800 a bit more nozzle problem prone than the 9600, but it could have been individual quirks. I still have a 7800 waiting for me to get back online, I like the printer. You should be able to get one for well under $1k, maybe $500.
7880- Much like the 7800 but slight changes, one was teflon coated heads. Seems to have stepped up the nozzle performance dramatically, mine (9880) can sit for days and start up with perfect nozzles. I get maybe one jet drop out once a week or so, fixed with one cleaning cycle. My 9880 is the most problem free Epson of any I've ever owned. Jon Cone was so impressed with how good these were he warehoused a bunch of them before the line was dropped. Not sure of used market price.
7890- I wouldn't touch one of these, but there are always those who get good ones. These and the x900s have a new much more complex pressure, damper, and valve systems that can be very problematic. They are much more difficult to service yourself.
7900- same problems, but also plagued with very bad head reliability reputation. Many more ink slots, much more complex build. My 9900 was the least reliable Epson I've ever owned, and was in pieces on the floor the first month I owned it, the tech and I became friends, he nearly moved in. Once "fixed" I was still plagued with daily constant nozzle headstands and incantations.
The Canons have an ink buffer making it impossible to use custom ink sets, a real shame because they are good machines.
Hope I've covered the basics.

Added note- Oops, I assumed "larger the 16x20" meant the 17" printers would not be in the running, they're really pretty much at that size.

Peter De Smidt
29-Sep-2014, 10:27
Tyler gave a great summary. I use a 7600. It had very low use, but it had sat for a number of years. It took a few weeks, going slowly, to get it working properly. I wasn't in hurry, and 99% of the time was spent with the printer sitting with cleaning fluid in it. There are good tutorials online for dismantling it and maintenance. Dismantling it the first time took about an hour. I removed the ink lines to the dampers and pulled cleaning fluid, using a syringe, through the lines to clear them. I didn't want that gunk being pushed into the dampers and heads. After that, I ran an initial fill, followed by a few days of waiting. I have spare set of cartridges which I load with storage solution if the printer has to sit for a couple of months.

Ken Lee
29-Sep-2014, 11:26
To quote the vernacular... OMG

Ken Lee
29-Sep-2014, 17:08
Tyler and Peter, after reading your posts, my 16x20 prints are starting to look pretty nice. :rolleyes:

onnect17
29-Sep-2014, 19:01
Ken, Do not let the technical stuff scare you. Once you get a big print out of a 9600 your face will be in the smile mode for a while. Worth every effort. Let me know if you need help checking out one for sale. Craigslist is a good source. I have an old van I can use to move it.

Ken Lee
30-Sep-2014, 09:06
I believe you about the beauty of large prints.

On the other hand I'm not sure I want to spend a lot of time worrying about printer issues, watching the printer become obsolete according to an 18-month product cycle (or shorter) etc.

That's why I've never sunk substantial money into digital camera equipment: it's obsolete as soon as you buy it, and bugs are worked out in the "next version". According to Tyler's description, even that may not be exactly true.

sanking
30-Sep-2014, 11:19
"On the other hand I'm not sure I want to spend a lot of time worrying about printer issues, watching the printer become obsolete according to an 18-month product cycle (or shorter) etc."


Printer issues are one thing. Some people appear to have a lot of problems with printers, others little or none. I have an Epson 7600 and 7800, both purchased used for much less than the cost of an Epson 3880 new, and have had virtually no problems with either printers. The dampers were replaced on the 7600, and no other maintenance in about five years, and it is 15 years old. The 7800, which is about ten years old, was purchased about two years ago from an original owner, and has never had a clogged nozzle.

In terms of image quality either the 7600 or 7800, with an all gray ink set, will make prints as good as the latest Epson printers so I don't consider them obsolete, and with a total investment of less than $1k I am happy. But sure wish I could get my money back on the two 3800/3880 printers that went belly up on me!!

Sandy

paulr
30-Sep-2014, 13:17
Climate is one of the best predictors of printer trouble. If you live someplace dry, or without much climate control (big season-to-season humidity swings) you're more likely to have clogs than someone who lives in New Orleans.

Another predictor is your printing schedule. If the thing never sits idle for more than a few days, you'll do better than someone who prints only occasionally.

I count among the printer-abusers. I live without humidity control in a place with cold winters, and sometimes many weeks will go by between printing projects. My first piezography printer (epson 1280) got so clogged after a season of non-use that I had to throw it out. But that was a low quality printer, with a Cone ink set from several generations ago.

My 3880 is set up for color, so I can't vouch for it with monochrome inks. As a color printer, though, I can say that it's the most clog-free printer I've used. I never have clogging troubles. It might need a single cleaning cycle after sitting idle for a couple of months, but that's it. I've had some other problems with 3880s ... error messages that wouldn't go away, etc.. These led to warranty replacements.

Tyler Boley
1-Oct-2014, 09:43
any craft requires commitment to learning and maintenancing the tools, some are finicky. Comes with the territory. We are making these things work in ways the manufacturer did not intend, and have to accept the consequences. Admittedly, sometimes the problems are ridiculous and I've had days I want to walk away from it, but mostly it works with some care, knowledge, and feeding.

I hear that apparently, also, you can just hit "print".

Lenny Eiger
2-Oct-2014, 10:11
I found Tyler's explanation of different models and their reliability very interesting. I think it's spot on (no surprise there), with one caveat. i think there are good printers and bad printers. I had a 7500 (which was the best of the lot) a 10,000, a 9600 and a couple of Roland's. The Roland's are a much higher quality overall, much easier to work with and to clean, its a real shame they were forced out of the fine art market by Epson. Software is not going to be available going forward, and they will not move to higher dot counts so I can't recommend them for new purchases. However, I digress...

I think there are 9600 units that were excellent and others that were not. There are people that had no issues with their 9600, but I am not one of them. I spent an inordinate amount of time replacing dampers, running power clean cycles, replacing the absorbent material in that ridiculous cleaning cartridge (finally just used paper towels) and everything else. I bought chip resetters, and took the thing apart multiple times. It did make some very nice prints when it ran right but I was happy to be rid of it when I sold it to someone who wanted to tinker....

I think if you get a good Epson, it means all the tolerances in the machine lined up just right; and you should keep it running and hold on to it. On the other hand if you have a machine that you are having consistent trouble with, get rid of it and get another one with a warranty on it. Then at least you will know by the time the warranty runs out whether its a good one or not.

Lenny

SergeiR
6-Oct-2014, 08:05
Got fresh cartridges, re-tuned my 1430 and happily printing printing again with EB6. No smudges, very nice "silvery-feeling" prints.

Peter De Smidt
6-Oct-2014, 10:00
That's good to hear, Sergei!

SergeiR
6-Oct-2014, 12:32
Thanks, Peter.

Now next quest is to get Q-Rip thingy to work with Maverick, as i keep hearing that its superior to regular printing with normal drivers :)