20x24 In Practice

[SLVRGLTN]

I'm looking for people who shoot ULF 20x24 specifically if your using traditional negatives to make platinum/palladium prints or any other alternative prints. Please share your images and any thoughts on the practice of using the format in practice for landscapes,still life and more. Also share the lenses and cameras you currently use or are available in today's market. I'm interested in any information that can be shared, it's greatly appreciated

Thanks Brian

[Monty McCutchen]

Brian,

Good luck with your pursuits, 20 x 24 can be quite a bit of fun, but its not without its warts. Time, energy, and space all become exponentially more present in your thought process. I find those thoughts manifesting themselves most often in how it relates to inertia. Once I overcome that there is nothing better than working with the big ground glass and all of the work is of course worth it to me. There are times though when its all just more than I want to handle and I'll find imagery that day/session that will work with my 10 x 12 and/or 7 x 17 formats. I shoot both traditional silver negatives (Ilford fp4 and the occasional hp5) and Wet Plate Collodion (most often ambrotypes, tintypes, and alumitypes) with the 20 x 24. Not sure what you have worked through yet and don't wish to talk down to what you have already considered but darkroom space becomes a big issue, at least to work in this format with a system that is conducive to not fighting the room. Of course any obstacle can be overcome with enough zealous desire to be successful so my thoughts relate to best case scenario in which your concerns are about the negative shadow/highlight details etc and not whether you are going to spill water, chemistry, etc. because your set up is too small--it takes space and plenty of it. I have 18 feet of 36 inch deep sinks. I wish I had one more run of that to be honest but the room wouldn't allow it. 22 x 30 Hypo trays are what I develop in (Jobo too when its not throwing a fit). The Hypo trays are built thicker and have high walls to accommodate the momentum of the volume of liquid that is sloshing back and forth. You will lose the battle with the tray if you get traditional development trays as the water/chemistry has too much slippery strength to control, YMMV of course. If you get a print washer (outside of said Hypo tray with a syphon) it will be very big as well. Enough there I suppose.

I have been shooting 20 x 24 for close to a decade and when I bought there were less company's offering such large cameras. I bought an Ebony. Now of course you can get a Richard Ritter camera, Canham has an all metal version, Chamonix makes beautiful cameras, and you might still be able to find Lotus making large cameras, and Ebony still offers theirs.

I had two AWB holders made that have fared very well. He also made my Wet Plate holder which is starting to show the wear of the large amounts of silver which is corrosive.

My lens kit is 1000 mm Germonar, Schneider 550 xxl Fine Art, and a 355 G-Claron for 2x's life size portraits for the Negative captures,

and for my Wet Plate work a Dallmeyer 8D, Dallmeyer 30 inch RR.

May be way more information than you were looking for.

Here are some examples;

121255121256121257121258


The first two are Wet Plate Collodion, the last two Gumover Platinum/Palladiums

I'll post some landscapes in another reply

best of luck,

Monty

[Monty McCutchen]

Sorry the digital files I had for those landscapes are too big for the guidelines here.

If you pm me I can send via email some examples of landscapes if that interests you.

I don't digitize much of this work as it is just too big for a scanner job and taking good digi pics of them is a frustrating skill that most often shows my limitations with a digital camera.

Monty

[Ari]

Yikes, Monty, these are beautiful!
Back to tech talk.

[David Lobato]

Monty, where do you find a contact print frame that big? Make it yourself? Or use a vacuum based frame instead?

I have a derelict 12x20 camera that needs more TLC than I have time for, and came with a good film holder (which is as large as my 25 inch monitor, no kidding). So I can appreciate the size logistics. Not until I have ample darkroom square footage will I attempt to rebuild and use it.

[Monty McCutchen]

Ari,

Thank you.

David, for years I used a NuArk 261ks but the light fall off towards the edges was noticeable in landscapes and architecture shots. Not so noticeable in Portraits but enough in the other disciplines that I ponied up and bought the Amergraph a couple of years ago. It has a bigger bed which allows for a paper relief which is also nice and the light distribution is much more even.

Monty

[SergeiR]

Sorry the digital files I had for those landscapes are too big for the guidelines here.

If you pm me I can send via email some examples of landscapes if that interests you.

I don't digitize much of this work as it is just too big for a scanner job and taking good digi pics of them is a frustrating skill that most often shows my limitations with a digital camera.

Monty

Love 2nd & 4th portrait. Just saying :) I got to solve space issues with my new location to start dabbing into 20x24 again! :)

[SLVRGLTN]

Monty,

Your pm box is full,

I'm going to do double duty on 2 ULF Formats I'm saving up for a 12x20 first but as I buy lenses I'm making sure they can cover both 12x20 & 20x24 formats. Both will be used in different manners depending on the subject matter but mainly I will be photographing Still Life,Abstracts,Landscapes and the occasional Portrait. I will be making mostly Alternative prints like Pt/Pd, Carbon,Salt & Cyanotypes. With the occasional silver gelatin, some may think I'm taking on to much but I love a challenge. I know that the darkroom space is a big factor but I'm looking at my options and figuring out what I will need and what I don't need.

[John Jarosz]

Even with a 'small' ULF format like 8x20 I find that processing is more crucial to success than anything else. Monty's response about process tray size is extremely important if you are interested in uniformity of development. 20x24 is immense. You must have darkroom space to be able to maneuver. Maybe this is obvious, I don't think it can be understated.

[zenny]

Brian,

Good luck with your pursuits, 20 x 24 can be quite a bit of fun, but its not without its warts. Time, energy, and space all become exponentially more present in your thought process. I find those thoughts manifesting themselves most often in how it relates to inertia. Once I overcome that there is nothing better than working with the big ground glass and all of the work is of course worth it to me. There are times though when its all just more than I want to handle and I'll find imagery that day/session that will work with my 10 x 12 and/or 7 x 17 formats. I shoot both traditional silver negatives (Ilford fp4 and the occasional hp5) and Wet Plate Collodion (most often ambrotypes, tintypes, and alumitypes) with the 20 x 24. Not sure what you have worked through yet and don't wish to talk down to what you have already considered but darkroom space becomes a big issue, at least to work in this format with a system that is conducive to not fighting the room. Of course any obstacle can be overcome with enough zealous desire to be successful so my thoughts relate to best case scenario in which your concerns are about the negative shadow/highlight details etc and not whether you are going to spill water, chemistry, etc. because your set up is too small--it takes space and plenty of it. I have 18 feet of 36 inch deep sinks. I wish I had one more run of that to be honest but the room wouldn't allow it. 22 x 30 Hypo trays are what I develop in (Jobo too when its not throwing a fit). The Hypo trays are built thicker and have high walls to accommodate the momentum of the volume of liquid that is sloshing back and forth. You will lose the battle with the tray if you get traditional development trays as the water/chemistry has too much slippery strength to control, YMMV of course. If you get a print washer (outside of said Hypo tray with a syphon) it will be very big as well. Enough there I suppose.

I have been shooting 20 x 24 for close to a decade and when I bought there were less company's offering such large cameras. I bought an Ebony. Now of course you can get a Richard Ritter camera, Canham has an all metal version, Chamonix makes beautiful cameras, and you might still be able to find Lotus making large cameras, and Ebony still offers theirs.

I had two AWB holders made that have fared very well. He also made my Wet Plate holder which is starting to show the wear of the large amounts of silver which is corrosive.

My lens kit is 1000 mm Germonar, Schneider 550 xxl Fine Art, and a 355 G-Claron for 2x's life size portraits for the Negative captures,

and for my Wet Plate work a Dallmeyer 8D, Dallmeyer 30 inch RR.

May be way more information than you were looking for.

Here are some examples;

121255121256121257121258


The first two are Wet Plate Collodion, the last two Gumover Platinum/Palladiums

I'll post some landscapes in another reply

best of luck,

Monty

Awesome! Hats off to you!! Both inoformation and the print!!! I wish to be on your footsteps, ;-) Best of luck!

[ndg]

I shoot a much smaller format - 14x20. My darkroom is a tiny bathroom. However, developing my negatives with the Jobo system allows me to develop my negatives in there. I use the 3063 print drum and develop a sheet at a time. I bring this up because the 3063 drum takes up to 20x24 sheets. Developing a sheet at a time is slow but then it is ULF.

[SLVRGLTN]

Monty,

Which Amergraph did you purchase? I have a NuArc 26-1K that I use.

Brian

[Monty McCutchen]

Sorry guys about the inbox. I've cleaned it up if you still wish to contact via pm.

Brian I bough the Amergraph ULF 28

Hope that is helpful.

Monty

the NuArc is an excellent unit but look at unblinking eye website for Sandy Kings review of the Amergraph in comparison in regards to light fall off at the edges. It was very helpful to me.

[SLVRGLTN]

How do the users carry these beast around? Can anyone provide tripod info that will hold these and how are you carrying these with backpacks that will fit say the Ebony or Canham? I know of Ries tripods and their heads. Also since Ilford does a ULF run twice a year? I heard of S&S film holders but will they work on either camera maker listed above? I know of other film holder makers so I'm looking at multiple options. Any ideas will be helpful. Thanks

[Monty McCutchen]

Brian,

I use the biggest Reis tripod and and their biggest head. I had the head leathered to soften the weight of putting the camera down to minimize scratching. The nice thing about the Reis head is that it has a spring loaded screw so once you find the receptacle on the bottom of the camera it pops into place. This is a very nice feature needed when loading the camera up onto the tripod by yourself as I always do. Reis makes beautiful and excellent tripods and heads--that being said mine is often pushed to its limits as the Ebony came in around 55 pounds coupled with a 19 lb Dallmeyer 8D and heavy film holders/plate holders makes for a battle of wills at times. I'm guessing the Chamonix comes in lighter but you would have to check with Hugo or Tri Tran here on the Forum to find the direct answer to that. If the romance of a wooden tripod is not high on your list then you might check some of the professional video camera tripods. They have load capacities in the hundreds and would carry the load much easier. I wish at the very least I would have checked in on them ten years ago, but you live and learn.

If you buy a Chamonix I believe they make the holders too. Ebony at the time I had mine made did not and I had AWB make the holders FIRST and then sent them to Japan so that Hiromi at Ebony could make the back specifically to match exactly the holders I would be using. Ebony may be making holders now as I seem to remember reading on some formats he was doing just that. You might inquire. They are so incredibly nice to deal with.

Ilford makes its annual run ONCE a year, not twice.

As to carrying it around, well I don't think you will be. Its more like push it around. I use a heavy duty luggage cart that I've taken onto some trails that has done fairly well. Its not so much the weight as I've had heavy packs on my back in my past, but it is a bit unwieldy as it is a giant square on your back, of course when you throw in the film holders, lenses, loupes, darkcloth etc it really isn't a backpacking format--at least for me! I also use a Dodge Ram. 20 x 24 lends itself to Weston's (I believe it was Weston) comment that there isn't anything photogenic to shoot more than 100 yards from your car. I had a Strebor case specially made for my camera that was very well made, if not behind schedule. I'm not sure if he is still making photographic equipment at this point or not. Any of the major case makers will make you one on special order, of course their pricing will reflect just that.

As to the Darkcloth you might consider the weight of the material you will use. It is very large. If its too light it will blow everywhere. I had mine made white on the outside and of course black on the inside and it is quite heavy.

Monty

[StoneNYC]

The Chamonix 20x24 weighs weighs 42.5 pound/19.3 kg

I can't say how heavy the holders are.

[pierre506]

The weight of 4 or 5 ULF holders may not be lighter too much than the camera's.

[doublezero]

Hello ,
a double side 20x24 inch film holder made by AWB Is 5 kilos .

[Andrew O'Neill]

Very nice work, Monty!