Are posts to funding pages allowed here?

[StoneNYC]

I've noticed that a few people have posted threads that link to certain kinds of funding pages like "go fund me".

My question is, are those kinds of Pages allowed here? I find the whole concept pretty rude and really outside of the purpose of this kind of forum in general, to be asking other people to pray for you so that you can have your own large format camera or get some film bought for you for free seems really rude to me and I'm top of that seems really out of character for the site itself which doesn't allow advertisers and things like that, it's essentially another form of asking for money.

I wanted to flag somebody's recent post about something because it really bugging me, but I wasn't exactly sure if it was something that should be even flagged because I don't know if it's allowed or not so that's why I'm asking.

Thanks.

[Kirk Gittings]

There is a sub-forum for Kick-starter announcements. It has helped with a couple of very worth projects by sincere honest people looking for funding for photo related projects. Bill Schwab's project for the PhotoStck building and handheld 4x5 come to mind. What is your problem with them?

[StoneNYC]

There is a sub-forum for Kick-starter announcements. It has helped with a couple of very worth projects by sincere honest people looking for funding for photo related projects. Bill Schwab's project for the PhotoStck building and handheld 4x5 come to mind. What is your problem with them?

It's not that kind that bother me, I even contributed to Bill Schwab's project.

I meant like "I want to own and shoot a 16x20 camera but I can't afford one or the film so can you give me money to buy the bellows and film? I'm looking to make babies with my new wife so I can't spend money on my camera like I want to so I need $3,500 please"

That's what bothers me.

[Kirk Gittings]

Jeez where was that? I missed that one.

[Dan Fromm]

Kirk, in this post http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?116147-ULF-Camera-for-a-Bell-amp-Howell-914mm-f8-Aerial-Lens the OP asks for funds to buy tools so that he can make a camera for himself.

I find the whole deal odd -- project poorly thought through, no budget, beggar not obviously capable of doing the work, no benefit to anyone but the beggar, and so on -- but I'm neutral about his telling us what he's up to and begging a little. I won't contribute, he's given no reasons why he should be my favorite charity. If this is what set StoneNYC off I sympathize a little but no one here is obligated to help fund the guy's fantasy camera. As they say, asking is cheap.

On the whole its best to let sleeping moderators lie.

[StoneNYC]

What Dan referenced is in fact the post that set me off.

I've seen some clever ones like the guy who offered a nude calendar to those who funded a trip he was taking of him nude at all the places he was visiting.

At least that offers something. But to me, posting a link to something like "give me money cause I don't have enough and don't want to work for it" is a lot like posting advertising. And I thought advertisers weren't allowed here.

I don't know I feel kind of like that person who see's a kid misbehaving and the kid obviously needs a little sense knocked into him and I'm of the mind that "the village raises the child" and he should be told what he's doing wrong and hopefully that will help him behave better in the future.

I don't know, The post itself that he made asking for information was perfectly fine, but he used it as an avenue to also promote himself and his project and that's what bothers me.

[Sal Santamaura]

I've noticed that a few people have posted threads that link to certain kinds of funding pages like "go fund me".

My question is, are those kinds of Pages allowed here?...I wasn't exactly sure if it was something that should be even flagged because I don't know if it's allowed or not so that's why I'm asking...Asking that question in a thread is, in my opinion, the wrong way to go about it. Either the "Contact Us" link at the bottom of each page or the black triangle-with-an-exclamation-point will get you to the moderators. Keeping them asleep (unaware) just perpetuates your consternation and invites all kinds of piling on.


...I don't know I feel kind of like that person who see's a kid misbehaving and the kid obviously needs a little sense knocked into him and I'm of the mind that "the village raises the child" and he should be told what he's doing wrong and hopefully that will help him behave better in the future...This village doesn't own the forum. Tuan, and his delegated moderators, make the kind of decisions you're asking for. I say notify and leave it up to them.

[Michael Cienfuegos]

It's not that kind that bother me, I even contributed to Bill Schwab's project.

I meant like "I want to own and shoot a 16x20 camera but I can't afford one or the film so can you give me money to buy the bellows and film? I'm looking to make babies with my new wife so I can't spend money on my camera like I want to so I need $3,500 please"

That's what bothers me.

Just enjoy your new 8x10 camera. I don't have either a wife (widowed) or kid (out of the nest for 20 years) and I can barely afford to feed my hobby. You seem to be doing very well with your new toy. Get to know it and use it, and try not to piss off your new wife with all this stuff or you will be an ex.

;)

m

[StoneNYC]

Just enjoy your new 8x10 camera. I don't have either a wife (widowed) or kid (out of the nest for 20 years) and I can barely afford to feed my hobby. You seem to be doing very well with your new toy. Get to know it and use it, and try not to piss off your new wife with all this stuff or you will be an ex.

;)

m

Fair enough.

[StoneNYC]

Asking that question in a thread is, in my opinion, the wrong way to go about it. Either the "Contact Us" link at the bottom of each page or the black triangle-with-an-exclamation-point will get you to the moderators. Keeping them asleep (unaware) just perpetuates your consternation and invites all kinds of piling on.

This village doesn't own the forum. Tuan, and his delegated moderators, make the kind of decisions you're asking for. I say notify and leave it up to them.

I didn't specifically reference the thread as it wasn't the only one and I felt pointing directly to it wasn't appropriate but I'm wondering for the future if it's allowed or if it violates the rules?

[Sal Santamaura]

Asking that question in a thread is, in my opinion, the wrong way to go about it. Either the "Contact Us" link at the bottom of each page or the black triangle-with-an-exclamation-point will get you to the moderators. Keeping them asleep (unaware) just perpetuates your consternation and invites all kinds of piling on...


I didn't specifically reference the thread as it wasn't the only one and I felt pointing directly to it wasn't appropriate...I meant this thread. :)


...I'm wondering for the future if it's allowed or if it violates the rules?Then you've got to ask the moderators via channels I mentioned, not us. We neither make nor enforce the rules.

[Lou Baleur]

I agree. Mods have enough to do.

[Sal Santamaura]

I agree. Mods have enough to do.You agree with whom about what? Nobody said anything about moderator workload. In Dan's post


...On the whole its best to let sleeping moderators lie.

he used a phrase that one can reasonably infer means he thinks things would just get more complicated if the moderators were called in and, therefore, they should be left out of it. This is not directly related to moderator workload.

[Dan Fromm]

Thanks, Sal.

We've had a couple of discussions recently that were about the rules the moderators apply. Or don't apply. They were all started in August when nothing much happens and everyone gets a little silly. August, 2014 is over. I hope that discussions about what is/isn't/ought to be/ought not to be permitted here are over too.

[goamules]

It is a silly season for "what's allowed" questions Dan.

As long as the requests for money are kept in the Kickstarter section, I can ignore them nicely. I have something of a manufacturing and entrepreneurial background. I believe someone needs to find a way to produce something first, then if it's good enough, and his production costs low enough, sell that thing for a profit. Not try to get funding first, for something of no value to anyone but yourself. I just don't understand people that expect strangers to fund their exploratory hobbies. Heck, I'd like to race Ferraris. Should I go to a Vintage Racecars forum, and ask for money so I can buy one? I can make my vision/project "to race before I'm 60...to race in every state....to drive the coolest old Ferrari...." Sorry, but rich uncles are where you get fun money, or you work for it. Not ask strangers. There are so many "I want a BIG camera!" projects it's not funny. I want a Ferrari. Yet people throw money at these people because "they seem nice", or get suckered into clever salesmanship / art talk. If your work is good, make it first, then get the funding by selling it.....if it's good.

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?112506-Kickstart-Wet-Plate-Collodian-Project

[Dan Fromm]

Garrett, asking is cheap. If you want a Ferrari, ask for one. The worst that can happen is that people will make fun of you and you'll end up with as many Ferraris as you have now.

So you'll know, I'm not going to give you the Ferrari I don't have.

[BrianShaw]

... to be asking other people to pray for you so that ...

Amen, Stone. :o

[HMG]

Garrett, asking is cheap. If you want a Ferrari, ask for one. The worst that can happen is that people will make fun of you and you'll end up with as many Ferraris as you have now.

So you'll know, I'm not going to give you the Ferrari I don't have.

OK, so give me your BMW, or Ford, or whatever.

Seriously, have the money requests become so troublesome that it warrants action (not to mention this much discussion)? I'm what I would guess is an average participant in terms of reading posts and I haven't seen that many. Maybe I've missed them.

What I do see, I ignore (other than the "kickstarter" forum which I put in a different category). I would say if prevalent, then it would be necessary to do something. But at this point, I just don't see it as an issue.

[rdenney]

1. Complaints or issues about how the forum is run should be posted in the Feedback section, which is something we'll be less likely to miss. This one was posted in the Lounge, where I missed it until just now. I've just moved it.

2. The moderators are busy, but not overworked to the point where we don't have time to (politely) ignore a report that we don't think needs action. We'd rather do that than have to find threads like this by happenstance.

3. The Kickstarter forum does not require that announcements be worthy, just that they be of interest to large-format photographers. Given that people may disagree with what you or I feel is worthy, we'd prefer not to make that judgment. If you think a project is unworthy, don't back it.

4. If you think a Kickstarter announcement is fraudulent, then report it to the mods, but report it to Kickstarter first. Being fraudulent is not the same thing as being unworthy of my investment. It's not our job to protect people from their own gullibility. It is Kickstarter's job to investigate claims of fraud--we have no tools to do so. But we will look and discuss amongst ourselves and take whatever action we think is warranted.

Rick "not seeing a need for action here" Denney

[StoneNYC]

1. Complaints or issues about how the forum is run should be posted in the Feedback section, which is something we'll be less likely to miss. This one was posted in the Lounge, where I missed it until just now. I've just moved it.

2. The moderators are busy, but not overworked to the point where we don't have time to (politely) ignore a report that we don't think needs action. We'd rather do that than have to find threads like this by happenstance.

3. The Kickstarter forum does not require that announcements be worthy, just that they be of interest to large-format photographers. Given that people may disagree with what you or I feel is worthy, we'd prefer not to make that judgment. If you think a project is unworthy, don't back it.

4. If you think a Kickstarter announcement is fraudulent, then report it to the mods, but report it to Kickstarter first. Being fraudulent is not the same thing as being unworthy of my investment. It's not our job to protect people from their own gullibility. It is Kickstarter's job to investigate claims of fraud--we have no tools to do so. But we will look and discuss amongst ourselves and take whatever action we think is warranted.

Rick "not seeing a need for action here" Denney

Ok thanks, feel free to close the thread ;)