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kenj8246
9-Aug-2014, 08:55
Pretty basic question, I'll admit, but I've been unable to answer my questions looking here and googling and experimenting.

I know the answer is gonna contain 'it depends' but how does one decide how much swing to use? I understand the basic principle but am having difficulty/fun deciding how to decide. Also, when does one do the 'final focus' and say 'Ok, that's as good as it's gonna get'?

Thanks.

Kenny

Thom Bennett
9-Aug-2014, 09:46
I learned a visual method years ago from Steve Simmons, author of "Using the View Camera" and use it all the time.

Once you determine that you need to use swing (or tilt), choose the near and far points that you want in focus, and focus on the far point. While looking at the ground glass, slowly start the swing (or tilt) in the direction of the near point. Once both points are equally out of focus (believe it or not, you will see it) lock down the swing (or tilt) and refocus. If done correctly, both near and far points will snap into focus at the same time and, therefore, the entire plane will be in focus. Once you get used to doing it, it is very quick and intuitive.

Hope this helps.

Mark Sawyer
9-Aug-2014, 10:09
Thom's right, as was Steve Simmons. But you'll soon find out that when you set for a near point in the foreground and a far point in the background, there will always be a tree in the foreground that intrudes its out-of-focusness into the background area. That's why the Scheimpflug Principle hardly ever works in reality. Depth-of-field is so much simpler than depth-of-forest...

Thom Bennett
9-Aug-2014, 10:15
Mark makes a good point. Probably the most important aspect of swing and tilt is determining when it should be utilized and how it will affect the rest of the scene. As you photograph more, you'll learn to use the swings and tilts in combination with depth-of-field to achieve what you want for any particular scene.

Heroique
9-Aug-2014, 10:45
... out-of-focusness ... depth-of-forest ...

I've just added these to my card catalog of useful LF terms.

I like "out-of-focusness" because it seems to put some "blame" on the subject, not all of it on the photographer. ;^)

"Depth of forest" is a persistent problem in my region of soaring trees and long branches.

But as Kenny says, it really is fun to decide how to decide.

ic-racer
9-Aug-2014, 11:41
It is easier to see on an 8x10 camera vs 4x5. So, practice or learning on the larger format can be beneficial. That way when you move up to the smaller, more demanding formats, you will be able to get it in the ballpark by putting the camera in some configuration that it close then squint with a loupe to try and fine tune it.

kenj8246
9-Aug-2014, 12:24
I learned a visual method years ago from Steve Simmons, author of "Using the View Camera" and use it all the time.

Once you determine that you need to use swing (or tilt), choose the near and far points that you want in focus, and focus on the far point. While looking at the ground glass, slowly start the swing (or tilt) in the direction of the near point. Once both points are equally out of focus (believe it or not, you will see it) lock down the swing (or tilt) and refocus. If done correctly, both near and far points will snap into focus at the same time and, therefore, the entire plane will be in focus. Once you get used to doing it, it is very quick and intuitive.

Hope this helps.

Thanks, Thom. Intuitively, I knew this is how it should be done. In practice, it can get confusing. How are things in the Big Easy? I am originally from Lecompte La. Haven't been in NOLA since before Katrina and really need to get back down there.

Thom's right, as was Steve Simmons. But you'll soon find out that when you set for a near point in the foreground and a far point in the background, there will always be a tree in the foreground that intrudes its out-of-focusness into the background area. That's why the Scheimpflug Principle hardly ever works in reality. Depth-of-field is so much simpler than depth-of-forest...

Ain't it the dang truth?

I've just added these to my card catalog of useful LF terms.

I like "out-of-focusness" because it seems to put some "blame" on the subject, not all of it on the photographer. ;^)

"Depth of forest" is a persistent problem in my region of soaring trees and long branches.

But as Kenny says, it really is fun to decide how to decide.

Me, too. Really like "out-of-focusness".

It is easier to see on an 8x10 camera vs 4x5. So, practice or learning on the larger format can be beneficial. That way when you move up to the smaller, more demanding formats, you will be able to get it in the ballpark by putting the camera in some configuration that it close then squint with a loupe to try and fine tune it.

Doubt I'll try 8X10 anytime soon…having enough trouble affording the 4X5 habit. :)

mdarnton
9-Aug-2014, 13:04
I just switched to x-ray film. One sheet of 5x7 costs me what two frames of 35mm cost, I'm shooting many, many fewer frames than I was with 35mm, and I can develop what I shot immediately, instead of waiting for the end of the roll. The stuff likes dilute D23, which costs just about nothing at all, and the results look better than 35mm, of course. I like it so much that I haven't touched my 4x5 in a couple of weeks, and just bought an 8x10 on Ebay. That will mean I'm shooting the equivalent of four frames of 35mm per shot. It's looking harder and harder to justify the expense and inconvienience of shooting 35mm. :-)

evan clarke
9-Aug-2014, 16:30
What you see on the ground glass is what you get.

Mark Sawyer
9-Aug-2014, 17:27
What you see on the ground glass is what you get.

...which makes a good ground glass and focusing loupe indispensable!

RSalles
18-Dec-2014, 18:46
Evan,

If you do't mind I would like to make this sentence my "signature-of-the-month",

Renato

Larry Kellogg
19-Dec-2014, 17:07
Can you give me any tips on buying 5x7 X-ray film? ;-) I thought that stuff was thin and prone to damage.

towolf
19-Dec-2014, 17:16
The x-ray film I know is 0.2mm like most other film. You know how they clip those big x-rays onto the light box with one swift movement in the hospital? Wouldn’t work with thin film.

And the emulsion is much the same as other film, you just have to watch two sides.

kenj8246
20-Dec-2014, 17:52
Excuse me, but what does x-ray film necessarily have to do with swing movements and focusing?

Bill_1856
20-Dec-2014, 19:52
Don't forget: VERY LITTLE tilt or swing will almost always do the job. It's easy to use 'way too much!

kenj8246
21-Dec-2014, 06:59
Don't forget: VERY LITTLE tilt or swing will almost always do the job. It's easy to use 'way too much!

Thanks, Bill. I've discovered that very thing, much to my chagrin. :)

NoBob
21-Dec-2014, 07:46
Have a look at Fred Newman's useful video tutorials on movements on YouTube.