cheap generic flash kits

[el pescador]

I,m looking for a flash kit. I thought I,d start by having a quick look on e bay, Bowens or elinchrom, but there seem to be a lot of very cheap flash kits ;3 x 180 flash heads, stands,soft boxes, brollies and leads all for £200 delivered. This seems incredibly cheap, can they really be OK for this money?,, has anyone tried any of these kits? I,d be interested to know if anyone has used one of kits?

[koh303]

the strobes themselves are OK, the accessories are usually very low grade (stands/sync cables die fast, but for 3-8$ a piece who cares)
They are reliable and work pretty much as expected for the most part.
I have about 6-7 "china" generic strobes from 160-300WS and all are exactly what i paid for.

The problems i have run into is that color balance is off on some of the umbrellas which are not brand names.

In the studio i use bowens monolights, which were not that much more expensive on Ebay, and some deals do come along.
I just saw 3 Esprit 200/300 sell for 120$ each. Those are not that much different the the bowens knock off made in china, for the price, see if you can find a name brand (D-lite 4 kits shouldent be that expensive), or just go for the best looking el cheapo units.

[vdonovan]

I've had a similar experience: pretty good for the money. If you're just getting into studio lighting, it's a good way to start, though spending a little extra for Bowens (or Calumet/Bowens) is worth while. If you're fitting out a commercial studio for stuff that's going to be used hard every day, then you want real pro gear, not the knockoffs.

An exception are the various cheapie wireless flash triggers. I've gone through several of them and they always fail at just the wrong time. It's worth spending a little more for Pocket Wizards. The new X model is reasonably priced and has all the basic features.

[HMG]

Also consider availability of flash tubes, reflectors, softbox adapters. And whether parts/repairs are available.

[lenser]

Take a step back and decide what you need it to do. sometimes you want almost no depth of field and almost any junk kit will produce enough power. HOWEVER.....if you are shooting table top sets that require a great deal of depth of field, anything stop action that may need even a bit of depth of field, architectural interiors what need a huge depth of field, group portraits that also need a lot of depth of field, (and the list goes on), all you would be doing is wasting your money on every level. Power means depth of field! Period!!! Any unit can be powered way down, but if you don't have the power to begin with, you are mostly out of luck (except in perfectly still subjects where you can endlessly pop the flash while building up more and more light, but with those dinky units, that could take hours).

Take a look at the Paul C. Buff units, the Einsteins and and their other units. They are relatively inexpensive, extremely reliable, have a great deal of power and tons of accessories that are fine quality. I speak for them since I've used their gear since the late 70's with great success and reliability. In the three plus decades I've used them, I've only had four repairs and those were turned around to me a under a week.

However, Calumet, Photogenic and others have outstanding mono lights, just perhaps not as comprehensive a system. Others like Speedotron have great multi heads from a single power source which are the most powerful systems. One caveat there is that if your power source tanks, you are down for weeks waiting while it is repaired unless you invest in at least one more expensive power pack for backup. Monolights have the power source built in so if one fails, the rest of your system is still running and you are never out of business.

[Tin Can]

I second Paul C Buff. I just ordered my dream set last night. 3 more Einsteins so I have 4 and his Cyber Commander system that gives interactive wireless control for up to 16 of the lights. As my friend and neighbor also has Einsteins and Alien Bees we can share a huge setup within our building.

I like they are USA made, even the electronic control system, and affordable. Seems a lot of people agree as he seems sells a lot of these.

I need to grow into this system and I will shoot digital and film with them...

I have Norman and Novatron that need a new Chicago home.

[HMG]

The OP is (presumably) in the UK; as he/she used £ as currency denomination. I don't know if the Paul Buff units are sold outside the US.

However, I have 3 of the original Paul C Buff WL10000 monolights (the ones that look like paint cans) and they are still going strong. Flash tubes and - AFAIK - repairs are still available.

[Tin Can]

You are correct, this is from the website, here (http://www.paulcbuff.com/international.php).

I now remember, PCB has gotten a lot of flack for his policies, but I understand his explanation. It's his business.

Please read his entire statement as there are ways and a logic to his policies.


The OP is (presumably) in the UK; as he/she used £ as currency denomination. I don't know if the Paul Buff units are sold outside the US.

However, I have 3 of the original Paul C Buff WL10000 monolights (the ones that look like paint cans) and they are still going strong. Flash tubes and - AFAIK - repairs are still available.

[el pescador]

Yes I,m in the UK, so some of the makes suggested aren,t available over here. I,ve owned Bowens set ups before so i,ll probably go for them or elinchrom, but I was just curious as to whether at those prices the Chinese copies could be any good. If the heads are OK, it might be worth buying a set to use in conjunction with some better quality units

[ImSoNegative]

I use b800 and a b1600 from buff and they are great lights

[koh303]

You are correct, this is from the website, here (http://www.paulcbuff.com/international.php).

I now remember, PCB has gotten a lot of flack for his policies, but I understand his explanation. It's his business.

Please read his entire statement as there are ways and a logic to his policies.

This is not directly related to the thread, but after reading the entire statement, there is only one thing there that makes sense, which is not having service centers outside of the US, making service less accessible.

All the other stuff about shipping costs, duties and credit fraud are total BS. The US has the highest rate of credit fraught in the world (50% of all fraud is in the US, but only 25% of all credit card transactions are in the US), shipping cost going out of the US are some of the cheapest in the world comparatively, and the fact the US has one of the lowest tax, import duties and collection rates in the world, but more importantly, sellers are not obligated to include sales tax in the list price of items, does not mean there are no taxes, and so the fact taxes per transaction ARE infact collected elsewhere is and should not be their concern...

I guess they just never graduated to the internet age... But good to know they are still in business.

[mdarnton]

Can only tell about what I've tried. I had a nice 800WS Dynalite kit, three heads on one power supply, at one point, and it was fine, but now I've been using a much cheaper Interfit 300WS 3-monolight set for the last 10 years or so, and it's just as fine, maybe even better. The only one that has had a problem is the one that died when I tipped over the stand one day and it crashed to the floor. It was declared dead, not fixable, but the repair service sold me a refurbished newer model for dirt cheap to replace it.

The most important thing, in my opinion, is to get heads with a standard reflector fitting, so you aren't tied to some off brand accessories. My particular Interfit uses Bowens attachments, but others in the family don't.

As lenser says, you can always power down, but you can't power up if it isn't there. I bought more light than I really needed for my specific situation, which is unchanging and tight, but it was a good thing to do.

[DrTang]

yup..one 750 and two 250's will about cover it for a start

thing I love about them is they are continuously variable.. and are built like a tank



^^ Calumet / Bowens mono lights

[polyglot]

If you're talking about the Chinese eBay flashes and all their rebranded copies, don't go there. I lost about $800 because I bought a couple and they blew up when plugged in. They refused to refund and eBay sided with the vendor.

Much better value IMHO in used high quality flashes, I now have a couple of Bowens monolights.

[Jody_S]

If you're talking about the Chinese eBay flashes and all their rebranded copies, don't go there. I lost about $800 because I bought a couple and they blew up when plugged in. They refused to refund and eBay sided with the vendor.

Much better value IMHO in used high quality flashes, I now have a couple of Bowens monolights.

I've been buying locally as well, older sets for $100 or less. Currently running an 800W/S Ascorlight set and a pair of Bowens monolights. Both working great, the Ascor has more power than I can use.

I looked at the Chinese stuff before buying them, and there was every expectation that a 30 year-old Ascorlight set would still last longer than the brand new cheap junk I could buy off fleabay.

[John Koehrer]

This is not directly related to the thread, but after reading the entire statement, there is only one thing there that makes sense, which is not having service centers outside of the US, making service less accessible.

All the other stuff about shipping costs, duties and credit fraud are total BS. The US has the highest rate of credit fraught in the world (50% of all fraud is in the US, but only 25% of all credit card transactions are in the US), shipping cost going out of the US are some of the cheapest in the world comparatively, and the fact the US has one of the lowest tax, import duties and collection rates in the world, but more importantly, sellers are not obligated to include sales tax in the list price of items, does not mean there are no taxes, and so the fact taxes per transaction ARE infact collected elsewhere is and should not be their concern...

I guess they just never graduated to the internet age... But good to know they are still in business.

Yeah, Taxes are'nt a concern unless the recipient balks when his stuff hits local custom. If shipping is inexpensive from the US that doesn't make it inexpensive, does it?

Since Buff sell only factory direct his experience with CC fraud may be different than the norm. The greatest majority of customers will use CC and Buff doesn't have to worry about bad checks or screwing around with purchase order and collections.

It's HIS business.

[HMG]

This is not directly related to the thread, but after reading the entire statement, there is only one thing there that makes sense, which is not having service centers outside of the US, making service less accessible.

All the other stuff about shipping costs, duties and credit fraud are total BS. The US has the highest rate of credit fraught in the world (50% of all fraud is in the US, but only 25% of all credit card transactions are in the US), shipping cost going out of the US are some of the cheapest in the world comparatively, and the fact the US has one of the lowest tax, import duties and collection rates in the world, but more importantly, sellers are not obligated to include sales tax in the list price of items, does not mean there are no taxes, and so the fact taxes per transaction ARE infact collected elsewhere is and should not be their concern...

I guess they just never graduated to the internet age... But good to know they are still in business.

I would disagree. First, CC fraud is so much higher here than in Europe because, in part, we rely on ancient mag stripe technology rather than imbedded chip. But the chip is a moot point when doing phone or online sales. As difficult as it is to prosecute domestic fraud, it's much harder internationally. Buff also says that to comply with the various European taxes and regulations, he would have to have a European dealer or distributor. Assuming this is correct (I can't personally say one way or the other), I see his point about margins and markups.

As far a graduating to the internet age, Buff had a online presence with actual, usable content (detailed specs, manuals, parts and support, ordering) going back many years. Probably years before his competitors had similar content.

[MikeH]

I have clients here in California that have tried selling "overseas" and have found it very trying. Statistics are one thing, but the fraud that was charged back to the merchant's credit card account, for transactions outside the U.S., Canada & Mexico, was very high. It's possible that the banks eat more of the domestic fraud. Dealing with the VAT in Asia is an entirely different ballgame. For one client, I was flat out told (maybe there's a cultural translation problem here, but others have had the same experience) to make something up to avoid the VAT. Some countries are like California: they are looking for any excuse to bring a business into the country's "tax arms..." :-)

I've seen the business side of this, and I fully understand Buff's position. Small businesses are at a big disadvantage in the international business arena.

The only exception I've seen to this is a Chinese California CPA... been here for years... who has a number of Japanese and Chinese friends and clients, some are US citizens, some live in their home country. He knows how to work his contacts with great results. He also understands both the U.S. and Asian business cultures.