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ivancak
24-May-2014, 13:24
Introducing printable compact modular large format camera project.

115841

Check project website for more details at: www.peterivancak.com

Peter Ivancak

Bob Mann
24-May-2014, 14:16
Print your own camera with your 3D printer? Or, buy a camera from the "project" that they make with a 3D printer?? Still, it is an interesting idea and the test photos on the website look good.

Richard Johnson
24-May-2014, 15:37
What caliber?

Randy Moe
24-May-2014, 20:59
https://wanderlustcameras.com/



Introducing printable compact modular large format camera project.

115841

Check project website for more details at: www.peterivancak.com

Peter Ivancak

Drew Bedo
25-May-2014, 09:08
They seem to have done the fundamental work, but I couldn't figure out how they intend to sell the camera . . .as a printable file, as a complete camera like the wanderlust folks . . .or just what.

The fact that they are in Slovakia is a flag for me.

Randy Moe
25-May-2014, 09:53
I can't see it as coming in any cheaper than a Wanderlust.

If we bought a file and printed locally, I am sure that would be more than the $100 we KSer's paid and likely exceed the current price of $150.

It's a great idea, coming into an already saturated market.

But who knows, when Wanderlust is sold out and discontinued, they may have created a demand for this type of camera.

The advantage of the Wanderlust is it designed for cheaper and more numerous lenses.


They seem to have done the fundamental work, but I couldn't figure out how they intend to sell the camera . . .as a printable file, as a complete camera like the wanderlust folks . . .or just what.

The fact that they are in Slovakia is a flag for me.

Drew Bedo
25-May-2014, 10:59
Randy: I agree with everything you've said.

mdarnton
25-May-2014, 11:00
Unless I'm missing something here, the point of this camera seems to be that it's thin enough that you will be able to put just about any lens you want on it with the appropriate lens board/cone, no limitations at all. What's probably missing is a cheap focus helicoid, though you can buy one of those for $100 on Ebay, and be set for anything. My objective someday is to have a 47mm XL SA on a body like this one.

Me, I'm going to hold on an opinion on what it will cost to print it until someone actually KNOWS how much it costs to print it. :-)

toyotadesigner
29-May-2014, 14:08
I prefer 'heavy metal':

http://www.bhcamera.us/gaoersi45.php

Dandy97
29-May-2014, 14:16
Based on what I see on their site and doing some quick calculations of part sizes, that would about $700 to $1000 worth of parts on our rapid prototype machines. Where you are in that range depending on how good you wanted them to look and how robust you wanted them to be.

Dan

hoffner
29-May-2014, 16:02
The fact that they are in Slovakia is a flag for me.

The contact on their website is in Czech republic.

Drew Bedo
3-Jun-2014, 07:09
The contact on their website is in Czech republic.

Ok . . So what? "A rose by any other name . . "

My pint is that the Wanderlust folks are over here and subject to the legal system over here. They know that they face the potential for legal action from a lot of people if they act in bad faith.

Several years ago I had a problem with a predatory group, "Construct Data Publishing", purporting to be based in Brateslavia. I found that I had no legal recourse outside of getting a Czech lawyer involved. This problem was reported on this board and elsewhere.

The people offering this new 3-D printed camera are probably on the level. The camera looks good, and I have an interest in it, but: Startt-up company from Eastern Europe = Red Flag for me.

What is your point?

Bob Salomon
3-Jun-2014, 08:01
"Several years ago I had a problem with a predatory group, "Construct Data Publishing", purporting to be based in Brateslavia. I found that I had no legal recourse outside of getting a Czech lawyer involved. This problem was reported on this board and elsewhere."
I believe these are the friendly folks who keep mailing us contracts for a book on Trade Show Exhibitors. If so there are lots of case files in the US that have ruled their contracts null and void. But it still involves a court visit if one did not fully read the fine print on their contract. Their home office seems to move from country to country depending on who has sued them.

Bob Salomon
3-Jun-2014, 08:07
Designed for a lens that is no longer made and a film holder from a bankrupt company that is out of production? Since Schneider no longer makes the lens there can't be a lot of helicals for this lens out there. Who is going to make all the helicoids? And at what level of precision?

Drew Bedo
3-Jun-2014, 08:14
than you Bob. I am legally blind and the paperwork I filled out seemed to be a form confirming the my commercial information for a trade show I had a booth at.

I am sure that the contract language was not on the form that I filled out . . .and signed. The so-called fine print was pasted back into the contract they sent along with a demand for payment. Its over now, but once burned, twice shy.

I would like to see the 3-D printed camera project come to fruition. Whatever its current shortcomings, they can be fixed in the 3-d prototyping process.

In any case, I will wait.

Bob Salomon
3-Jun-2014, 08:34
"leaglly blind"
Would help explain it. The fine print is on the back side of the contract. They tint the paper and print the terms in small, tinted type. Almost looks like it isn't there.

I have so many lawyers in my family that I find it interesting to always read these things when we get them. Lots of them come in for two year phone book listings at one thousand nine hundred and ninety nine dollars a year for a two year term payable in advance, in full.

I find it interesting that they always spell this out rather then put the price in numerical form. I guess that is because the amount and terms blend into all the other contractual terms and you are more likely to miss seeing it before you sign then $1,999.00 would be.

But this should make you feel better:

http://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/cases-proceedings/132-3001/fair-guide-construct-data-publishers-dba-fair-guide

hoffner
3-Jun-2014, 08:52
Several years ago I had a problem with a predatory group, "Construct Data Publishing", purporting to be based in Brateslavia. I found that I had no legal recourse outside of getting a Czech lawyer involved. This problem was reported on this board and elsewhere.



Why would you need a Czech lawyer involved for a group based in Bratislava? They are two different countries. What's your point?

toyotadesigner
3-Jun-2014, 09:02
For many people it is difficult to separate Czech Republic and Slovakia - not too long ago they used to be one single, undivided country ;-)

Even I have that problem - I never know which one is which, and I am a lot closer to both countries than you...

hoffner
3-Jun-2014, 09:07
For many people it is difficult to separate Czech Republic and Slovakia - not too long ago they used to be one single, undivided country ;-)

Even I have that problem - I never know which one is which, and I am a lot closer to both countries than you...

Not too long ago? 21 years ago. How long does it take for a Spaniard to see those two different countries as different ones?

toyotadesigner
3-Jun-2014, 09:31
What is 21 years? BTW, I am German...

Guess what: I've never been in the 'new' German states (former East Germany) in my life - not even after the reunification. It was located behind the 'iron curtain', like Czechoslovakia. Far away. Very far away, almost out of reach. Texas was a lot closer for me. And so was Hong Kong, Singapore, Spain, etc., where I spent most of my life.

Would you be able - without the help from google - to point Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania? New countries as well, located in the former Soviet Union, also behind the 'iron curtain'.

I guess you would be able to name the countries that evolved from former Yugoslavia in less than a second...

Peter Mounier
3-Jun-2014, 09:47
Not too long ago? 21 years ago.

For a 21 year old, it's a lifetime. For a 61 year old like me, it seems like yesterday.

hoffner
3-Jun-2014, 09:48
In other words - for a German like you, it takes more than 21 years to realize that a neighbouring country made of two nationalities have separated to two different countries? And it takes decades for a German like you to visit the Eastern part of Germany. Fair enough to know.

Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania are countries that I knew about long before they became again independent. As a kid I learned geography. Did you have lessons of geography in German schools?

hoffner
3-Jun-2014, 09:51
Ok . . So what? "A rose by any other name . . "


Several years ago I had a problem with a predatory group, "Construct Data Publishing", purporting to be based in Brateslavia. I found that I had no legal recourse outside of getting a Czech lawyer involved. This problem was reported on this board and elsewhere.



What has that group to do with this project of printable camera? What's your point?

hoffner
3-Jun-2014, 09:59
For many people it is difficult to separate Czech Republic and Slovakia - not too long ago they used to be one single, undivided country ;-)

Even I have that problem - I never know which one is which, and I am a lot closer to both countries than you...

I think our Czech members of this forum must be amused with your German geographical knowledge.

Drew Bedo
3-Jun-2014, 10:11
I merely express my caution at getting involved with this start-up in a country so far away. When these cameras become available, or when they license the 3-D printing file I will reconsider spending money with them . . .where ever they actually are operating from. That's pretty much it.

hoffner
3-Jun-2014, 10:25
I merely express my caution at getting involved with this start-up in a country so far away.


You did not express your caution because the project's country origin is far away from you but because - you had once been burnt by a completely different group in a different country. When asked about what the connection between these elements are you answered; " So what? "A rose by any other name . . "

hoffner
3-Jun-2014, 10:54
Several years ago I had a problem with a predatory group, "Construct Data Publishing", purporting to be based in Brateslavia. I found that I had no legal recourse outside of getting a Czech lawyer involved. This problem was reported on this board and elsewhere.



BTW, that group originated in Austria (another far away country for some of us) from where they later moved to Slovakia, after having legal issues in Austria.
But the question remains - what this group and your experience with it, have to do with Peter Ivancak Photography website and its present announcement on this forum??

hoffner
3-Jun-2014, 14:40
The fact that they are in Slovakia is a flag for me.



Several years ago I had a problem with a predatory group, "Construct Data Publishing", purporting to be based in Brateslavia. I found that I had no legal recourse outside of getting a Czech lawyer involved. This problem was reported on this board and elsewhere.

The people offering this new 3-D printed camera are probably on the level. The camera looks good, and I have an interest in it, but: Startt-up company from Eastern Europe = Red Flag for me.

What is your point?
Let me make it clear to you, Drew. The website Peter Ivancak presented in his thread is not in Slovakia.
He and his project obviously has nothing to do with your experience from Bratislava (Slovakia).
What is more, Czech republic, where Peter Ivancak has its address is situated in Central Europe, together with other countries such as Germany, Austria, Poland, and others (some concepts of the Central Europe include Switzerland too). The political Eastern Block ended in that country 25 years ago.

Please, before you start to raise your red flags make sure you apply the minimum of honesty due to the OP.

Drew Bedo
4-Jun-2014, 08:22
My sincere apologies to all: This thread started out as aa discussion of discussion of a proposed new camera from a start up company in eastern Europe. I had no intention of stiring up this type of discord. Lets bring the thread back to photography.

Cheers to all.

Drew Bedo

EdSawyer
5-Jun-2014, 09:20
Unless I'm missing something here, the point of this camera seems to be that it's thin enough that you will be able to put just about any lens you want on it with the appropriate lens board/cone, no limitations at all. What's probably missing is a cheap focus helicoid, though you can buy one of those for $100 on Ebay, and be set for anything. My objective someday is to have a 47mm XL SA on a body like this one.

Me, I'm going to hold on an opinion on what it will cost to print it until someone actually KNOWS how much it costs to print it. :-)


If you want a nice camera with a 47XL SA, look for a Cambo wide. Much better than either this or the wanderlust. yes, more money, but it's worth it.

ROL
5-Jun-2014, 18:52
I think our Czech members of this forum must be amused with your German geographical knowledge.

I'm half Czech (Bohemian) by birth. I can confirm it would be news to that side of my family that (the old) Czechoslovakia was undivided! The Czechs were not Slovaks and now certainly are not. :D

stawastawa
7-Jun-2014, 00:59
what does 3d printing this provide over machining the aparatus, seems like a box with a lens board to me =)

Dan Fromm
7-Jun-2014, 07:05
what does 3d printing this provide over machining the aparatus, seems like a box with a lens board to me =)

Fair question best answered by the original poster. And yes, it is a box with a lens board and a back.

3d printing requires less investment than, e.g., injection molding and less machining/assembly than starting from, say, ABS sheet. In any case, the OP is the one making the investment and doing the work. If he succeeds commercially, fine, wonderful, if not it was an interesting exercise from which the rest of us might learn something useful.

jnanian
8-Jun-2014, 18:24
I can't see it as coming in any cheaper than a Wanderlust.

If we bought a file and printed locally, I am sure that would be more than the $100 we KSer's paid and likely exceed the current price of $150.


my public library lets the general public use their 3d printers. it costs like pennies / gram ( just materials cost )
to give an example of price ... a smartphone case printed ... cost 30

if you buy and use your own materials its FREE ...

Drew Bedo
15-Jun-2014, 08:32
I think another advantage of 3-d printing is that changes to the design may be made with a faster turnaround time over injection molding or machining. For example, a lens cone for a odd focal length could be made for a customer as a one-off.