View Full Version : Alt-Process Prints from Digital Negatives or Positives
Digital negatives have become an important part in the workflow of a lot of alternative process printers.
One can print images using both analog as well as digital images.
I think it has done a lot to resurrect the interest in the alternative processes.
So, what about a thread dedicated to alt-process prints using digital negatives or positives from non-large format images?
Platinum, Palladium, Cyanotypes, Kallitypes, Carbon, Gum, Photogravures etc. They are all welcome.
Post them!
I'll kick things off with one of my own:
"Seated" - a gum-bichromate print
http://nanadadzie.com/darkroom/pix/Naila-01.jpg
Original image shot with Nikon d700 and Nikon 85mm f1.4 lens.
Dig neg created on Pictorico, Epson 4900
Printed on Saunders-Waterford paper.
Jim collum
2-Mar-2014, 16:40
Image shot with Leica M9, 21mm preaspsh
digital neg on Inkpress, HPz3200 and built in digital neg profile
Ziatype, on Goyu Kozo paper
30 drops Lithium Chloropalladite, 6 drops /Cesium Chloropalladite
http://www.getdpi.com/gallery/files/1/2/1922005_10153815736815361_379683068_n.jpg
A small (6" X 9") carbon print on baryta from a digital negative printed with an Epson R3000 with QTR using a profile I designed. Image capture was DSLR.
Sandy
djdister
4-Mar-2014, 06:56
A small (6" X 9") carbon print on baryta from a digital negative printed with an Epson R3000 with QTR using a profile I designed. Image capture was DSLR.
Sandy
Amazing shafts of light and great tone!
"In the Ice" - a copper plate photogravure print
http://nanadadzie.com/darkroom/pix/InTheIce.jpg
DSLR capture
Digital positive on pictorico
Plate inked with Charbonnel Universal Black
Printed on Echizen Shikibu Gampi natural
Chine colle'd to Somerset White Satin
9" x 12"
"The Paddock" - a Copper Plate Photogravure
http://nanadadzie.com/darkroom/pix/Paddock.jpgprint
2nd plate from the weekend, 9" x 12"
Digital capture, positive printed on Pictorico
Noticeable plate tone.
Used a piece of scrap copper and had hard time polishing the plate.
Inked with Charbonnel Universal Black
Printed on Echizen Shikibu Gampi natural
Chine colle'd to Somerset White Satin.
Jim Noel
9-Mar-2014, 13:24
I believe this image, and this thread belong somewhere other than the Large Format Forum. A digitally captured image is not large format.
I believe this image, and this thread belong somewhere other than the Large Format Forum. A digitally captured image is not large format.
That is why it is in the "Lounge", where non-large format stuff are relegated.
Andrew O'Neill
10-Mar-2014, 08:38
It's allowed in the Lounge.
Jim collum
10-Mar-2014, 14:38
... and this would be allowed outside of the Lounge as well.
a large format digital image
Ebony sv45te, Betterlight scanning back
Pt/Pd (1drop:3 drop ratio) Ziatype over color pigments on Kozo paper
digital negative Epson 7600 on OHP
http://www.jcollum.com/fm/web_platinum-033.jpg
Wow! What an arresting image! It just forces you to look at again and again….
... and this would be allowed outside of the Lounge as well.
a large format digital image
Ebony sv45te, Betterlight scanning back
Pt/Pd (1drop:3 drop ratio) Ziatype over color pigments on Kozo paper
digital negative Epson 7600 on OHP
http://www.jcollum.com/fm/web_platinum-033.jpg
"The Shack" - a gold-toned Vandyke print
http://nanadadzie.com/darkroom/pix/TheShack.jpg
Captured with Mamiya 7 on Delta 100
Scanned and digital negative printed on Pictorico
Printed on Arches Platine paper
"Kneeling" - a Copper Plate Photogravure Print
http://nanadadzie.com/darkroom/pix/Kneeling.jpg
A 9" x 12" plate
Digital capture, positive printed on Pictorico
B&S carbon tissue, stochastic aquatint screen, Ferric Chloride etch
Inked with Gamblin sepia etching ink
Printed on Echizen Shikibu Gampi natural
Chine colle'd to Somerset White Satin.
"The Boy and the Horse" - a Photopolymer Intaglio print
http://nanadadzie.com/darkroom/pix/Boy-Horse.jpg
Digital positive on Pictorico
KM Photopolymer plate 11.5" x 16.5", stochastic aquatint screen
Inked with Charbonnel Universal Black ink
Printed on Echizen Shikibu Gampi natural
Chine colle'd to Somerset White Satin.
"Black and White" - a Photopolymer Intaglio Print
http://nanadadzie.com/darkroom/pix/BlackAndWhite.jpg
Digital Positive on Pictorico
KM Photopolymer plate 8.5" x 11.5", stochastic aquatint screen
Inked with Charbonnel Universal Black ink
Printed on Echizen Shikibu Gampi natural
Chine colle'd to Somerset White Satin.
Erik Larsen
3-Oct-2014, 19:04
That is really nice ndg. The horses look like they are walking on water to me! My compliments
That is really nice ndg. The horses look like they are walking on water to me! My compliments
Thanks Erik!
Andrew O'Neill
3-Oct-2014, 20:19
Very nice, ndg!
Very nice, ndg!
Thanks Andrew!
bob carnie
4-Oct-2014, 06:28
Real nice Jim
Are you making cmy neg ??
... and this would be allowed outside of the Lounge as well.
a large format digital image
Ebony sv45te, Betterlight scanning back
Pt/Pd (1drop:3 drop ratio) Ziatype over color pigments on Kozo paper
digital negative Epson 7600 on OHP
http://www.jcollum.com/fm/web_platinum-033.jpg
With the excellent Large Format shooters across the world who now use various camera sizes and make digital negatives, why not?
Using and scanning from larger negatives is fine but many of the old line photographers are getting along in years and lighter equipment makes sense.
Add in we are seeing more freedom in what and how people photograph using smaller sized cameras and we are seeing new and even more exciting images from many.
"The Nurturers" - a Platinum-Palladium Print
I made this print a few years ago for Breast Cancer Awareness month but never turned it in.
Is it not ironic that that which The Nurturer uses to nourish and raise life can turn around and take life?
http://nanadadzie.com/darkroom/pix/Nurturers.jpg
Print on Arches Platine paper from a digital negative
Ricardo de Oliveira
27-Oct-2014, 17:10
Cyanotype from a digital negative:
124160
Burned forest (by some distracted camper) at Torres Del Paine National Park, Chilean Patagonia.
Ricardo de Oliveira
27-Oct-2014, 17:27
And this one, a try at kallitypes:
124161
Digi neg from a point and shoot camera at Lisbon, Portugal.
Sodium Acetate developer over Canson Montval.
And this one, a try at kallitypes:
124161
Digi neg from a point and shoot camera at Lisbon, Portugal.
Sodium Acetate developer over Canson Montval.
Missed this! Nice!
Cyanotype from a digital negative:
124160
Burned forest (by some distracted camper) at Torres Del Paine National Park, Chilean Patagonia.
Now that I've started to take some steps in cyanotype territory myself, I start to appreciate this image even more; excellent tones and contrast! The composition suits the process very well too.
Here's a cyanotype from a digital negative from my end. The original was shot with a Mamiya 50mm/1.7 on Fomapan 100. Printed on double coated Schut drawing paper (DIN A5 size, the image itself is a little over 10x15cm). I spent quite some time calibrating to control the high contrast and exponential exposure curve of this process. This is the first print I'm sort of happy with. The 'sort of' stems from some issues with negative flatness, so the next step will be to devise a more reliable printing frame.
http://www.koraks.nl/galleries/prints/CT_FMP_ZMFP100_141_1.jpg
Emil Schildt
15-Nov-2014, 09:57
Sorry I don' t do digital negatives (or only rarely), but I do make alt processes using small format negatives...
This is a dear little dear...
Bromoil Print
Two more cyanotypes:
http://www.koraks.nl/galleries/prints/CT_MS_R500FP4_141_1.jpg
Metz, France, October 2014. FP4+ with a Ricoh 500G rangefinder.
http://www.koraks.nl/galleries/prints/CT_ESP_SFP100_141_1.jpg
Girlfriend reading the paper. Schneider 210/5.6 on Fomapan 100. Toned with black tea.
Ricardo de Oliveira
16-Nov-2014, 13:55
Great images!
I love to mess with cyanotypes.I had tested a lot of papers and finally set at Canson Montval ( pretty inexpensive) pre acidified in a bath of Sulfamic Acid to neutralize the calcium carbonate. It goes very well for me with the New Cyanotype formula and setting the gamma to 2,2 ( Dr. Mike Ware method) to get an overall "curve" to correct the tones. Works better to me then Chart Throb. The other thing is that I got an Epson 1430W printer that, against all odds, blocks UV big time with Claria Inks giving me white paper whites, or almost:
125139
This is a somewhat crappy repro. The real thing is much bluer and better looking...
Thanks Ricardo! I have no experience with ChartThrob, but it looks interesting. However, I had a lot of fun creating a curve by hand (and by eye) for cyanotypes and for my purposes, it works quite well. I use an Epson 3880 and I find that the photo black and yellow inks block UV great - so much in fact that I have to print with a lower color density (-18%) on the transparencies I use. I outlined the process I use on this page (http://koraks.nl/index.php?menuparent=&page=11).
Gorgeous tonality on that cabbage print btw!
Some more from Metz, France; these were made with a Canon 7D, so they're very much from a digital origin.
http://koraks.nl/galleries/prints/MJct_141_2.jpg
http://koraks.nl/galleries/prints/MJct_141_3.jpg
http://koraks.nl/galleries/prints/MJct_141_4.jpg
Ricardo de Oliveira
18-Nov-2014, 12:00
Kallitype from a digital negative over Canson Montval pre-acidified. Sodium Acetate developer, gold toned. The size of the original is aprox. 14 x 9,5 in.
125254
Knotted up" - a Photopolymer Intaglio print
http://nanadadzie.com/darkroom/pix/Knots.jpg
Printed on Gampi #20 washi and Chine colle'd to Somerset White Satin paper.
Charbonnel Universal Black ink
Size - 8.5" x 11.5"
Ricardo de Oliveira
18-Nov-2014, 16:21
Knotted up" - a Photopolymer Intaglio print
http://nanadadzie.com/darkroom/pix/Knots.jpg
Printed on Gampi #20 washi and Chine colle'd to Somerset White Satin paper.
Charbonnel Universal Black ink
Size - 8.5" x 11.5"
Beautiful!
I take a look in your website. Really impressive. I'm amazed with your body of work. Congrats!
Thanks Ricardo. I am just trying to get better at the alternative processes.
"Far Away" - a platinum-palladium print
http://nanadadzie.com/darkroom/pix/FarAway.jpg
Image originally captured on 4x10 Xray film
The 4x10 negative was then scanned and and an 8" x 20" digital negative was printed on Pictorico with Epson 4900 for this image.
On Arches Platine paper
I am loving this 1:2.5 aspect ratio!
hendrik faure
1-Dec-2014, 14:46
http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u568/hfa8/hamburg_zps11b13d13.jpg
Hamburg Speicherstadt
6x9cm Zeiss Ikon Rangefinder, neg scanned 28x35Pictorio OHP positive, copperplate photogravure, asphalt aquatinta,
somerset antique paper, gamblin bone black ink (Print scanned in 2 parts, sorry)
http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u568/hfa8/hamburg_zps11b13d13.jpg
Hamburg Speicherstadt
6x9cm Zeiss Ikon Rangefinder, neg scanned 28x35Pictorio OHP positive, copperplate photogravure, asphalt aquatinta,
somerset antique paper, gamblin bone black ink (Print scanned in 2 parts, sorry)
Very nice Hendrik. I have missed your work. This is different from your previous theme but beautiful all the same.
djdister
1-Dec-2014, 15:08
Hamburg Speicherstadt
6x9cm Zeiss Ikon Rangefinder, neg scanned 28x35Pictorio OHP positive, copperplate photogravure, asphalt aquatinta,
somerset antique paper, gamblin bone black ink (Print scanned in 2 parts, sorry)
I love it! Great work.
photo on plywood, Foma Fomaspeed Liquid Emulsion
http://s019.radikal.ru/i627/1412/35/77412fe58f99.jpg (http://www.radikal.ru)
lit developer
http://i038.radikal.ru/1412/b6/ceb266727d3c.jpg (http://www.radikal.ru)
hendrik faure
2-Dec-2014, 10:00
Very nice Hendrik. I have missed your work. This is different from your previous theme but beautiful all the same.
Thank you Dan and ndg.
ndg, it seems you got the point of copperplate gravure, and I am looking foreward to see more prints from you.
Thank you Dan and ndg.
ndg, it seems you got the point of copperplate gravure, and I am looking foreward to see more prints from you.
Hendrik, i had to stop using ferric chloride in my little studio. There is just not enough space. Besides, the sink near where I can work is made of aluminum. I hope to get another space where I can do gravure without etching everything in sight. I hope to be able to use rosin and asphaltum. Till then, i have to make do with photopolymer plates.
"The Creek" - an 8" x 20" Carbon Transfer print
http://nanadadzie.com/darkroom/pix/TheCreek.jpg
Original image captured on 4x10 Kodak Green Xray film, Fuji 210 f5.6 lens @ f32
Developed with Rodinal in Jobo
Negative scanned on Epson 700 and digital negative printed on Pictorico for print.
Carbon tissue made with India ink.
Print on fixed-out photo paper.
"Mountains and Clouds" - an 8" x 20" carbon transfer print
http://nanadadzie.com/darkroom/pix/Mountains-Clouds.jpg
Captured on 4x10 FP4 with Fuji 210 mm f5.6 lens at f32 and linear polarizer
Developed in HC-110B
Negative scanned and digital negative for print created on Pictorico
I made this tissue with Sumi ink. I am trying to decide with I prefer - India or Suni ink.
On fixed out photo paper.
Emil Schildt
14-Dec-2014, 09:53
"Robochick", my brother calls this...
Painted with light - Photopolymer Gravure..
djdister
14-Dec-2014, 15:20
"Robochick", my brother calls this...
Painted with light - Photopolymer Gravure..
Very cool shot!
I mentioned elsewhere on the forum that I have fallen into the hole of carbon printing as well. About two weeks after starting with this endeavor, I am capable of producing prints that are sort of passable. I use digital negatives because this approach gives me more freedom in terms of image size, as well as more consistency in my approach. For your entertainment, inspiration or critique, I'll share my process parameters:
Digital negatives:
Epson 3880 with Jon Cone's ConeColor Pro inkset (not ideal for digital negatives, but I like to use one printer for all my printing purposes)
Color density +50
Advanced B&W mode; yellow +75, photo black
Esselte 57161 A4-sized inkjet transparencies
Front feed to prevent pizza wheels (works like a treat too!)
I use a 3mm printed safe edge.
Glop recipe (amounts indicated per liter; I generally mix 150ml - 400ml):
Gelatin 250 bloom - 100g
Sugar - 100g (low humidity here in this time of year; heavy curling)
Pigment is Amsterdam brand lamp black acrylic paint - 160g (yes, that much! I found it the only way to get sufficient contrast in the prints from the weak digital negatives I make)
No other additives. Haven't tried adding glycerin to deal with the curling, but I found that using more sugar and storing the tissue flat under a pile of books helps enough with that.
I pour to a height of 0.5-1mm on cheap 200g/sqm A5 size sketching paper, ca. 20ml for a 17x13cm size (6.8" x 5.2"); drying time is ca. 36 hours.
I found that 'pouring' goes particularly well using a large 80ml syringe with a long, blunt needle (no coincidence these are the exact items that are shipped with the ConeColor Pro ink set...). Easy dosage, virtually no bubbles, very even thickness.
Sensitizing:
Spirit sensitizer, 6% ammoniumbichromate in water, diluted with acetone to 0.75% to 2% working solution, 4ml per print for the indicated size (= 30mg to 80mg ammoniumbichromate per print)
Brushed on with a 1" soft brush or a 3" foam brush; I see little difference in terms of application with particularly weaker dilutions being prone to brush marks regardless of the brush used.
I tried diluting with denatured alcohol, which worked fine (no fogging or other unwanted chemical interactions), but dried *much* slower than acetone.
Exposure:
Philips face tanning unit HB172 with 4x15W fluorescent tanning tubes.
Distance between light source and tissue on exposure is 30cm (12"). This prevents the tissue from heating up and getting sticky. I could probably get away with 15cm/6", but tolerances on exposure would be smaller as well.
As a printing frame, I use a cheap photo frame. I place a kitchen towel under the tissue in order to keep it flat; I found this helps tremendously in getting good contact between the tissue and the negative.
Exposure times vary between 6m50s to 7m30s, depending on desired contrast, dmax, etc. Most of the contrast control is done by varying the sensitizer concentration.
Transfer and development:
I transfer to Schut A5 sized 160g/sqm sketching paper, which I also use for cyanotypes. I size it three times with a 3% gelatin + ca. 1% chrome alum solution.
I noticed no differences in the transfer process or success rate with transfer water temperatures varying from ca. 16C to 30C (ca. 60F - 85F).
I let the tissue-paper sandwich rest for ca. 30 minutes under the pressure of a couple of books.
'Development' is done in water of 40C - 70C (ca. 105 - 160F); again, I noticed no real differences other than hotter water works a bit faster (but not very much) and is obviously harder on the paper.
After development is complete, I gently scrape away the unwanted borders of tissue outside the image area and rinse briefly in cold, running water. Hang to dry.
I'll probably make changes as I continue experimentation, but I find that the method described above works pretty well at this point for me. YMMV.
Digital snapshot of my girlfriend (EOS7D with 35/2IS); slightly overexposed during printing (visible in the safe edge). 0.75% sensitizer, 7m30s.
http://www.koraks.nl/galleries/prints/CPT_141_E.jpg
Some bubbles and pigment clumps due to errors during transfer and hot water development (scratched the unwanted tissue from the edges in the hot water bath; not a good idea, it turned out).
Photo from a shoot with a friend's band a couple of years ago (EOS20D with 24-70L; no longer in my possession due to theft...). 1.75% sensitizer, ca. 7m
http://www.koraks.nl/galleries/prints/CPT_141_S.jpg
You may or may not like the pretty extensive dodging and burning in digital post processing; either way, they have little to do with the printing process. Just so you know.
I mentioned elsewhere on the forum that I have fallen into the hole of carbon printing as well. About two weeks after starting with this endeavor, I am capable of producing prints that are sort of passable. I use digital negatives because this approach gives me more freedom in terms of image size, as well as more consistency in my approach. For your entertainment, inspiration or critique, I'll share my process parameters:
Digital negatives:
Epson 3880 with Jon Cone's ConeColor Pro inkset (not ideal for digital negatives, but I like to use one printer for all my printing purposes)
Color density +50
Advanced B&W mode; yellow +75, photo black
Esselte 57161 A4-sized inkjet transparencies
Front feed to prevent pizza wheels (works like a treat too!)
I use a 3mm printed safe edge.
Glop recipe (amounts indicated per liter; I generally mix 150ml - 400ml):
Gelatin 250 bloom - 100g
Sugar - 100g (low humidity here in this time of year; heavy curling)
Pigment is Amsterdam brand lamp black acrylic paint - 160g (yes, that much! I found it the only way to get sufficient contrast in the prints from the weak digital negatives I make)
No other additives. Haven't tried adding glycerin to deal with the curling, but I found that using more sugar and storing the tissue flat under a pile of books helps enough with that.
I pour to a height of 0.5-1mm on cheap 200g/sqm A5 size sketching paper, ca. 20ml for a 17x13cm size (6.8" x 5.2"); drying time is ca. 36 hours.
I found that 'pouring' goes particularly well using a large 80ml syringe with a long, blunt needle (no coincidence these are the exact items that are shipped with the ConeColor Pro ink set...). Easy dosage, virtually no bubbles, very even thickness.
Sensitizing:
Spirit sensitizer, 6% ammoniumbichromate in water, diluted with acetone to 0.75% to 2% working solution, 4ml per print for the indicated size (= 30mg to 80mg ammoniumbichromate per print)
Brushed on with a 1" soft brush or a 3" foam brush; I see little difference in terms of application with particularly weaker dilutions being prone to brush marks regardless of the brush used.
I tried diluting with denatured alcohol, which worked fine (no fogging or other unwanted chemical interactions), but dried *much* slower than acetone.
Exposure:
Philips face tanning unit HB172 with 4x15W fluorescent tanning tubes.
Distance between light source and tissue on exposure is 30cm (12"). This prevents the tissue from heating up and getting sticky. I could probably get away with 15cm/6", but tolerances on exposure would be smaller as well.
As a printing frame, I use a cheap photo frame. I place a kitchen towel under the tissue in order to keep it flat; I found this helps tremendously in getting good contact between the tissue and the negative.
Exposure times vary between 6m50s to 7m30s, depending on desired contrast, dmax, etc. Most of the contrast control is done by varying the sensitizer concentration.
Transfer and development:
I transfer to Schut A5 sized 160g/sqm sketching paper, which I also use for cyanotypes. I size it three times with a 3% gelatin + ca. 1% chrome alum solution.
I noticed no differences in the transfer process or success rate with transfer water temperatures varying from ca. 16C to 30C (ca. 60F - 85F).
I let the tissue-paper sandwich rest for ca. 30 minutes under the pressure of a couple of books.
'Development' is done in water of 40C - 70C (ca. 105 - 160F); again, I noticed no real differences other than hotter water works a bit faster (but not very much) and is obviously harder on the paper.
After development is complete, I gently scrape away the unwanted borders of tissue outside the image area and rinse briefly in cold, running water. Hang to dry.
I'll probably make changes as I continue experimentation, but I find that the method described above works pretty well at this point for me. YMMV.
Digital snapshot of my girlfriend (EOS7D with 35/2IS); slightly overexposed during printing (visible in the safe edge). 0.75% sensitizer, 7m30s.
http://www.koraks.nl/galleries/prints/CPT_141_E.jpg
Some bubbles and pigment clumps due to errors during transfer and hot water development (scratched the unwanted tissue from the edges in the hot water bath; not a good idea, it turned out).
Photo from a shoot with a friend's band a couple of years ago (EOS20D with 24-70L; no longer in my possession due to theft...). 1.75% sensitizer, ca. 7m
http://www.koraks.nl/galleries/prints/CPT_141_S.jpg
You may or may not like the pretty extensive dodging and burning in digital post processing; either way, they have little to do with the printing process. Just so you know.
Nice write-up! The process is difficult but the results are worth it.
Thanks! I very much enjoy yours, thet must look stunning in real life. Yes indeed, even without a properly optimized curve, the results are really satisfying; obviously I'm biased since I put all the work in them, but you know how it is ;)
Funny thing about the process being difficult: I was reading a book from the early 1940s bout portrait photography and the final chapter discussed carbon prints. The author stated that any serious amateur should print his best photos as carban transfers due to their beauty, and he proceeded to explain that it makes sense as well from a practical viewpoint since the process is pretty easy. The art of inkjet printing was evidently still very far into the future.
"The Old Farm" - an 8" x 20" polychrome Gumoil Print
http://www.nanadadzie.com/sy-photos/2014/12/19/20/large_e78a551ef_OldFarm.jpg
The original image was captured on 4x10 Kodak Green Xray film, Fuji 210 f5.6 lens @ f32
Developed with Rodinal in Jobo
The back of the negative was stripped before scanning on Epson 700.
A digital positive was printed on Pictorico for this print.
Print on Arches Platine paper
The Gumoil process was invented by the late Karl Koenig in 1990.
Unlike the Gum Bichromate process (which has been around for over 100 years), one uses artists oil paint instead of watercolors.
Sticking with humble cyanotypes here when it makes sense. From a 6x6 cm 120 neg printed on pictorico ohp to 6". Double coated b&s chems on arches platine.https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7327/16288835590_8c34b8313e_c.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/photos/13759696@N02/16288835590/)
20150208_153347~2 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/13759696@N02/16288835590/) by philbrookjason (https://www.flickr.com/people/13759696@N02/), on Flickr
Emil Schildt
27-Feb-2015, 09:03
"Silent Night"
Real Negative - 30 sec on 12.500 iso - done at New Years night at 2.30...
Bromoil Print
"Stretched Out" - a tea-toned Cyanotype
http://nanadadzie.com/darkroom/pix/StretchedOut.jpg
Image on Fabriano Artistico paper
Toned with Lipton tea
"Tracks" - a duotone Gum-Oil print
http://nanadadzie.com/darkroom/pix/Tracks.jpg
Negative made on 4x10 green X-ray film with Fuji 210mm f5.6 lens at f22
Scanned and digital positive on Pictorico used for print
Size - 8" x 20"
Both very pleasing images, and somehow they work next to each other as well! I should try some toned cyanos myself again. Did you bleach this before toning?
Both very pleasing images, and somehow they work next to each other as well! I should try some toned cyanos myself again. Did you bleach this before toning?
Thanks, Koraks! Yea, I always tone cyanotypes before toning. I prefer the look. Try your hands at gum oil too. They are fun!
Emil Schildt
6-Mar-2015, 11:50
Thanks, Koraks! Yea, I always tone cyanotypes before toning. I prefer the look. Try your hands at gum oil too. They are fun!
how do you "tone cyanotypes before toning" ?
sounds neat.. :D
Emil, thanks for catching the typo. Meant to write "I always bleach cyanotypes before toning!"
"Rings in the Wall" - a carbon transfer print
http://nanadadzie.com/darkroom/pix/RingIntheWall.jpg
12" x 18"
On fixed out Ilford 300 paper
Tissue made with Black cat India ink.
I should do some more carbon transfer, thanks for reminding me ndg ;) I love that print, it's very moody!
Here's a Van Dyke brown print made from a Pan F 50 35mm negative. Size is approx. 5x7". Toned very briefly in gold (before fixing) and selenium followed by iron (after fixing) to neutralize the color a bit and to reach the desired contrast.
http://www.koraks.nl/galleries/prints/VdB%20chopping%20block%20digneg%20gold-sel-iron.jpg
A very good picture! Live the tonality.
Thanks Ron! This was shot in a little community garden shed that offered lots of opportunities for nice still lives. I shot more than half a roll in there!
My first contributie on this forum.
It's a gold toned kallitype.
http://www.cromberge.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Scan-150223-0008.jpg
Nice one, Ron! I like the subtlety!
I just checked your website and it appears we're stomping the same ground ;) Southern half of the country eh?
Barry Kirsten
25-Mar-2015, 13:36
Nice! Lovely images on your website, Ron.
Yup, we are. I'm walk above the great rivers.
Cool; I'm on the other side, close to the border.
Koraks and Ron, nice work!
Emil Schildt
12-May-2015, 14:03
Found a plastic bag full of old exposed films.... (done by me)
I had no idea what was on them so I stand developed most of them and found some I liked...
Diana camera - then girlfriend posing for sculpture lessons..
Bromoil prints.
John Jarosz
12-May-2015, 16:27
Drag racing in the mid '80's. Ektachrome original w/ a Hasselblad & 350mm lens. Digital negs weren't invented yet, so I made a film neg to make a carbon transfer print. Print size is 11"x11" 133721
"The Drink" - an Oil Pigment Print
http://nanadadzie.com/darkroom/pix/TheDrink-II.jpg
Original image captured on Kodak Ektascan 4 x 5 with Speed Graphic and Optar 135mm at f4.7
Neg scanned and dig neg made on Pictorico for print
Paper -fixed out Foma Fomatone MG Classic 532-II VC FB Warmtone Natural Matte
Ink - Graphic Chemical Litho ink black (thinned with linseed oil)
"Aloe" - a Gum-over-Cyanotype print
http://nanadadzie.com/darkroom/pix/Aloe.jpg
Print on 11" x 14" fixed out Ilford 300 paper
"A Wintry Scene" - an Oil Pigment Print
http://nanadadzie.com/darkroom/pix/AWintryScene.jpg
Size - 7" x 13"
Original image captured last winter on Kodak Ektascan 8x10, Fuji 250mm f6.7 lens @ f22,
Shen-Hao FCL 810A
Neg scanned and dig neg made on Pictorico for print
Paper -fixed out Foma Fomatone MG Classic 532-II VC FB Warmtone Natural Matte
Ink - Graphic Chemical Litho ink black (thinned with linseed oil)
Selenium Toned Vandyke
136317
My first Alt-Process print from a Digital Negative.
Selenium Toned Vandyke
136317
My first Alt-Process print from a Digital Negative.
That's very nice!
bob carnie
4-Jul-2015, 06:08
136332
Here is a gum over palladium - not completely finished yet
Image courtesy Monica Glitz
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Here is a gum over palladium - not completely finished yet
Image courtesy Monica Glitz
That is so cool!
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Here is a gum over palladium - not completely finished yet
Image courtesy Monica Glitz
Bob,
Very nice printing!!
Sandy
bob carnie
4-Jul-2015, 13:13
Thanks Sandy - we are starting to make progress- by this time next year maybe will have done 1/2 of the 10000 prints needed to get a great handle on the process.
Paulette is going to start doing a bunch of cyanotype / palladium using Sam Wang's method.
will post more as we go.
bob carnie
4-Jul-2015, 13:50
Sandy- you notice the stosser system is working well... and NO you cannot have it back.
Sandy- you notice the stosser system is working well... and NO you cannot have it back.
Is Paulette using the Stosser system for cyanotype over platinum? Sam's work looks very sharp and he is doing basic manual registration with his two-color negatives.
Sandy
bob carnie
5-Jul-2015, 06:25
Yes she will be using Stosser and aluminum registration.. but I can understand why Sam's look sharp as both negatives basically blend into each other , I imagine one of the images is more dominant and provides
the sharpness, and the other fills in the blanks. He also could be sharpening the dominant image like we do to provide a more convincing look. Also he probably has his sizing method
nailed.
I will encourage her to try some different sized papers and see if she can make it work without punch method.
We are only sharpening the palladium negative in our work, the three colours are not sharpened, funny it almost works as if the image is more sharp this way.
The last project we worked on was a series of prints from the original I Phone. I thought the prints would be less than crisp, I was totally blown away with the overall sharpness. We were maginifying
the images to 10 x10 inch. There is one which I am keeping as a printer proof which is two little children walking into an adobe type building in Afganastan which is IMO one of the nicest images I have
ever printed.. talk about a concept- IPhone- Afganastan- Children- combined with a process that mixes two Century's of technology and process.
If you think about the concept of un-sharp masking its the close butting up of a sharp area(tone) to a soft area(tone) to create the illusion- this is all making sense to me now.
Gangler and Bently are laying down three layers to Melemix ( which will not shrink)then transfer as a complete package to a receiving paper so they have figured out their way of keeping it all registered.
We tried Johns melimex with a total disaster - the curl post process was impossible to deal with. Using this aluminum is very slick and easy. We are now going to try over the next few months a releasable
mount material which will then allows the paper to be off the aluminum. But I must say once on aluminum the final presentation matted and framed is quite lovely.
I am hoping this system of registration transfers well as I move up to larger prints. I know the positioning of the punch hole registration will be on the long side of the image and as well as close as I can
get to critical image area. We are going to move to the big exposing system in the new year. We have been keeping the non image area active so far so we can see the accumulation
of our work in the rebate area and also see the registration tabs. Will eventually tire of this cool look and clean up rebate with a ruby mask on top.
There are lots of variables. One that has proven to be a life saver is keeping the rooms at around 45% humidity. The winter months will require a few more humidifiers downstairs to make this
all happen.
Is Paulette using the Stosser system for cyanotype over platinum? Sam's work looks very sharp and he is doing basic manual registration with his two-color negatives.
Sandy
bob carnie
5-Jul-2015, 06:29
By the way Sandy - We would not be where we are with our process if it was not for your generosity of knowledge over the years and I am truly grateful for your advice, and friendship... Sam Wang, Ron Reeder , Steve Sherman have also been very helpful in their guidance.
Paulette is almost adopted by Ron and she is going out to his place again in October to see the old coot.
...
We are now going to try over the next few months a releasable
mount material which will then allows the paper to be off the aluminum. But I must say once on aluminum the final presentation matted and framed is quite lovely.
.....
Why not glue the paper directly, and permanently, to a surface like dibond?
Sandy
bob carnie
5-Jul-2015, 08:29
we are.. directly to 20 gage aluminum
diabond is too thick to work for us.
Why not glue the paper directly, and permanently, to a surface like dibond?
Sandy
....
diabond is too thick to work for us.
Why? Is is a mechanical issue with registration and the glass/vacuum blanket?
Sandy
bob carnie
5-Jul-2015, 09:00
Yes- the 25gage aluminum sucked the rubber blanket inwards and we had to adjust the blanket , I have never seen this with the Nuark with photocomp.
I guess we could lower the pressure but going to the thinner gage aluminum gives no problem and also is lighter for final presentation.
Why? Is is a mechanical issue with registration and the glass/vacuum blanket?
Sandy
bob carnie
5-Jul-2015, 09:03
BTW if you are looking for this gage aluminum it is harder than 25 which seems to be the standard.. in some shops they call it shim aluminum
Here is another one courtesy of Monica Glitz
you can see the aluminum mount on the far right with the three stroesser holes.
136396
bob carnie
5-Jul-2015, 09:52
136407
so this image is courtesy Rita Leistner. It is not the final but close to the print I made for her show.. I Phone capture printed tri colour over palladium- this one the channels in the CMY were suspect so
we used R G B channels which were cleaner and tried pigments to make work... I really love this image and feel it captures the world of photography IMO of course.
136408
this image courtesy Bob Carnie (yours truly) - this is part of my ongoing solarization project and is where all the last years of madness is leading too. I have a nice set of silver solarizations from regular neg, now I will be making these tri colour over palladium - next step is to take my solarized bw negatives and tri tone them using Blend If and separating highlight , mid and shadow and applying tones over palladium .
I am happy finally after about 10 dam long years of research, test, back off and research more to be making prints that I plan to exhibit on Canada's 150 birthday July 1 2015.
Interesting images.
This thread hasn't had this much activity since it's creation.:)
bob carnie
5-Jul-2015, 10:09
give me time , you will be absolutely sick of me within a 6 month period..
I am like fish , basically ok for about 3 days in the open.
bob
Interesting images.
This thread hasn't had this much activity since it's creation.:)
Yes- the 25gage aluminum sucked the rubber blanket inwards and we had to adjust the blanket , I have never seen this with the Nuark with photocomp.
I guess we could lower the pressure but going to the thinner gage aluminum gives no problem and also is lighter for final presentation.
Bob,
If you ever get a unit like the NuArc "Starlight" you would not have this kind of issue. This unit, which is designed primarily for the screen printing industry, uses a flexible neoprene blanket and it will actually create a vacuum drawing down over the large screens used in that industry. I am printing at this time with a poor man's version of this concept, the X-Vactor, produced and sold by Ryonet. I have done a fair amount of customizing to my unit, installing a light integrator sensor, and running the unit through an Olix light integrator. The X-Vactor is a bit underpowered IMO so I am supplementing the existing 36" long BL T8 tubes with 2400 of the 5050 LEDs with output in the 395-405 range. This will give a total of some 800 watts of low temperature UV radiation and I am expecting that printing times will be about 1/4 what they are with the 1000 watt HID platemakers.
On the immediate agenda here are carbon transfer prints 24X36" in size, from digital negatives of course. Somewhere down the line I may try some palladium over cyanotype with two-color separations.
Sandy
bob carnie
5-Jul-2015, 11:53
I cannot wait to see one of those big boys, I imagine they will be mind blowing..
What is your position on cyanotype longevity as compared to lets say a good blue transparent pigment??
I cannot wait to see one of those big boys, I imagine they will be mind blowing..
What is your position on cyanotype longevity as compared to lets say a good blue transparent pigment??
I believe Cyanotype is very permanent. My understanding is that it can loose some of its denisty and color in alkaline conditions, but that conditions of acidity will bring the print back to life.
It has been quite a challenge getting all the pieces together that will allow me to make carbon transfer prints of this size. And lots of the pleasure for me in printing is figuring out how to do something. The end product is definitely important, but the process is what keeps me going. In any event, I have an image in mind for the first big boy, and will keep you posted when it comes out!!
Sandy
"The Other Side" - a Gum Bichromate Print
http://nanadadzie.com/darkroom/pix/TheOtherSide.jpg
Size - 8" x 12"
On Artistico Fabriano paper.
Negative scanned and digital neg print made on Pictorico for print.
bob carnie
20-Jul-2015, 13:14
So what pigment set did you use for this and is it a single hit?
I want to try Fabriano for my work as well as the arches, and lanaqurelle.
"The Other Side" - a Gum Bichromate Print
http://nanadadzie.com/darkroom/pix/TheOtherSide.jpg
Size - 8" x 12"
On Artistico Fabriano paper.
Negative scanned and digital neg print made on Pictorico for print.
Bob, initially i size the paper with a thick paste of gum that I then harden with dichromate.
Then i coat with the pigmented gum. For this I used Sennelier Ivory Black, 2 passes.
bob carnie
20-Jul-2015, 14:02
I like it , looks like the registration held nicely for you.
the print holds a lot of warmth, nice pigment.. I think the paper if I remember is not warm so the pigment must be warm.Y/N?
Bob, initially i size the paper with a thick paste of gum that I then harden with dichromate.
Then i coat with the pigmented gum. For this I used Sennelier Ivory Black, 2 passes.
Thanks! The size helped too.
I like it too and was planning to start my pigment print adventure with an ivory black. Now I know which one I will try first. This thread has some beautiful prints in it.
"Chains" - a Gold-toned Kallitype on sized WC paper.
http://nanadadzie.com/darkroom/pix/Chains.jpg
Size - 12" x 19"
I sized Artistico Fabriano paper with gelatin for this print.
On coating, got the white spots. Never could get rid of them.
Dig neg on Pictorico.
cuypers1807
25-Jul-2015, 06:38
Can Pictorico handle being put in an enlarger? I want to make a digital positive for wet plate work. Enlargement would be minimal. Some would be 1:1.
Can Pictorico handle being put in an enlarger? I want to make a digital positive for wet plate work. Enlargement would be minimal. Some would be 1:1.
Haven't tried it but I don't see why not. As long it lets light through, it should work.
bob carnie
25-Jul-2015, 07:26
Not with good results IMO.. You can have LVT negatives made which are what Salgado and many other workers are doing.
Can Pictorico handle being put in an enlarger? I want to make a digital positive for wet plate work. Enlargement would be minimal. Some would be 1:1.
Colin Graham
26-Jul-2015, 11:14
http://colinflanarygraham.com/darkshop/public_html/darkshop/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/printscan31.jpg
Pbk6+PBr7 pigmented carbon tissue, transfer on Lana WC. Digital negative from a 5x7 original.
"Chains" - a Gold-toned Kallitype on sized WC paper.
http://nanadadzie.com/darkroom/pix/Chains.jpg
Size - 12" x 19"
I sized Artistico Fabriano paper with gelatin for this print.
On coating, got the white spots. Never could get rid of them.
Dig neg on Pictorico.
Sizing is difficult for metal like sensitizers. Stevens mention in his book Sizing only if the paper is to open. His formula is :
7g gelatin
500 ml distilled water
1g alum
25 ml alcohol absolute
Mix and heat als normal.
I tried it and it works.
Greetings Ron
Colin Graham
26-Jul-2015, 12:49
I sized Artistico Fabriano paper with gelatin for this print.
On coating, got the white spots. Never could get rid of them.
If you're just looking for a sheen enhancement, post-sizing over the finished print with gelatin works quite well.
Colin Graham
26-Jul-2015, 12:50
lit developer
http://i038.radikal.ru/1412/b6/ceb266727d3c.jpg (http://www.radikal.ru)
This is really cool!
Thanks guys! I size to prevent the image to sink into the fibers of the paper. It seems to pop more on sized paper.
Sizing is difficult for metal like sensitizers. Stevens mention in his book Sizing only if the paper is to open. His formula is :
7g gelatin
500 ml distilled water
1g alum
25 ml alcohol absolute
Mix and heat als normal.
I tried it and it works.
Greetings Ron
That's a very heavy size!
Is that chrome alum or potassium alum?
That's a very heavy size!
Is that chrome alum or potassium alum?
Sorry for my late response.
7gr on 500 ml is a thin solution normal they say for normal sizing twice the amount gelatin.
And yes chrome alum.
I have tried it with unmixed and light sized kallitype. The sized one seemed a slight more dmax and a slight darker to black color. With de receipt from sevens book.
100 MG sodium acetate (the cheap food grade)
3gr tartaric acid
2ml 2% dichromate (pot / amm)
1 liter (distilled) water. (I use normal water) in Holland the water quality is very good and pure.
"Just the Skin" - a platinum-palladium print
http://nanadadzie.com/darkroom/pix/OnionSkin.jpg
Print on Berger COT-320 paper, 16" x 20"
Dig neg on pictorico
bob carnie
13-Aug-2015, 05:53
What kind of sizing proceedure are you using, do you wish to share. We seem to be having a few issues .
Thanks guys! I size to prevent the image to sink into the fibers of the paper. It seems to pop more on sized paper.
Hi Bob, I did not size the last image I posted. I have given up trying to use sized paper for Pd/Pt. When I did, i used gelatin and did not use any platinum in those prints as platinum supposedly binds to the gelatin. Occassionally, I have also sized with gum.
"The Old Church Bell" - a Palladium Print
http://nanadadzie.com/darkroom/pix/ChurchBell.jpg
For this, I sized the paper with gum before coating with with FeOx-Palladium.
The paper is Arches Platine.
The dig neg is on Pictorico.
, I sized the paper with gum before coating .
That's interesting. I have wondered in the past about whether gum sizing would work for alt-processes, but this is the first time I have found anyone referring to it directly.
As before, may I ask for a little more detail?
Andrew O'Neill
19-Aug-2015, 05:23
When you say you sized with gum, do you mean gum arabic?
I mix gum arabic powder and water at a ratio of 1:2. So 100 gm of gum in 200 cc of water. I leave the mixture in the fridge a few days to totally mix and dissolve. I don't add any preservatives and haven't needed to.
To size, I mix the gum with ammonium dichromate at a ratio of 2 of gum to one of dichromate.
I coat using a foam brush and dry in the dark room. Once dry, I zap it in my UV printer. I expose for the average time I need for gum prints. In my case, about 7 min. Then I clear the paper in water, solutions of sodium metabisulfite and water again.
Most times, one coat of size has sufficed. Occasionally, I've had to do a second coat.
Ah perhaps we have a difference in terminology.
I would regard a size as consisting only of a solution to modify the absorbancy of the paper, whereas gum+dichromate I would consider as forming part of a sensitising coating
Ah perhaps we have a difference in terminology.
I would regard a size as consisting only of a solution to modify the absorbancy of the paper, whereas gum+dichromate I would consider as forming part of a sensitising coating
Maybe I wasn't clear enough. Did you read my process completely? I coat my WC paper with the gum+bichromate mix, dry it and expose the sized paper (no negative) in my uv printer. This hardens the gum so it can act as a layer of sizing and modify the absorbancy of the paper! So far no negative! I then wash out the dichromate leaving me a WC paper with gum sizing! When this piece of gum-sized WC paper is dry, I sensitize with my pd-feox solution!
Thank you, I hadn't cottoned on properly
bob carnie
19-Aug-2015, 09:04
Interesting idea -- hang out here long enough and you will definately learn new tricks .. want to give this one a try.
Maybe I wasn't clear enough. Did you read my process completely? I coat my WC paper with the gum+bichromate mix, dry it and expose the sized paper (no negative) in my uv printer. This hardens the gum so it can act as a layer of sizing and modify the absorbancy of the paper! So far no negative! I then wash out the dichromate leaving me a WC paper with gum sizing! When this piece of gum-sized WC paper is dry, I sensitize with my pd-feox solution!
Emil Schildt
19-Aug-2015, 13:14
Just some swans of Prague in Bromoil
"Lilies" - a Carbon Transfer Print
http://nanadadzie.com/darkroom/pix/Lilies.jpg
Captured with 19" Derogy Petzval on 11" x14" green Xray negative, Century 8A, about f5.
Film developed in Rodinal using Jobo, scanned on Epson 10000XL.
Digital Negative printed Pictorico
Print on fixed-out glossy photo paper.
Pigment - Black Cat India ink.
Great print once again ndg! If you don't mind my asking, why the diversion of a digital negative?
In my first attempt, the negative got stuck to the tissue - too much moisture. Luckily, I scan most negatives so I was able to create a dig neg for this print. Also, I couldn't capture it again because the plant had withered badly.
"Petals" - a Carbon Transfer Print
http://nanadadzie.com/darkroom/pix/Petals.jpg
Another form my Flowers series.
9" x 13"
The digital negative is on Pictorico.
The tissue was made with mix of Sumi and India inks.
Final support - fixed out 12 x16 Ilford Art 300 paper.
Ricardo de Oliveira
8-Sep-2015, 05:33
This is a green tea toned cyanotype from a digital file, printed in Canson 55lbs Vellum.
First try and I'm amazed with the almost zero stain in the paper and the deep chocolate black hue.
As always, much nicer in your hands, with a soft back light enhancing the translucent support:
139387
This is a green tea toned cyanotype from a digital file, printed in Canson 55lbs Vellum.
First try and I'm amazed with the almost zero stain in the paper and the deep chocolate black hue.
As always, much nicer in your hands, with a soft back light enhancing the translucent support:
139387
Ricardo, that's nice!
Ricardo de Oliveira
8-Sep-2015, 07:58
Thanks, ndg!
cuypers1807
8-Sep-2015, 09:08
Is there a thread I can post alt. work from 35mm and 120 positives or is this it?
Is there a thread I can post alt. work from 35mm and 120 positives or is this it?
There are 2 alt process threads. The other one is for prints using LF in-camera negs. So unless you want to start a separate thread on using small format in-camera negs for alt-process work, I'll say, post them right here!
cuypers1807
8-Sep-2015, 19:59
Cool. thanks.
cuypers1807
9-Sep-2015, 10:42
I have been making tintypes from 35mm and 645 positives lately. It really opens up subject matter for wet plate. This is an 8x10 tintype from a 645 RPX25 positive through DR5.
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3771/18513640883_76f63aa2ab_c.jpg
I have been making tintypes from 35mm and 645 positives lately. It really opens up subject matter for wet plate. This is an 8x10 tintype from a 645 RPX25 positive through DR5.
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3771/18513640883_76f63aa2ab_c.jpg
Wow!
Ricardo de Oliveira
9-Sep-2015, 10:59
I have been making tintypes from 35mm and 645 positives lately. It really opens up subject matter for wet plate. This is an 8x10 tintype from a 645 RPX25 positive through DR5.
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3771/18513640883_76f63aa2ab_c.jpg
Amazing!
Sorry my ignorance but what's DR5...
cuypers1807
9-Sep-2015, 11:30
Thank you both! DR5 is a reversal process that makes B&W negative film into positive slide film. DR5 unfortunately had to move as their building was sold and they have not yet started offering the service again. You can also use color slide film to make tintypes but I prefer the B&W. It gives me more control over the tones as there is no color bias normally found with the wet plate process. RPX25 is especially nice as it has extremely fine grain that is suitable for enlargement.
Do you expose in an enlarger?
cuypers1807
9-Sep-2015, 11:56
Yes, I use an enlarger.
Another great feature of shooting the B&W over color is the ability to have clouds in the sky. The usual blue sensitivity makes that impossible.
Also there is no way I could have carried all my gear up there for this shot. Also 645 positive to 8x10 plate.
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/588/21090599429_bcfa9e507c_c.jpg
Ricardo de Oliveira
9-Sep-2015, 13:26
Yes, I use an enlarger.
Another great feature of shooting the B&W over color is the ability to have clouds in the sky. The usual blue sensitivity makes that impossible.
Also there is no way I could have carried all my gear up there for this shot. Also 645 positive to 8x10 plate.
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/588/21090599429_bcfa9e507c_c.jpg
Still amazed!
Please, give us more details in your process. Exposure, chemistry etc.
Ideally a video in You Tube. ( just kidding):D
Yes, I use an enlarger.
Another great feature of shooting the B&W over color is the ability to have clouds in the sky. The usual blue sensitivity makes that impossible.
Also there is no way I could have carried all my gear up there for this shot. Also 645 positive to 8x10 plate.
Very cool! Would you display this with a backlight, or put a backing on the plate? Did you make the emulsion yourself or was it commercial liquid?
cuypers1807
9-Sep-2015, 20:50
Very cool! Would you display this with a backlight, or put a backing on the plate? Did you make the emulsion yourself or was it commercial liquid?
The two images here are tintypes on aluminum so no backing or lighting is necessary. I have also made ambrotypes from positives though and they would require a black background for proper viewing.
I am printing these essentially like a silver gelatin print.
The differences are that the original is a positive instead of a negative and the exposure times are much longer.
Exposure times can be as fast as 30 seconds and as long as 5 min depending on the age of the chemicals, size of film/enlargement, and density of positive. (cold head enlargers will be faster due to the fluorescent light source)
The two plates I posted today were made with Old Workhorse Collodion. I use Ilford Rapid Fix for a fixer instead of potassium cyanide.
As contrast filters will not work, I use different age collodions/exposure times to control the contrast of the plate.
I figured most of what I know through trial and error. I have a pretty good work flow now, so I am getting clean plates most of the time.
Thank you, I was thinking the second one was on glass, makes sense. Neat process and I'm looking forward to seeing more!
Yes, I use an enlarger.
Another great feature of shooting the B&W over color is the ability to have clouds in the sky. The usual blue sensitivity makes that impossible.
Also there is no way I could have carried all my gear up there for this shot. Also 645 positive to 8x10 plate.
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/588/21090599429_bcfa9e507c_c.jpg
I wonder if you can also post this in the Collodion thread.
cuypers1807
10-Sep-2015, 07:16
I have already had some booted out of there by the moderators because they didn't originate from a large format positive.
cuypers1807
12-Sep-2015, 18:50
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8726/17316234402_c1d2213a22_c.jpg
5x7 tintype from 645 RPX25 Positive. Looks like I need to clean my scanner.
"Overgrown" - a Platinum-Palladium print
http://nanadadzie.com/darkroom/pix/Overgrown.jpg
Print on Arches Platine paper. Image size 8" x 12"
Potassium oxalate developer
Digital capture. Digital negative on Pictorico used for print.
My first attempt for any alt process. Scannergram image. Pictorico negative. Toned Cyanotype.
http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp25/bruceolson/IMG_20150915_0002-2.jpg (http://s394.photobucket.com/user/bruceolson/media/IMG_20150915_0002-2.jpg.html)
http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp25/bruceolson/IMG_20150915_0001-1.jpg (http://s394.photobucket.com/user/bruceolson/media/IMG_20150915_0001-1.jpg.html)
My first attempt for any alt process. Scannergram image. Pictorico negative. Toned Cyanotype.
http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp25/bruceolson/IMG_20150915_0002-2.jpg (http://s394.photobucket.com/user/bruceolson/media/IMG_20150915_0002-2.jpg.html)
http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp25/bruceolson/IMG_20150915_0001-1.jpg (http://s394.photobucket.com/user/bruceolson/media/IMG_20150915_0001-1.jpg.html)
Great start! What did you tone with?
I used sodium carbonate rinse and tannic acid - Christopher James' formula. Probably left them in the first bath too long and got some mottling. Lots to learn.....
LoRusso
18-Sep-2015, 18:12
New to Alt-Process. Will be using Epson r1900 for Digital Neg. I need some recommendations for what to print on to make the actual negative.
What type of transparency film are people using.
I have briefly seen profiles to print digital negatives, anyone know if there is a version for the Epson printers.
Thanks
Bob
I use Pictorico Ultra Premium OHP Transparency film. You can get it from B&H.
LoRusso
18-Sep-2015, 18:46
I use Pictorico Ultra Premium OHP Transparency film. You can get it from B&H.
Thanks, What printer are you using? Are you using QTR if Epson
cuypers1807
18-Sep-2015, 19:27
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5634/21339862828_cd89a3e9a0_c.jpg
8x10 Tintype from 35mm Provia Positive. Canon EOS 1V & 70-200 2.8L
Sorry about the crappy phone shot of this plate. Trying to cut down on Internet theft.
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5634/21339862828_cd89a3e9a0_c.jpg
8x10 Tintype from 35mm Provia Positive. Canon EOS 1V & 70-200 2.8L
Sorry about the crappy phone shot of this plate. Trying to cut down on Internet theft.
Nice image!
Regarding internet theft, what can one do with a low-res jpg image?
Thanks, What printer are you using? Are you using QTR if Epson
I use the Epson 4900. No QTR.
cuypers1807
18-Sep-2015, 20:32
Nice image!
Regarding internet theft, what can one do with a low-res jpg image?
You would be surprised.
charlesholland
19-Sep-2015, 01:57
Learning a lot from this thread. Any links to more basic information would be great!
bob carnie
19-Sep-2015, 06:12
On my website www.bobcarnieprintmaking.ca there is a couple of videos on alternative process. More to come.
Learning a lot from this thread. Any links to more basic information would be great!
Selenium Toned Vandykes
139886 139887
Selenium Toned Vandykes
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Nicely done. The first one is my favorite.
BTW, what dilution of Selenium did you use? Did you tone before or after fixing?
Nicely done. The first one is my favorite.
Thanks, it's my favorite too.. :)
BTW, what dilution of Selenium did you use? Did you tone before or after fixing?
Toned after fixing. KRST 1:500.
Ricardo de Oliveira
23-Sep-2015, 18:07
Selenium Toned Vandykes
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Beautiful! What paper?
Originally shot on Delta 100 in a Sped Graphic
Scanned and printed on regular office inkjet printer paper
Waxed
Salt Printed on Strathmore Bostick 100lb hot press
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/582/21382909932_427cf30938_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/yzx19U)salt-print-003 (https://flic.kr/p/yzx19U) by James Harr (https://www.flickr.com/photos/harrlequin/), on Flickr
Beautiful! What paper?
Thank you Ricardo. Printed on Arches Platine.
LoRusso
25-Sep-2015, 16:43
Problems with Epson R1900 printing digital negatives.
Im getting lines across my film when I print.
Im using Pictorico OHP, printing with the recommended ICC Premium Glossy profile from Epson.
It prints fine on glossy paper, but not on the film.
Don't want to waste anymore film, anyone have same issue and find a profile that works for you?
Thanks
Bob
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The only time I get this with my 3880 is when I have clogged nozzles. Run a nozzle check to see if this is the case; it really looks like clogged nozzles or a head alignment issue. With transparencies, it can be a problem if the head passes too low over the pictorico. The thing with transparency film is that the ink tends to lay on top of it instead of soaking into the medium (as with inkjet paper), so the head needs to have a bit more clearance than with paper. Otherwise the head will touch the deposited ink, resulting in clogged nozzles.
"Old Truck"
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This is a green tea-toned Cyanotype on Gampi paper. It has been mounted as an encaustic photograph on a cradled artist panel.
Size - 12" x 18"
Bill Gunn - first attempt at making a digi neg from someone else's file, original image Copyright belongs to Paul Monaghan c/o www.thekirkystudio.com
300gsm Arches Aquarelle, 20 minutes or so under UV LED strips at a distance of 95mm.
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I had the opportunity recently to attend my first Platinum/Palladium printing workshop with a good friend. It was a wonderful experience to craft these prints with mine own hands using this alternative process. It was also great to be back in a real darkroom again. Albeit, you don't need to turn the lights out.
This is one of my platinum prints. Please be advised that this scan doesn't due the platinum/palladium process justice because; 1) I have a very mediocre scanner; and 2) I'm still learning, so my print is not as good as it could be. Properly done, platinum and palladium prints are absolutely magical and have a beautiful glow and subtle tonality. Until you see one of these prints in person, you can't really appreciate their unique qualities. The also have nearly unlimited permanence. It was a terrific experience I hope to pursue going forward.
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Frank_E
27-Nov-2015, 08:19
Here is a question about what is a good replacement Epson photo printer for digital negatives. I searched the group for posts on this topic and couldn't find any information. My Epson R2400 (purchased in 2006) is still ok but I expect it to give up the ghost in the next year or so. Works well with Pictorico OHP. It is my understanding that the current similar replacement model (i.e. 13 inch prints) is the Epson P600. Ted Forbes has a YouTube channel called "The Art of Photography" and he does weekly videos on various photo topics. His most recent is a review of the Epson P600. In that video he claims that the P600 does NOT print film such as Pictorico. Does anyone have more insight on this. The big question obviously is what decent new 13 inch Epson printer does one get to make digital negatives with, aside from buying used or a non current model (e.g. the R3000) which likely will soon be out of stock.
Erik Larsen
27-Nov-2015, 09:43
The P600 does fine with pictorico ultra premium, haven't tried regular pictorico. I'm not sure why he would make that statement?
The P600 does fine with pictorico ultra premium, haven't tried regular pictorico. I'm not sure why he would make that statement?
"Don't believe the hype" - Public Enemy[emoji2]
Tin Can
27-Nov-2015, 13:14
Mr Piezo, Jon Cone says he is selling B&W Digital negative inks sets for P600 soon.
I may try it again, this time with a P600 and his new set for P600. NOT EVER a Canon printer again!
http://shopping.netsuite.com/s.nl/c.362672/sc.42/category.136590/.f
Kirk Gittings
27-Nov-2015, 13:33
curious why Randy. I know a number of professionals who have switched to Canon the last few years and love them. I'm still going strong on my 3800, which I bought when they first came out-most reliable Epson I have ever had hands down.
Tin Can
27-Nov-2015, 13:35
I read somewhere, most likely on Jon Cone website that many latest Epson's will not allow refilled carts and has an unbeatable lockout.
He also said the P600 was not in that lockout group and he can hack the system with better and far cheaper digital neg inks.
Andrew O'Neill
27-Nov-2015, 13:40
Problems with Epson R1900 printing digital negatives.
Im getting lines across my film when I print.
Im using Pictorico OHP, printing with the recommended ICC Premium Glossy profile from Epson.
It prints fine on glossy paper, but not on the film.
Don't want to waste anymore film, anyone have same issue and find a profile that works for you?
You should run a nozzle check. Run a head cleaning cycle. A head alignment cycle wouldn't hurt either.
I use QTR to profile digital negs. http://www.quadtonerip.com/html/QTRoverview.html
Tin Can
27-Nov-2015, 14:00
curious why Randy. I know a number of professionals who have switched to Canon the last few years and love them.
I bought a B&H Canon PRO 1 early edition and had problems with not enough usage and having to replace all 12 inks way too often for my output. Even printing only monotone B&W it requires and drinks all 12 inks despite having 5 for B&W. No way to set the darn device to use only B&W ink. Insidious bean counters.
Then I bought a last full set of ink, $500 and bingo it demanded an online firmware upgrade but I could not do a firmware upgrade with up to date iOS or Win 8. Calling for service revealed Canon only has a far suburban service facility and they told me I must bring the 70 lb monster to them. Out of warranty and cash repair.
I don't have a car, i dislike renting one to drive to the burbs and I needed 2 people to carry it for me. I am still pissed. Obviously...
I gave it away in the FS section here and I never heard if the second owner got it working.
I paid $1000 for it, put about $2K in ink in it and I have 2 prints I like from it on my wall. $1500 prints!
I was ignorant when I bought and didn't yet know that the Cone system and Epson was the only practical way to make B&W prints and digital negs. My 2 Canon B&W keeper prints are really nice, but my digital negs never went anywhere.
Early on I contacted Jon Cone about making a Piezo set for the Canon and he declined. Smart guy!
I have bought and successfully used many Epson photo printers, not perfect but they never needed an ambulance ride.
ymmv
Randy, you can make digital negatives with the Epson 4900 and the Epson ink set. That is all I use. Have had it since 2012.
Tin Can
27-Nov-2015, 17:56
Randy, you can make digital negatives with the Epson 4900 and the Epson ink set. That is all I use. Have had it since 2012.
Thanks for the tip. I believe that model is being discontinued.
I will get a fresh Epson pony, P600 when Jon Cone has it all figured out.
No hurry. I don't think...
Frank_E
27-Nov-2015, 18:37
The P600 does fine with pictorico ultra premium, haven't tried regular pictorico. I'm not sure why he would make that statement?
thanks for the response Erik. Are you using the P600 with the Epson inks or the Cone inks?. Are you printing with QTR?
Erik Larsen
27-Nov-2015, 19:16
thanks for the response Erik. Are you using the P600 with the Epson inks or the Cone inks?. Are you printing with QTR?
I'm using the epson inks with the method taught in Christina andersons book. I don't see the reason to do qtr at this point as I'm happy with this method.
I believe this image, and this thread belong somewhere other than the Large Format Forum. A digitally captured image is not large format.
Some use LF cameras, scan the negative and make an enlarged digital negative so they can print much larger without having to deal with a much larger camera - for a variety of reasons.
The size and weight difference in carrying a 4x5 compared to a 12x20 outfit are major. Digital negatives make larger final contact prints a viable process.
Frank_E
28-Nov-2015, 14:59
Eric, thanks for the response.
For others, here is further information that I learned in connection to my question about the Epson P600 printer. It is useful to know. This was the reply I got on another discussion forum that deals with digital negatives. "A lot of the printers use optical paper sensors that see thru the film and will not load it. The fix it to tape a 5" piece of white paper along the loading edge of the paper".
Erik Larsen
28-Nov-2015, 16:53
I've not had a problem loading pictorico. I use the premium lustre photo paper setting in the printer dialog settings if that makes a difference. I don't think there is a pictorico film option to use? I am not an advanced digital negative printer so I'm not familiar with the potential pitfalls the p600 might cause, just that I haven't experienced any so far.
Frank_E
22-Jan-2016, 08:59
here are two versions of the same digital negative
first in Palladium:
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/284/20395823301_b63f1a933f_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/x5iVFT)11. NYC (https://flic.kr/p/x5iVFT) by Frank Gab&Tor (https://www.flickr.com/photos/feberdt/), on Flickr
then in Cyanotype:
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1535/24431902932_891afbcbfd_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/DdXTxJ)New York (https://flic.kr/p/DdXTxJ) by Frank Gab&Tor (https://www.flickr.com/photos/feberdt/), on Flickr
Nice image and beautiful prints, Frank! New Cyanotype I presume?
The cyanotype just glows - perfect!
Frank_E
23-Jan-2016, 11:36
Nice image and beautiful prints, Frank! New Cyanotype I presume?
yes new cyanotype
and thanks to both of you for the comments
bob carnie
28-Jan-2016, 11:48
that is quite striking Andrew I imagine the contrast of the metal against the softness of the flower is stunning in Carbon.
Here are a couple of Gum Over sepia from a mid tone separation over platinum palladium- these are from a series I just completed
for Rita Leistner - one of my favorite photographers and good friend.
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these are images from her prisoner series.
MODERATOR'S NOTE: moved from the LF alt process thread as these originated from DSLR captures.
Absolutely stunning prints, Bob. Great work!
bob carnie
28-Jan-2016, 12:56
Thanks koraks
really helps when the imagery is strong, strong ,strong.
Rita is becoming quite collectible- we are sure a lot of her work will end up in The National Archives of Canada, and if so I want it to be prints that will last.
So far I have made over 58 permanent prints for her.
Bob
Absolutely stunning prints, Bob. Great work!
sanking
29-Jan-2016, 20:41
Clouds in the Badlands of South Dakota.
Carbon transfer print about 18 inches in diameter on 20X24 matte surface paper. Image capture was FF digital, using the full round image of a lens. Printed with a digital negative.
Sandy
Clouds in the Badlands of South Dakota.
Carbon transfer print about 18 inches in diameter on 20X24 matte surface paper. Image capture was FF digital, using the full round image of a lens. Printed with a digital negative.
Sandy
Wow Sandy! Nice!
sanking
29-Jan-2016, 21:39
Wow Sandy! Nice!
Thank you Nana. Those clouds were spectacular as there appeared to be two fronts colliding with one another about in the middle of the picture. It was also raining pretty hard when I made the shots for the round stitch, holding my hat over the camera. And as soon I got back into the car the heavens really opened so that was the last opportunity of the day.
Sandy
The bane of the great shot - right place at the right time!
bob carnie
30-Jan-2016, 08:52
Ok - you have been hanging around Sam to much
wonderful sky it probably glows.
bob
Clouds in the Badlands of South Dakota.
Carbon transfer print about 18 inches in diameter on 20X24 matte surface paper. Image capture was FF digital, using the full round image of a lens. Printed with a digital negative.
Sandy
bob carnie
2-Feb-2016, 11:43
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kgt30bZyKY8
Here is a video on how we do some of our work hope its helpful for those wanting to do exact registration techniques.
Clouds in the Badlands of South Dakota.
Oh my... You really kicked that one right out of the ball park.
Bravissimo !
I've been experimenting a bit with photopolymer intaglio. I think I've found a set of process parameters now that allows me to make decent prints from inkjet printed positives. Obviously, the photos of the prints do the actual prints little justice, but so it goes.
Both shot in Morocco earlier this month on 35mm, the first on Ektar 100 (the harem of a 17th century riad in Meknes) and the second on TMY2 (in the medina of Fez). Digital photos of actual prints. Image size is 10x15cm, print size 16x24cm. Paper is Schut Simili Japon 225gsm, Charbonnel black etching ink. DK3 photopolymer exposed using my trusty face tanner.
http://www.koraks.nl/galleries/prints/ME161_IP_MG_0141.jpg
http://www.koraks.nl/galleries/prints/ME161_IP_MG_0143.jpg
bob carnie
28-Feb-2016, 07:55
Koraks
quite stunning, I would love to see them in real life. the method of printing , colour and tone is perfect .
I've been experimenting a bit with photopolymer intaglio. I think I've found a set of process parameters now that allows me to make decent prints from inkjet printed positives. Obviously, the photos of the prints do the actual prints little justice, but so it goes.
Both shot in Morocco earlier this month on 35mm, the first on Ektar 100 (the harem of a 17th century riad in Meknes) and the second on TMY2 (in the medina of Fez). Digital photos of actual prints. Image size is 10x15cm, print size 16x24cm. Paper is Schut Simili Japon 225gsm, Charbonnel black etching ink. DK3 photopolymer exposed using my trusty face tanner.
http://www.koraks.nl/galleries/prints/ME161_IP_MG_0141.jpg
http://www.koraks.nl/galleries/prints/ME161_IP_MG_0143.jpg
Very nice!
Thanks! Took me a bit of fiddling to get it working, but these results are encouraging to me.
Erik Larsen
8-Mar-2016, 21:40
Attempting something I'm a novice at, inspired to give it a try by seeing some of the wonderful results that Bob Carnie has shown here. This is a gum over platinum/palladium. CMY as well as a pt/pd negatives used. The colors are no where near the original colors, but is has somewhat real but not really look to it[emoji3] It was an interesting experiment for me. 8x10 print on platine.
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bob carnie
9-Mar-2016, 11:52
Erik - every thing you are doing I like - the colour palette is quite nice and interesting.
Attempting something I'm a novice at, inspired to give it a try by seeing some of the wonderful results that Bob Carnie has shown here. This is a gum over platinum/palladium. CMY as well as a pt/pd negatives used. The colors are no where near the original colors, but is has somewhat real but not really look to it[emoji3] It was an interesting experiment for me. 8x10 print on platine.
148028
bob carnie
9-Mar-2016, 12:14
To Eriks comments above.. and his image -
I strive for a colour balance that is complimentary to the project I am working on. I am not fixated on real colour as I have been making TRUE colour images for over 40 years now and frankly I am bored with this reality.
I was lucky to enough to see some Fresson's years back and original Stephen Livik Tri Colour Gums. These influenced me greatly to want to do this type of work. In all cases with this type of work I think the printers role is to make the images believable, but still evoking a impression.
I think if we were lucky enough to see a bunch of tri colour gums of Keith Taylor we would immediately be able to understand that though a inkjet of the same images would be more true to reality , Keith's images are an interpretation that allows the viewer to fill in all the gaps. The beauty is knowing the images are permanent and hand crafted by an exceptional collaboration of artist and printer.
What I am getting at is we accept the dramatic shift from reality with black and white, to the point the black and white image looks real to us. I think over time as more people see these types of colour applications being shown here our style of prints may indeed become vogue.
I am very excited to be doing this at this time, as everything I have worked for is coming together in this new work... I applaud everyone here striving in hand made prints.
Erik Larsen
10-Mar-2016, 06:27
Erik - every thing you are doing I like - the colour palette is quite nice and interesting.
Thanks Bob, very kind of you to say. You should have seen my first attempt, the waterfalls were blood red like the prom scene from the movie Carrie! What is your go to paper for this process?
bob carnie
10-Mar-2016, 07:05
Arches Platine- Hannamuhle Lannaquelle and CO 320 - all seem to work nice for me.
Thanks Bob, very kind of you to say. You should have seen my first attempt, the waterfalls were blood red like the prom scene from the movie Carrie! What is your go to paper for this process?
Erik Larsen
10-Mar-2016, 10:41
Arches Platine- Hannamuhle Lannaquelle and CO 320 - all seem to work nice for me.
Thanks Bob. Do you use a red, blue and yellow pigment or do you wing it according to the image and use any color you feel works for the image? In other words, do you make a straight cmy and pt/pd print then add other colors on top of that? Just curious.
bob carnie
10-Mar-2016, 11:00
I do both :
I use Blue pigment green shade for Cyan, Magenta Pigment and Yellow with the cmy negatives
On personal work that starts with a BW image and tonal sep negatives I play a lot with other colours.. to try to obtain a pleasing look.
Step one is to do a bw conversion to lighten main colour elements in the image, ie I want them to print lighter than normal in the pt pd . This allows more
of the secondary colours to print in and shine.
I am going to do a test this summer where I separate into Red Green Blue negatives and use Red Green and Blue pigment - in direct comparison to doing a CMY negative and then trying to make a good Cyan, Yellow and Magenta.
lots to try but if I want a full colour I try to use CMY over pt pd
If I want to play I use anything... tried Opaque, tried Iridescent (not good for me) pigments. A Opaque pigment with a shadow only negative does work to increase dmax.
I am also playing around with digital negatives, and different loads of pigment to gum, to dicromate, which is laborious but needed.
Thanks Bob. Do you use a red, blue and yellow pigment or do you wing it according to the image and use any color you feel works for the image? In other words, do you make a straight cmy and pt/pd print then add other colors on top of that? Just curious.
Erik Larsen
10-Mar-2016, 13:57
Thanks for the explanation Bob, it makes sense. I hadn't tried lightening the first pt/pd print but your reasons for doing so seem reasonable. So many variables to consider that it is truly hours and hours of experiments to digest them all.
Here's another not true to to life look at a dilapidated shack in Cisco Utah light painted many years ago. It was a good candidate to appreciate the amount of each pigment to apply and their affect on the final image. 8x10 print on platine. Pt/pd and cmy negatives used.
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bob carnie
10-Mar-2016, 14:18
very interesting, the colour seems to really blend well, I take it you are using registration.... what humidity level, and how long between each coat are you waiting?
I am doing a bunch next two weeks and will post some new ones after that.
Erik Larsen
10-Mar-2016, 14:36
very interesting, the colour seems to really blend well, I take it you are using registration.... what humidity level, and how long between each coat are you waiting?
I am doing a bunch next two weeks and will post some new ones after that.
Looking forward to what you show next Bob. Registration is dry mounted on hole punched aluminum. Humidity is probably in the 15-20% range here. I dry with a hair dryer and can coat and print in around five minutes. I've never considered the dry time as another variable to watch, I'm not consistent in my drying time at all really.
bob carnie
10-Mar-2016, 14:47
Wow that is a fast time, That would mean you could conceivably do the pt pd in morning and three coats in the afternoon. Are you force drying between layers and also are you using a sizing agent of any kind after the pt pd.
I think the low humidity is going to be a problem for you if you let your paper dry for much longer periods as I have seen huge problems with paper shrinking even on aluminum.
Last month it dropped to -20degree here with very low humidity and I made the mistake of coating large quantity's of one colour and printing one day and letting dry overnight then next day concentrate on the
next colour. Big f....ing mistake as the paper basically dried out and cause miss registration... Now I have really pumped up the humidity to around 45% . I am going to give a faster dry time though in humid conditions and see if I can complete more full images in one day rather than the assembly line application I tried before. We get great humidity 6 months of the year and right now it sucks.
Looking forward to what you show next Bob. Registration is dry mounted on hole punched aluminum. Humidity is probably in the 15-20% range here. I dry with a hair dryer and can coat and print in around five minutes. I've never considered the dry time as another variable to watch, I'm not consistent in my drying time at all really.
Erik Larsen
10-Mar-2016, 15:03
Humidity never gets high out here in the desert. I can do a full 4 color print in about three hours if I force dry between coats(either hair dryer or hang to dry with a fan blowing). Most of that time is waiting for the gum portion to develop out. You're in a pickle compared to me as I don't have to worry about multiple images for clients and getting an assembly line set up. It's a different mindset for sure. I size with pva after the pt/pd print which dries very fast. I've been happy with the registration so far, but I haven't done any large print in 4 color yet so I maybe am just lucky so far.
Erik, I'm witnessing your initial steps into 3-color bichromates with amazement and I have to admit considerable jealousy! I think these images are pretty stunning. I didn't even come close to that when I gave gum printing a go and I gave up on it entirely.
bob carnie
11-Mar-2016, 07:09
Koraks - don't give up its a wonderful process - I downloaded Stephen Livik notes and they are very excellent, along with Christina Anderson book you can find your way.
It seems Erik and I are working in very different conditions and as you can see both of us are getting somewhere with this process. The more testers and workers out there the better IMO.
Erik, I'm witnessing your initial steps into 3-color bichromates with amazement and I have to admit considerable jealousy! I think these images are pretty stunning. I didn't even come close to that when I gave gum printing a go and I gave up on it entirely.
bob carnie
11-Mar-2016, 07:11
I am beginning to think you are on to something, by not allowing the process to sit overnight you are effectively avoiding paper shrinkage to start .. maybe it is not a immediate shrinkage but one over hours to take effect.
Humidity never gets high out here in the desert. I can do a full 4 color print in about three hours if I force dry between coats(either hair dryer or hang to dry with a fan blowing). Most of that time is waiting for the gum portion to develop out. You're in a pickle compared to me as I don't have to worry about multiple images for clients and getting an assembly line set up. It's a different mindset for sure. I size with pva after the pt/pd print which dries very fast. I've been happy with the registration so far, but I haven't done any large print in 4 color yet so I maybe am just lucky so far.
Erik Larsen
11-Mar-2016, 15:22
Erik, I'm witnessing your initial steps into 3-color bichromates with amazement and I have to admit considerable jealousy! I think these images are pretty stunning. I didn't even come close to that when I gave gum printing a go and I gave up on it entirely.
Thanks Koraks, beginners luck I'm sure...
Thanks for the encouragement Bob, maybe I'll give it another go. I ran into many many problems in my trials. Development wouldn't work without brushing and that always caused very coarse images with ruined highlights; unassisted development basically got me nowhere even if I left the prints in the water for hours. Less exposure didn't help; it just made for a very brittle emulsion that still wouldn't develop properly and would brush away entirely if I tried that route. Registration was another issue, as was paper shrinkage. I always force dried with a hair dryer, so maybe the heat was just too much for the paper to deal with. Gesso sizing seemed to help a bit with development, but would make the image even more coarse and the highlights lift off to a greater extent. I never managed to get more than 2 layers on top of each other without the older layers sustaining damage later on in the process. Matching the negative to the emulsion proved difficult as well and neither silver nor digital negatives gave me usable results. There were so many problems that I didn't manage to make a single decent print. Another one was dmax, but I didn't try printing e.g. a base layer with van dyke or another process to augment density, so maybe that's a viable route. And the registration system I improvised with thumb tacks and tape just didn't work reliably either, so that's something I'd also need to reinvent to work for me. And I'm not even talking about measuring pigment concentrations consistently enough for reproducible results. Ah, it was a much deeper hole than any of the other processes I've tried so far, including polymer and carbon transfer!
Erik Larsen
13-Mar-2016, 19:12
Tri color gum over pt/pd. Probably could use another blue hit as the original is greener in appearance, but I kinda like it. My nephew on the little pigeon river in Tennessee.
8x10 on platine.
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Tri color gum over pt/pd. Probably could use another blue hit as the original is greener in appearance, but I kinda like it. My nephew on the little pigeon river in Tennessee.
8x10 on platine.
148228
Erik, you are on a tear! Keep it up! Love this one too!
Attempting something I'm a novice at, inspired to give it a try by seeing some of the wonderful results that Bob Carnie has shown here. This is a gum over platinum/palladium. CMY as well as a pt/pd negatives used. ...
A very enjoyable print! My first thought was of the hand-colored postcards of old!
Erik Larsen
14-Mar-2016, 05:25
Thanks guys
Andrew O'Neill
15-Mar-2016, 21:21
Gumoil print. Finally getting the hang of it. Realizing that only certain images can be printed effectively with this process. Original was captured on HP5 8x10.
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1684/25825641035_473b136596_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Fm8ak2)Gumoil print (https://flic.kr/p/Fm8ak2) by Andrew O'Neill (https://www.flickr.com/photos/62974341@N02/), on Flickr
Gumoil print. Finally getting the hang of it. Realizing that only certain images can be printed effectively with this process. Original was captured on HP5 8x10.
Nicely done!
bob carnie
20-Mar-2016, 11:45
So I just bought 20 sheets of Arches Platine. it says new improved.
I have been using it and it is good, but for some really stupid reason they package a big stupid f… king price sticker right smack dab over the arches indentation.. when you peel it off it rips away some surface and it
shows in the print.
I am cutting the paper into 4 equal 11 x15 sheets for this project and 25% of the sheets are NFG. I would like to kick the genius in the balls that decided putting a price sticker on the good side was a great idea.
Andrew O'Neill
20-Mar-2016, 12:08
I feel your rage. Same thing with my Platine.
bob carnie
20-Mar-2016, 12:12
We both should complain, I bought mine from Above Ground that deals directly with Canson who makes this paper… I am making the call tomorrow. Hearing two workers from two parts of the Country should get their attention.
I feel your rage. Same thing with my Platine.
Erik Larsen
20-Mar-2016, 12:34
I had the same experience, but I bought some from a local art store that was going out of business. 40 sheets for 1/2 price!
That stupid little bar code sticker could have been put on the back side don't you think? The coating looked different on the stickered part but it seemed to not affect the final print as far as I can tell.
bob carnie
20-Mar-2016, 12:54
The older paper had a really soft sticker that came off almost by blowing on it . this new paper the sticker really damages the surface.
to the point I will switch papers as this kind of wastage is not acceptable and on larger pieces where the image comes close to the edge the wastage would be 100% - some numb nuts is going to really lose their job over this or should,
I cannot see how this paper is viable for a user like myself in long term.
I have tried COT 320-like very much
I have tried Hanamuhle Lanaquelle - like very much
Seriously though who would put a dam sticker on art paper on the good side or even the back side its really unbelievable. If this is a factory thing then they have seriously made a mistake. At 17 dollars a sheet this
is unacceptable.
I had the same experience, but I bought some from a local art store that was going out of business. 40 sheets for 1/2 price!
That stupid little bar code sticker could have been put on the back side don't you think? The coating looked different on the stickered part but it seemed to not affect the final print as far as I can tell.
Erik Larsen
20-Mar-2016, 13:00
I'm pretty sure in my case the art store put the sticker on for the sole purpose of a bar code price. The platine from bostick and Sullivan has no sticker. If I were in your shoes I would ask for my money back or at least a 25% discount for the sheets you can't use. You are already paying a premium compared to us in the states!
bob carnie
20-Mar-2016, 13:09
I will check into this, the paper in 10 sheet packages is sealed with Canson labels so I think it happened there , which does not surprise me- I cannot see how the French would sabatouge their paper and if Bostick is not screwed up I wonder who is doing this.
I would hate to find out its my local retailer, as they are really good and this is unbelievable if its them , and I will become the bearer of bad news… At least they can't spit in my soup or fries in months to come every time I order.
I will post back.
the Canadian Dollar is really screwing me around.. You would be shocked at my costs for pt pd from Bostick getting to me in a timely manner.
I'm pretty sure in my case the art store put the sticker on for the sole purpose of a bar code price. The platine from bostick and Sullivan has no sticker. If I were in your shoes I would ask for my money back or at least a 25% discount for the sheets you can't use. You are already paying a premium compared to us in the states!
Erik Larsen
20-Mar-2016, 18:05
8x10 Gum over pt/pd on arches platine.
148587
bob carnie
21-Mar-2016, 06:56
Has anyone here tried Reveer Platinum for pt pd or gum overs???
tgtaylor
21-Mar-2016, 07:04
The Art Blick stores put the stock number in small and faint pencil at the very edge of the sheet.
Thomas
Tin Can
21-Mar-2016, 07:15
Good to know as my store does not stock Arches Plantine.
Thanks!
The Art Blick stores put the stock number in small and faint pencil at the very edge of the sheet.
Thomas
bob carnie
21-Mar-2016, 07:38
Just called my rep Above Ground.. the sticker comes from Canson.. someone asleep at the wheel I would say.
I should say this is the newest version of this paper me thinks. So there is probably ton's of other stock out there without this sticker on it like posts above.
peter schrager
21-Mar-2016, 08:13
Bob if the revere is from the factory in France have used it for platinum
And cyanotype. .it's a good paper but buy the rolls...
bob carnie
21-Mar-2016, 08:28
Whats the problem with cut sheet, my supplier has 700 sheets at an amazing price
Bob if the revere is from the factory in France have used it for platinum
And cyanotype. .it's a good paper but buy the rolls...
peter schrager
21-Mar-2016, 18:56
Nothing wrong...buy them!!
peter schrager
21-Mar-2016, 19:13
You better try first Bob ..I'm sorry I confused it with the Hershel..paper which is excellent
bob carnie
22-Mar-2016, 06:00
I am going to give it a try, the price is really quite good.
You better try first Bob ..I'm sorry I confused it with the Hershel..paper which is excellent
peter schrager
22-Mar-2016, 06:04
I spent some time reviewing that paper and it was discontinued for various reasons...you know that hahnemuhle is releasing a new platinum paper too
bob carnie
22-Mar-2016, 09:10
Yes I will give that a try at some point.
700 sheets 20 x30 will allow me to go through a lot of prints . For my own work this would constitute a tremendous saving that well exceeds $7000
I spent some time reviewing that paper and it was discontinued for various reasons...you know that hahnemuhle is releasing a new platinum paper too
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