PDA

View Full Version : You haven't really worked on a Graphic until...



toolbox
20-Feb-2014, 08:34
You watch helplessly as the little balls and spacers from the rangefinder tube go rolling off your work bench :mad:. I even took the cam out to take any pressure off them (insert eyeroll here). Still not sure what happened...they came spouting out of the thing like water from a drinking fountain.
As a side note, I think Graflex switched from balls and spacers to nothing but balls at some point...anybody know why? I'd guess they decided the spacers weren't necessary...
Also discovered that the best way to put the balls and spacers back into the tube is with a pair of locking forceps. One. At. A. Time.
A very frustrating experience, but I guess next time I'll try and get the plunger out a little more carefully lol. The reason I was digging around in there in the first place was the RF arm was over riding the cam at infinity...it was actually slipping off the end of the cam. I'm not sure how, but it appears there was an extra ball in the tube, so it was pushing the cam over too far. Since I lost one somewhere on the floor, it all worked out fine...with the tube minus one ball, the cam lined up perfectly with the end of the arm. Anybody else ever see this? So strange...

Bill_1856
20-Feb-2014, 09:01
LOL!!! Been there done that. Funny, funny, funny. (Love your so-accurate description: One. At. A. Time.)

W K Longcor
20-Feb-2014, 12:27
From what you say -- it sounds like you found ALL the little parts and put it back together. How did you manage this? Whenever I drop something like this -- even a single tiny screw -- it bounces off the work table and somewhere between table edge and floor it vaporizes and is never found again!

Bill_1856
20-Feb-2014, 12:50
From what you say -- it sounds like you found ALL the little parts and put it back together. How did you manage this? Whenever I drop something like this -- even a single tiny screw -- it bounces off the work table and somewhere between table edge and floor it vaporizes and is never found again!
I discovered (after some 10 years of bouncing screws and springs) that the most important use for a deep 16x20 tray wasn't for washing prints, but for providing a work area for camera repair.

Jim Jones
20-Feb-2014, 16:15
Spreading a thin cloth over the workbench keeps small parts from bouncing and rolling when dropped.

Drew Bedo
21-Feb-2014, 06:49
Ever see what a watch maker or jeweler works over?

Vick Ko
21-Feb-2014, 07:20
hmmm, makes me wonder how the assembly staff did it. Can't imagine them doing it, one ball and one spacer at a time.

W K Longcor
21-Feb-2014, 18:06
Ever see what a watch maker or jeweler works over?

I owned a,watchmakers bench at one time. In spite of the "catch net" I was still able to bounce small parts into the great unknown. I always figured in was inborn "clutz" factor.

dsphotog
22-Feb-2014, 08:47
It seems tiny bits always land into shag carpet.

photonsoup
22-Feb-2014, 13:56
It's to bad you didn't give up in frustration, I need a plunger, cap and retainer.......

My crown came missing all these parts, I got some 2.5mm ball bearings from amazon which seem to work well. I just have not come up with a suitable plunger and retainer. I've loaded mine up with ball bearing many times only to have them escape everywhere when my latest redneck engineering attempt failed. Since I have lots of extras I'm not to concerned if a few are MIA.

I did talk to Fred Lustig (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?99463-Speed-Graphic&p=987197#post987197) about this any he was pretty adamant that you had to use both balls and spacers to make it work properly

Vincent Pidone
22-Feb-2014, 19:04
I'm not sure if this will help for this particular use, but a trick that I learned long ago is to use a tiny bit of grease (in the screw slot, or wherever) to get the item that you are trying to replace to stick to the tool that you are using to inset it. Works great for Philips screws, less well for straight slots, and shaky, but better than nothing for tiny (non-magnetic) balls. Also, cultivate the habit of following the dropped item with your eyes. Don't stare at where it came from in despair, watch where it's going. (OK, this won't help much if you drop a bunch of stuff at once. See the above post on alternate use of a 16x20 tray.)

toolbox
24-Feb-2014, 16:42
Glad to hear I'm not alone lol. I have an old bench I set up for tinkering with camera stuff...on the work surface I have a white sheet of poster board. I've found it makes it easier to find small bits, and reflects the light to make it easier to see what I'm working on (and I've learned that there's almost no such thing as too much light). When it gets too beat up I just flip it over. When that side gets nasty it gets replaced. Keeps grease and things off the actual bench as well. Only down side is...it's pretty smooth and little rolley things like to take off in all directions :(. I used to do this stuff on my kitchen table...somewhere under the cabinets I'm sure there's all sorts of missing screws and springs and whatnot. There's just nothing quite like that sinking feeling you get when that microscopic spring you're trying to install goes airborne to join all the missing socks and car keys that disappear, never to be seen again...

macandal
5-May-2014, 10:25
You watch helplessly as the little balls and spacers from the rangefinder tube go rolling off your work bench :mad:. I even took the cam out to take any pressure off them (insert eyeroll here). Still not sure what happened...they came spouting out of the thing like water from a drinking fountain.Ok. I'm sorry for reviving a somewhat dead thread, but this just happened to me.

I just got a Crown Graphic this past Saturday. As I was extending the bed where the camera rests, the tube must have gotten stuck to something and it came loose. The bearings came out. I was doing this in my bed so I caught them all (I hope). As I'm reading here now, this tube has something to do with the rangefinder. So, is this fixable? Will the rangefinder work once it's fixed (I bought it because it had a working rangefinder)? Is it difficult to fix? How do I fix it?

Thanks.

Dan Fromm
5-May-2014, 11:34
There's a repair manual on http://www.southbristolviews.com/

If you need more help, ask on www.graflex.org

toolbox
6-May-2014, 06:45
Ok. I'm sorry for reviving a somewhat dead thread, but this just happened to me.

I just got a Crown Graphic this past Saturday. As I was extending the bed where the camera rests, the tube must have gotten stuck to something and it came loose. The bearings came out. I was doing this in my bed so I caught them all (I hope). As I'm reading here now, this tube has something to do with the rangefinder. So, is this fixable? Will the rangefinder work once it's fixed (I bought it because it had a working rangefinder)? Is it difficult to fix? How do I fix it?

Thanks.

Sorry to hear about your accidental "initiation" into the Graflex Repair Club... Yes, it's definitely repairable. From what I've seen, some cameras have all balls in the RF tube, some have balls and spacers. If you have the latter, they alternate as you put them in the tube. The plunger cap is a friction fit on the tube...it should stick on there tight unless it has a crack or something. To fix it, all you have to do is put the balls back in the tube and put the cap back on. Here's a tip though--take the RF cam out first, it will take (most) of the pressure off the other end of the tube. The cam is hidden under a little door at the top of the camera...it's the shiny wedge shaped thing. The RF arm rests on it. It should have two little dimples that are there for you to hook your fingernail on to pull it out. Anyway, put all the stuff back in the tube, put the cap on, and re-insert the RF cam. You'll know if you got them all back in if you rack the focus all the way back and look at the cam...the RF arm should be right at the edge of the cam. If it's not, you're probably missing a ball or two, and it won't focus to infinity. If that happens you can try adjusting the arm back that actuates the plunger (if it has screws to loosen...some are staked in) back to make up the difference. It's better to replace the missing balls though.

Leigh
6-May-2014, 11:27
I think Graflex switched from balls and spacers to nothing but balls at some point...anybody know why?
Critical point...

The balls are two different diameters (only a very small difference), alternating large and small in the tube.

If you draw a ball drive (three balls will suffice), you'll see that when the first one rotates clockwise, the next rotates counter-clockwise, and the third rotates clockwise like the first.

Using spacers introduces friction and reduces efficiency, deriving no benefit from the extra parts.

Using alternating balls reduces friction and increases the efficiency significantly.

- Leigh

macandal
31-Jul-2014, 17:36
Sorry to hear about your accidental "initiation" into the Graflex Repair Club... Yes, it's definitely repairable...

Ok, I tried and failed.

Anyone here in San Francisco who wants to help me? I'll buy you lunch.

Thanks.

macandal
31-Jul-2014, 17:42
This is what came out of the tube: balls, spacers, a metal rod, and the (black) cap.119237

Michael Cienfuegos
31-Jul-2014, 19:04
This is what came out of the tube: balls, spacers, a metal rod, and the (black) cap.119237

Talk to "Shutterfinger" on APUG, aka PSS445 on Graflex.org. He should be able to help, he lives in the Monterey area, I think.



m

macandal
11-Aug-2014, 12:07
Talk to "Shutterfinger" ...I talked to him and followed his instructions, however, I think I'm a few balls/spacers short. The rangefinder won't work and now I need extra ball/spacers. I also messed up the part called "hinge yoke" and need that too. Where can I get these parts? I posted a WTB ad on these forums (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?115624-WTB-4x5-Crown-Graphic-FOR-PARTS), looking for a camera for parts or the parts themselves. If any of you could help, it'll be much appreciated.

Thanks.

Jac@stafford.net
11-Aug-2014, 12:27
It seems tiny bits always land into shag carpet.

A magnetic sweeper is very handy.
.

Michael Cienfuegos
11-Aug-2014, 18:02
I talked to him and followed his instructions, however, I think I'm a few balls/spacers short. The rangefinder won't work and now I need extra ball/spacers. I also messed up the part called "hinge yoke" and need that too. Where can I get these parts? I posted a WTB ad on these forums (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?115624-WTB-4x5-Crown-Graphic-FOR-PARTS), looking for a camera for parts or the parts themselves. If any of you could help, it'll be much appreciated.

Thanks.

Shutterfinger might be willing to fix it for you. You have to ask him. I have three 4x5 Speeds, the one with that rangefinder (Top mounted RF) doesn't have the right cam for the lens I'm using, so I leave it alone, I've heard of too many horror stories such as your. I just use the GG for focusing.

Good luck. :)

m

Jim Andrada
20-Aug-2014, 20:07
The way my college band sang it, it was Illegitimum non Carborundum. Same basic meaning. I'm not about to post the start of the second verse...because it's verse - much verse. (Sorry)

Michael Cienfuegos
21-Aug-2014, 12:44
The way my college band sang it, it was Illegitimum non Carborundum. Same basic meaning. I'm not about to post the start of the second verse...because it's verse - much verse. (Sorry)

But wonderful verse indeed! :)

m