Your cocktail host asks, "What is Large Format?" & your reply is... [Archive]

Heroique

11-Jan-2014, 16:47

It's Saturday evening – you're at an enjoyable cocktail party.

It's a private home (not a bar), a civilized crowd (not too many), still early (not too late), tasteful music (probably late-1950's Miles Davis), and excellent drinks (no Budweiser).

Call it a place of intelligence, wit, and brevity. :D

"Someone just told me you're a large format photographer," the friendly host remarks. (That means nearby guests are now turning their ears in your direction, and there's a new silence.) "Can you explain what 'large format' means?" the host asks.

What would you say? And how long would it take you to say it?

In these times, would you start with some apologetic humor, or a few simple facts?

Please share your first few remarks – and help the rest of us prepare for such a critical moment. ;^)

Ari

11-Jan-2014, 16:53

Heroique, it appears you lead a very different life than I do.

Heroique

11-Jan-2014, 17:03

This has actually happened, and lucky me, there was an AA print on the wall to help out.

But I think my enthusiasm got the best of me, and I went on too long...

Hope I do better "next time"!

Mark Sawyer

11-Jan-2014, 17:18

Philosophically, I'd explain it as a gourmet approach to photography in a fast-food world. The large format photographer tends to spend more time, money, and effort making fewer photographs, and often enjoys the history, process, equipment, and of course, the outcome. It is, simply, a different approach.

Technically, I suppose I could explain a little about the "format size that defines this photography, but that seems simplistic.

And if they proffered that large format seemed a useless anachronism in the digital world, I'd have a few more of those excellent cocktails and vomit on their shoes.

Vaughn

11-Jan-2014, 17:29

I would say, "I am sorry, but modesty and social etiquette prevents me from discussing this in a mixed group."

Peter Lewin

11-Jan-2014, 17:44

"One of those old cameras you see in Western movies where the photographer puts his head under a dark cloth."

If they ask "Why do you use it?" then it becomes a longer discussion.

Heroique

11-Jan-2014, 17:45

I would say, "I am sorry, but modesty and social etiquette prevents me from discussing this in a mixed group."

Sounds like a tactful way to avoid launching into Scheimpflug positions!

I'd probably start with film size, and see if further interest justified a (very) brief mention of perspective control. (Perhaps a quick example about keeping tall trees straight.)

I think Peter's "under the darkcloth" is a very helpful image, and Mark's strategy about "more time/fewer photos" would win some appreciation for our cause.

gleaf

11-Jan-2014, 17:59

Loved the fellow I worked with who's first answer to a technical question was always the simple question...
"Is it bigger than a bread box"... no matte if your answer was yes or no he would nod sagely and
say he knew what you were talking about then.

Hmm new thread to avoid a hi jacking.

Patrick13

11-Jan-2014, 18:24

jnantz

11-Jan-2014, 18:36

"One of those old cameras you see in Western movies where the photographer puts his head under a dark cloth."

If they ask "Why do you use it?" then it becomes a longer discussion.

pretty much what i would say .. as well as instead of using rolls of film like a 35mm camera it makes negatives
" this big " ( making a large rectangle with my hands )

C_Remington

11-Jan-2014, 20:11

4x5 or larger film.

Tin Can

11-Jan-2014, 20:48

Depends upon my location, where I live, I tell them it is like recording music with analog equipment, like Steve Albini, who is a very well known in these parts for only using 2 inch tape to record with. Then I ask them, do you know how to set the points on your cafe racer motorcycle? And they brightly say, sure it's easy. Then I go talk to the best looking woman in the place.

MIke Sherck

11-Jan-2014, 20:55

I'd say that it's photography with improbably large sheets of film and cameras which allow me to get the picture the way I want it.

This is probably why I don't get asked to parties where Miles Davis is played. ;)

Mike

StoneNYC

11-Jan-2014, 21:33

"One of those old cameras you see in Western movies where the photographer puts his head under a dark cloth."

If they ask "Why do you use it?" then it becomes a longer discussion.

Exactly that, what I always say.

ImSoNegative

11-Jan-2014, 22:10

"One of those old cameras you see in Western movies where the photographer puts his head under a dark cloth."

If they ask "Why do you use it?" then it becomes a longer discussion.

LMAO, this is what I say all the time haha

cowanw

12-Jan-2014, 09:01

At a cocktail party, the answer is anything bigger than 6.41 inches

Further explanation in the form of (4 squared +5 squared = answer squared) should not be given.

Cletus

12-Jan-2014, 09:16

Mark, this is definitely the most eloquent and erudite explanation to this interesting question. If you wouldn't mind, I'd like to quote you word for word (including the vomiting on the shoes part!) should I ever find myself in the situation Heroique describes. Very nicely put!

Philosophically, I'd explain it as a gourmet approach to photography in a fast-food world. The large format photographer tends to spend more time, money, and effort making fewer photographs, and often enjoys the history, process, equipment, and of course, the outcome. It is, simply, a different approach.

Technically, I suppose I could explain a little about the "format size that defines this photography, but that seems simplistic.

And if they proffered that large format seemed a useless anachronism in the digital world, I'd have a few more of those excellent cocktails and vomit on their shoes.

Jody_S

12-Jan-2014, 09:38

I have started explaining that I use pre- WWI cameras and methods, and as to 'why', that it is because I collect & restore antique cameras and lenses. It's getting harder to make the argument along the lines of image quality, especially if they have seen my images.

Bruce Watson

12-Jan-2014, 10:23

What would you say? And how long would it take you to say it?

This actually happened to me once. I could tell that the question was just polite, not real interest. So I dumbed it way down and kept it way short. Something along the lines of:

"You remember back in school when your class covered the US westward expansion? There's always this picture of a photographer up on a ledge overlooking a huge valley. All you can remember of the camera is that accordion-looking bellows and the tripod. Sometimes the photographer has his head and part of the camera covered by a dark cloth while he's working. Remember that? That's me."

Mark Sawyer

12-Jan-2014, 10:53

Mark, this is definitely the most eloquent and erudite explanation to this interesting question. If you wouldn't mind, I'd like to quote you word for word...

Go ahead, Cletus! And it sounds even more eloquent if you have a few highballs first and slur your words. :)

Tin Can

12-Jan-2014, 11:13

+1

I have started explaining that I use pre- WWI cameras and methods, and as to 'why', that it is because I collect & restore antique cameras and lenses. It's getting harder to make the argument along the lines of image quality, especially if they have seen my images.

Jerry Bodine

12-Jan-2014, 11:20

At a cocktail party, the answer is anything bigger than 6.41 inches

Further explanation in the form of (4 squared +5 squared = answer squared) should not be given.

Agreed. Reference to the Pythagorean Theorem should not be given. However, it's actually equal to or greater than 6.403. :)

Michael E

12-Jan-2014, 13:51

My short answer would be that my cameras are made of wood. Actually, if somebody reduced my profession to the technical aspect ("large format photographer"), I would make sure that my answer was short.

Michael

cowanw

12-Jan-2014, 15:01

Agreed. Reference to the Pythagorean Theorem should not be given. However, it's actually equal to or greater than 6.403. :)

It's a cocktail party. I dumbed it down.

goamules

12-Jan-2014, 15:28

I'd hold up my hands about 8x10" wide, then say,
"I shoot a negative this big. If you snipped a 1 inch square off a corner with scissors, that's the negative size of 35mm cameras, or digital sensors. Mine is that much better."
And leave it to them to think about.

Bruce Watson

12-Jan-2014, 15:35

At a cocktail party, the answer is anything bigger than 6.41 inches.

Square inches? You're talking area, right?

cowanw

12-Jan-2014, 16:48

No, length of course
Corner to corner.

Bruce Barlow

12-Jan-2014, 17:06

A quick, simple answer: "I use a camera that uses film that is 4x5 inches," and hold my two hands that size.

99% of people will change the subject. I call it "One and Done." At most, they'll ask one follow-up and be "Two and through."

I just made a 39,583 mile trip on the backroads of America. I'm like the Dos Equis guy - the Most Interesting Man in the World, and of maybe 75 people I've spoken to at social occasions, all but four have been one- or two-question people. Steinbeck wrote in "Travels with Charley" that he experienced the same thing, because everyone wanted to do what he and I did.

I don't know that everyone wants to do LF, but I chalk it up to a lack of genuine curiosity, I guess.

If the questioner is an attractive lady, I might find the courage to ask to make portraits...

Tin Can

12-Jan-2014, 17:40

+1

A quick, simple answer: "I use a camera that uses film that is 4x5 inches," and hold my two hands that size.

99% of people will change the subject. I call it "One and Done." At most, they'll ask one follow-up and be "Two and through."

I just made a 39,583 mile trip on the backroads of America. I'm like the Dos Equis guy - the Most Interesting Man in the World, and of maybe 75 people I've spoken to at social occasions, all but four have been one- or two-question people. Steinbeck wrote in "Travels with Charley" that he experienced the same thing, because everyone wanted to do what he and I did.

I don't know that everyone wants to do LF, but I chalk it up to a lack of genuine curiosity, I guess.

If the questioner is an attractive lady, I might find the courage to ask to make portraits...

Peter Collins

12-Jan-2014, 18:05

Bruce Watson has it right:

"You remember back in school when your class covered the US westward expansion? There's always this picture of a photographer up on a ledge overlooking a huge valley. All you can remember of the camera is that accordion-looking bellows and the tripod. Sometimes the photographer has his head and part of the camera covered by a dark cloth while he's working. Remember that? That's me."

In the same vein, I offer:

Many people know of Ansel Adams, and I use that as a basis for saying, "You know any photographs by Ansel Adams? He got them by using large film, some almost the size of copier paper. That's large format, and the reason for it is the quality and the art that's possible.

Drew Bedo

12-Jan-2014, 19:05

Roll audio File-1: " Its like one of those old-time cameras where the guy sticks his head under a talbe-cloth"

After that, if there is any genuine interest we can talk more.

If the party is well along someone will make a double entendre while I make hand jestures to show the film size. . . .but you have classy friends . . .right?

Darin Boville

12-Jan-2014, 21:37

"It's a large camera, old fashioned in a way, used best to photograph beautiful landscapes and beautiful women." Capture her eyes with yours while you say this.

--Darin

Jim Galli

12-Jan-2014, 22:03

Your cocktail host asks, "What is Large Format?" & your reply is...

"Have you read; The Bridges of Madison County?"

"Yes."

"Same thing, bigger camera."

Per Madsen

13-Jan-2014, 00:17

It is the photographic version of slow food.

Daniel Stone

13-Jan-2014, 00:57

80% of the time, it's just the L-shaped two hand gesture showing a 5x7" size frame, and a 1-sentence explanation that its a sheet, not a roll, of film.

The remaining 20% of the time(this is generally the pretty ladies here, funny enough how many of them actually show interest) I will talk a bit more, but only if they keep asking questions or show interest past the initial 1st question.

giuliosteva

13-Jan-2014, 02:10

I think it depends on how many drinks are gone :)
Anyway the answer is roughly "another way to capture images"

rdenney

13-Jan-2014, 02:56

My photography is no more likely to resemble Ansel Adams than my tuba playing will resemble Miles Davis. When people ask me what a tuba is, I don't make reference to Miles, even if that's what's playing. I just hold my hands about three or four feet apart and say, "It's this big and makes fart sounds." Referencing Miles would confuse the issue, but if they bring up his trumpet playing, I'll say it's four times as long and much wider, operated by a person with much less skill.

The only difference in my answer on large-format photography is that I hold my hands to make a 4x5" rectangle and if they reference Adams, my camera is half as big. The much less skill part still gets mentioned. Oh, and I make fart pictures.

If they ask me why, my standard answer is the truth: I have no idea.

Rick "sometimes summarized as insanity" Denney

Emmanuel BIGLER

13-Jan-2014, 03:20

Hello from France.

I'm following this discussion with high interest, and as a Frenchman I cannot but totally agree with Mark Sawyer (a gourmet approach to photography) or with Per Madsen (the photographic version of slow food).

Mentioning technical specifications of LF film we use is good, but the problem is that fewer and fewer people even know what film is. In France, large format cameras and related film techniques were unknown to amateur photographers at the end of the XX-st century. So, at least in France in 2014, before explaining what a 4x5" sheet of film is, you'd have to explain what is film ;)
(well, the situation is not exactly like this, but when I use a modern wooden tripod, some people think that I have found my grandfather's tripod in the attic!)

Now regarding the gourmets' approach.
When we started our French MF+LF forum at the beginning of this century (http://www.galerie-photo.info), silicon image detectors did not yet have the hegemonic position they have today.

Hence the comparison we often mentioned was between our (alleged, but of course greatly exaggerated) daily consumption of un coup d'rouge ou un coup d'blanc, compared to very special occasions when we appreciate some Sauternes, Champagne or Grand Bordeaux.
Nowadays, 35 mm film, the equivalent at the time of our daily allotment of un coup d'rouge: un p'tit bordeaux has been replaced by silicon & digital post-processing, but Sauternes, Champagne and Grand Bordeaux (here in the Jura, a Château-Châlon is what we drink on very special occasions) are still our equivalent to Large Format photography.

--

Now regarding Sir Winston's legendary misogyny ... (http://thinkexist.com/quotation/-you_are_drunk_sir_winston-you_are_disgustingly/264030.html)

.. we have to admit that gender balance is not yet achieved in our virtual or real-world Large Format Photographic activities.
However, we try to do our best in order to improve on this aspect.
At our last Large Format Conference in Graçay (France) in October 2013 (http://www.galerie-photo.info/forumgp/read.php?5,104,page=1), focused on alternative photo-chemical processes, 2 out of 5 formal presentations on Saturday were made by female LF photographers. And on Sunday morning, dedicated to demonstrations of alternative processes, friendly exhibitions of portfolios and informal exchanges, I would say that about 20% of participants were female. Total number of attendants this week-end (Oct. 12-13, 2013) was about 150.

Rollinhofuji

13-Jan-2014, 03:26

It is the photographic version of slow food.

You brought it to the point, Per! I will adopt this, of course risking that people might ask what slow food is...

I probably would say that it is a big camera for big guys who love to carry 20-30 pounds of equipment, and make approximately 2-3 images per hour.

soeren

13-Jan-2014, 04:49

It is the photographic version of slow food.

So alternative processes is the the Photographic version of NOMA? :D
Nicely put BTW
Best regards

Camillou

13-Jan-2014, 13:09

I'm like the Dos Equis guy - the Most Interesting Man in the World, and of maybe 75 people I've spoken to at social occasions, all but four have been one- or two-question people.

108226

DrTang

13-Jan-2014, 13:22

Big

Big Camera
Big Lens
Big Film
Big Hassle

StoneNYC

13-Jan-2014, 15:28

108226

Pretty sure the most interesting man in the world is shooting chromes ;)

Kodachrome25

13-Jan-2014, 16:25

If it were me, I would just downplay it and say I am a photographer, large format is only one of the tools I use.

I find it kind of odd that those who really go nutso in using LF, especially the enthusiast variety feel they have to label them selves a "Large Format Photographer" as if it somehow instantaneously makes for a better photograph.

You don't hear people referring to them selves as Medium or Small format photographers, I use all three and refer to my self as a photographer.

Ken Lee

13-Jan-2014, 16:50

You don't hear people referring to them selves as Medium or Small format photographers

... perhaps with good reason :cool:

John Olsen

13-Jan-2014, 19:09

StoneNYC

14-Jan-2014, 00:24

... perhaps with good reason :cool:

I think Dan is saying he's a grower not a shower... ;)

Doremus Scudder

14-Jan-2014, 05:32

Winston Churchill: "Large format is merely my way of keeping as much gear between me and you as possible, madam."

Ernest Hemingway: "Large format is wrestling with a primal beast, bending it to your will to tear images screaming from its bowels."

Plato: "You are under a dark cloth hiding from sight all but a sheet ground glass, on the other side is a lens to capture the fiery visions of reality. All you see are shadows of what is on the other side and never reality itself."

Mark Twain: "Go to 35mm for the climate, go to large format for the company."

Me: "I'm obviously over-compensating for something."

Depends on the crowd :cool:

Absolutely hilarious! You made my day, Patrick! I'm still chuckling... Sometimes I really feel like I'm tearing images screaming from the bowels of a primal beast...

And, since I'm here, I'll give my more boring, less imaginative response.

Frankly, the film size has very little to do with why I shoot large format; I like/need the perspective controls. So, I usually begin with:
"I use an old-fashioned camera like they used in the 19th century, with a bellows and large film. This allows me to control perspective and has better resolution than smaller film." This usually elicits a, "do they still make those?" and a couple of images from Google on my cell phone of modern LF cameras.

This is usually all it takes to shut everyone up at a cocktail party... While photographing, however, with the camera set up for passers-by to see, it is a different story. I usually have a sheet of scrap film to show people, and can demonstrate the movements and let them look at the ground glass. This gets a lot more interest.

Best,

Doremus

hiend61

17-Jan-2014, 15:48

Large format is to photography what a nice fountain pen to writing, or in other words the difference between word processing and calligraphy.
Lately I avoid any technical explanation, even the simplest one, I don´t like the extremely surprised face expressions.

Drew Wiley

17-Jan-2014, 16:44

Drew Wiley

17-Jan-2014, 16:45

... I obviously meant "large format" not "large forum" (Freudian slip). But I never go to cocktail parties anyway. In much of this county, that refers to two roosters
slashing each other.

hiend61

18-Jan-2014, 18:10

The term itself has been ruined. A simple web search proves that. Everybody thinks that Large Forum means taking a cell phone shot and printing it on six-foot wide
inkjet paper. It a lot easier for them simply to encounter you under the darkcloth with a "whhh thhhh ?"

You're absolutely right. The first time I announced a large format workshop (In collaboration with the leading Spain photo seller, Fotocasion) I had a lot of mails asking me for the brand of the inkjet printer, the maximum size of the copies, types of paper used and so on. I could not believe it, but I was severely worried about if the problem was from syntax or with the absolute ignorance about LF from the people who red the workshop ad.

tamimjamshed

20-Jan-2014, 18:30

StoneNYC

20-Jan-2014, 18:56

Hi all,

I am new here and learning a lot!!

I am planning to buy a large format camera but so much variety made me crazy!

Hope some day I will get there and buy a camera.

thanks
Tamim. (http://tamimjamshed.com/)

I agree I had a hard time, I settled on a used toyo45a on eBay, wait for one around $600-$700 or so.

Having looked back, I'm glad I did, but thinking of selling it for either a larger format or a new Chamonix just because I'm hooked!!! They are awesome!

sun of sand

20-Jan-2014, 20:47

It's Saturday evening – you're at an enjoyable cocktail party.

It's a private home (not a bar), a civilized crowd (not too many), still early (not too late), tasteful music (probably late-1950's Miles Davis), and excellent drinks (no Budweiser).

Call it a place of intelligence, wit, and brevity.

I have no Ahole friends so this party doesn't fit
but

I'd probably start with

OK
This is the size of 35mm film frame
THIS is the size of large format 4x5
THHHHHIIIIIIIISSSS
is the size of 8x10 large format

bigger negative the more detail

then I'd be like
You could blow this up to the size of that wall and it wouldn't look like shit

crap I'm just like jnanian

Laurent L

12-Feb-2014, 07:29

When I have to explain some people why I use large format cameras, I avoid talking about the amount of informations on the negative or positive, seeking megabytes shall not be our quest...

Therefore, to make people understand why large format photography keeps having an interest even nowadays, I tell them that this technic is about control and pleasure.

Large format photography is the only technic that allows you to almost completly control and compose your photo even before taking the shot, it takes time, give pleasure and creates a strong link between you and your subject that you have watched and prepared for this feast of the eyes.

smithdoor

21-Feb-2014, 06:52

I just say
I use large format film for high quality prints and more control

I found over year keep it simple.
Some times they will say why not just use digital camera My response is
I do not get quality from digital

30 year ago more new about film and the larger the size the better the print will be. Today most that take photos do not even print the photo, just upload to some web site like facebook.

Dave

rdenney

22-Feb-2014, 09:48

StoneNYC

22-Feb-2014, 09:56

If I get the question "why not use digital?", my response is that I can't afford the digital equipment that gives me the same control and quality for some pictures, assuming it exists. Plus, my traditional use of LF is like an old friend. That way, I don't find myself in a technical argument with an Uncle Harry who just spent a boatload on a DSLR.

Rick "arguing about it is a lose-lose scenario" Denney

Ugh, I know that one, my aunt was convinced her sons full frame digital could get more detail than my 4x5 and no matter how I tried to explain it, her response was "oh no, his camera was thousands of dollars I highly doubt it could make better images" even explaining the difference in surface area between 35mm size digital sensor, compared to 4x5 she keeps saying that the physical size of the camera was as big, but couldn't understand that the imaging area was smaller.

Your way works better...

ROL

22-Feb-2014, 10:31

What would you say?

my reply: I need another cocktail.

giuliosteva

22-Feb-2014, 13:25

my reply: I need another cocktail.

Straight to the next one! ;)

DannL

22-Feb-2014, 13:50

. . . . . "Someone just told me you're a large format photographer," the friendly host remarks. (That means nearby guests are now turning their ears in your direction, and there's a new silence.) "Can you explain what 'large format' means?" the host asks. . . .

I find the scenario as described, very unrealistic. Nobody would ever as me a question like that. But anyhoo, if someone asked me about my view cameras and what it was all about, I would have to say . . . "Remember in the old movies where the photographers stood behind a big wooden camera and pulled that cloth over their head? That's exactly what I like to do."

nede

3-Mar-2014, 10:55

Big camera, big calm!

Tin Can

3-Mar-2014, 10:59

+1

I do it for calm.

Big camera, big calm!

John Kasaian

4-Mar-2014, 07:37

my reply: I need another cocktail.
"It doesn't pay very well" (while stuffing my pockets with appetizers :rolleyes:)

Brian C. Miller

4-Mar-2014, 21:28

"Can you explain what 'large format' means?"

(Of course I have to answer this sober. I don't drink.)
You've seen 35mm film, right? A negative about this by this? Well, large format is about 20 times as big, with all of that detail. It's like comparing Bambi to Godzilla. It's slow, so you have time to think about what you are doing. So when you're using it, it's like a bicycle compared to a Maserati. But when I get the film processed, then the large format is the Maserati, and the 35mm is the bicycle.

(Another thing to do is if you know you might be asked that question, have a little light box, a chrome, and a loupe. That really makes people's eyes bug out.)

dodphotography

5-Apr-2014, 08:53

It's this form art that is like a vacuum machine attached to my wallet

lecarp

5-Apr-2014, 09:37

I would gladly except a deposit to sign them up for my workshop where all their questions would be answered.

bobwysiwyg

5-Apr-2014, 16:30

It's this form art that is like a vacuum machine attached to my wallet

:) Best answer yet.

Alan Gales

5-Apr-2014, 20:23

So it's sill early with not a lot of people. There are excellent drinks but no Budweiser left.

Who's the idiot that didn't buy enough Bud?

Peter Mounier

6-Apr-2014, 08:49

So it's sill early with not a lot of people. There are excellent drinks but no Budweiser left.

Who's the idiot that didn't buy enough Bud?

That might be me. I live by the (Arrogant Bastard Ale's) credo "Fizzy yellow beer is for wussies".

StoneNYC

6-Apr-2014, 08:58

That might be me. I live by the (Arrogant Bastard Ale's) credo "Fizzy yellow beer is for wussies".

+1

Alan Gales

6-Apr-2014, 09:45

That might be me. I live by the (Arrogant Bastard Ale's) credo "Fizzy yellow beer is for wussies".

I drink Busch myself but I do like Bud and Bud Light. I also like Ale's and craft beers, etc.

It's all good to me. ;)

Mark Sawyer

6-Apr-2014, 09:46

+1

+2

I always enjoyed the artist's statement on the back of the Arrogant Bastard bottles. Besides, having an Arrogant Bastard Ale is an excellent excuse to make the Arrogant Bastard toast: "Here's to me!"

Alan Gales

6-Apr-2014, 11:03

+1

Aren't you too young to be drinking beer? :confused:

StoneNYC

6-Apr-2014, 11:45

Aren't you too young to be drinking beer? :confused:

I drink from the vines if the earth, not the seeds...

And (31)

Winger

6-Apr-2014, 12:03

That might be me. I live by the (Arrogant Bastard Ale's) credo "Fizzy yellow beer is for wussies".

+1, though mine is more "If I can see through it, it's not beer." I'm also a fan of the Monty Python joke about sex in a canoe and American beer.
And I usually drink wine instead.

As to the original question - I'd probably say something about the camera being the type that you have a dark cloth over your head to see through to focus and compose. And that it costs more than it pays (for most, anyway).