Drying Fiber papper without curling

[ShannonG]

Im sure this has been asked before ,sorry imma bad searcher. Currently i squeegee my prints on a sheet of glass ,back side first then front side,then place them face down on my home made screen racks.After a day or so of drying ,(with edges curled i flatten them between 2 sheets of foam core with waits on them (usually books)for 4 or 5 days.this system seems to work ok,and they still mat up fine,but is there a better way ?. I do have a fiber print dryer,but dont like the curve it gives to the prints,so i just use it for test strips.So if you Fiber printers can give me some tips on how to dry the flattest fiber print,that would be much appreciated. thanks

[Pete Watkins]

Once the print has been hung up to dry overnight I flatten it in my hot mounting press, just for a few minutes.
Pete.

[ShannonG]

Pete,,so you think a dry mount press works best?I dont have one ,should consider buying one?Ive needed one for a long time now,but until i get one is there other ways to get a perfectly flat fiber print?After being on my screen rack should i put them on my dryer (the curved type with the canvas) thanks for your reply

[rwhb1]

I purchased secondhand dry mount press from Ebay, works fine, but others on here suggest use of glassine sheet envelops to protect print while pressing.

Russ

[Pete Watkins]

The dry mount press is the best that I've tried but there could be better methods.
Pete.

[Colin Robertson]

Print with a slightly wider border than you want to end up with.
Drain your wet prints them put them on a freshly cleaned window. Take gummed paper tape (art shop) and stick the prints down around their edges. They will dry beautifully flat. Slice tape to release, trim print edges.
You might find over a day or so the print takes a very faint curl (something to do with temperature, I suspect. Windows are cold) but it's insignificant, and easily cured by a couple of days under a weight if it annoys you. I'm currently making the flattest fibre prints I've ever managed.

[Robert Bowring]

Dry mounting press and cool under some weight.

[Tin Can]

This is a good idea!

Thanks!





Print with a slightly wider border than you want to end up with.
Drain your wet prints them put them on a freshly cleaned window. Take gummed paper tape (art shop) and stick the prints down around their edges. They will dry beautifully flat. Slice tape to release, trim print edges.
You might find over a day or so the print takes a very faint curl (something to do with temperature, I suspect. Windows are cold) but it's insignificant, and easily cured by a couple of days under a weight if it annoys you. I'm currently making the flattest fibre prints I've ever managed.

[ShannonG]

Thanks for the advice and great ideas.Today ,instead of putting them on the drying screens i dried them on my print dryer, (the heated type with the wrap around canvas)then put them under some wait. Will check on them in the morning.The Question is if my print dryer is hot enough, and that the slight curve in it still allows the prints to go flat after they have been under wait for a day or 2..If this doesn't work then i guess im on the look out for a 16X20 dry mount press. Ill post it on the wanted/for sale board. Thanks again for your help.
Shannon

[Daniel Stone]

You can also purchase pre-made/assembled fly screens from the hardware store, or your local glazier. Once your prints are finished washing, squeegee them and place them face up on the screens, laying one screen atop another below. Basically, making a 'sandwich' of sorts. Use a screen over the top layer, so its all protected. Use some bungee cords to keep the 'sandwich' together, and you can make your stack as thick or thin as you need. This stacking will only allow the paper to curl so much(since it's being constrained by the screen above it).

Cheap, easy and I've found it to be very effective. Easy to keep clean too, especially if the metal frames are aluminum vs steel(so they don't rust). Nylon screen material is quite durable too.You might be able to get stainless frames, although I haven't asked if they're a possibility on custom-made frames. I just bought mine for ~$8/36"x48" screen on sale @ Home Depot.

-Dan

Kinda like this:


::-----------screen-----------------::
. print print print print print print
::-----------screen-----------------::
. print. print print print
::-----------screen-----------------::
. print print print print print print
::-----------screen-----------------::
. print print print print print print
::-----------screen-----------------::

[jp]

I get the prints mostly flat in the darkroom by hanging them up to dry back to back with another one, and putting wooden clothes pins at the top and bottom keeping them together while they dry. The curls kind of cancel each other out.

I've got a used seal drymount press. Very useful for a last little bit of quick flattening.

[Jac@stafford.net]

A question: Some papers, especially economy papers, curl like crazy and some lay flat very nicely.

Which brands lay flat best? (I find Ilford to be good enough, but I also use an antique book press.)

[ROL]

ShannonG, while no expert, I routinely dry and store (flatten) fiber prints up to 30"x40". It is typically a 2 part process:

1) Drying prints slowly, as in over a 8 to 24 hour period depending on size, will help greatly in preventing exorbitant curling. Don't think that anything other than passive, unassisted drying, on screens will get you any further ahead in this regard. Quick drying results in crispy prints. Some amount of ambient humidity is a good thing. Before establishing my latest lab, with under cabinet drying screens (http://www.rangeoflightphotography.com/pages/a-darkroom-portrait#dryside), I used these portable homemade screen racks w/"Zone VI" screens for awhile (for sale, if anybody wants them):


http://www.rangeoflightphotography.com/SupportPics/Portable%20Drying%20Rack/DryingRack1.jpg

http://www.rangeoflightphotography.com/SupportPics/Portable%20Drying%20Rack/DryingRack2.jpg


2) Once completely dry, either use a dry mount press to flatten them quickly, or leave them under heavy weight for a couple of weeks, where they will eventually become as flat as if pressed, the only difference being time and expense. A weighted flattening system should still be used in conjunction with a press anyway, for proper bonding during cooling when dry mounting. I believe Calumet or somebody used to sell heavy flattening weights ($$) for this purpose. Heavy is heavy (even if he ain't my brother). I use a large, heavy, replaceable 1-ply rag paper covered, melamine laminated board for all final flattening and bonding, sometimes augmented with with a heavy filled tool chest placed on top:


http://www.rangeoflightphotography.com/SupportPics/PrintPresentation/CoolingPress.jpg

Also, see Print Presenation (http://www.rangeoflightphotography.com/pages/Fine%20Art%20Print%20Presentation).

[ROL]

A question: Some papers, especially economy papers, curl like crazy and some lay flat very nicely.

Which brands lay flat best? (I find Ilford to be good enough, but I also use an antique book press.)

Thicker ones. :rolleyes:

[ROL]

You might be able to get stainless frames, although I haven't asked if they're a possibility on custom-made frames.

Dan, aluminum is the way to go, light, rust proof, and used almost exclusively these days. The local yellow pages and telephone poles (and my porch, it seems) are filled with guys who will make screens of any size on their truck at your location.

[Roger Cole]

Once the print has been hung up to dry overnight I flatten it in my hot mounting press, just for a few minutes.
Pete.


I purchased secondhand dry mount press from Ebay, works fine, but others on here suggest use of glassine sheet envelops to protect print while pressing.

Russ

I have a press someone gave me but the thermostat doesn't work - it has two positions, off and full blast. Plus the paten and plate are quite old and stained, so something has to go between it and the print on each side.

I've tried using it but I need something different to protect the prints. I've tried using photo blotter sheets but they stick to the paper (to Ilford MGIV without hardener in the fixer, anyway) and leave bits. The bits can be removed by re-washing and wiping them off, so the print isn't ruined but I'm back where I started with a wet print.

[Tin Can]

Gotta use release paper and Costco sells Parchment Baking paper that is similar to release paper.



I have a press someone gave me but the thermostat doesn't work - it has two positions, off and full blast. Plus the paten and plate are quite old and stained, so something has to go between it and the print on each side.

I've tried using it but I need something different to protect the prints. I've tried using photo blotter sheets but they stick to the paper (to Ilford MGIV without hardener in the fixer, anyway) and leave bits. The bits can be removed by re-washing and wiping them off, so the print isn't ruined but I'm back where I started with a wet print.

[Roger Cole]

I see Freestyle has release paper. It's pretty expensive stuff really even if it is a LOT of it. Just cut to size and put between the press and print? Or between the print and photo blotters which then go as a sandwich into the press or?

[Tin Can]

I don't use blotter paper, I dry first almost all the way then heat and release paper, try the Costco paper, it's cheap, not every store has it.

[Tin Can]

Also B&H has almost all parts for hot presses.


Gotta use release paper and Costco sells Parchment Baking paper that is similar to release paper.

[ROL]

Roger, assuming you're not actually trying to dry prints in your press (:eek:), just use clean dry 4-ply mat board on each side of your print (I hope you have the foam on the bottom side of the press, or can replace it). Mat board will also aid in dispersing heat more evenly. Release papers are an entirely unnecessary, problematic, and expensive option. They were designed to be used with other types of flat art.

[ShannonG]

So I used my Doran print dryer (very low heat)then immediately put them under wait before they cool down(if I dont get them under wait within 30 sec.or so they curl,,badly)but between the 2 sheets of foam core for a day or so it seems to be working better for me than my screen rack does.I guess time will tell,ill keep experimenting.Of course,more ideas are very welcome,i really enjoy hearing your experiences with fibber,thanks for the support.

[Roger Cole]

Roger, assuming you're not actually trying to dry prints in your press (:eek:), just use clean dry 4-ply mat board on each side of your print (I hope you have the foam on the bottom side of the press, or can replace it). Mat board will also aid in dispersing heat more evenly. Release papers are an entirely unnecessary, problematic, and expensive option. They were designed to be used with other types of flat art.

No, I'm not trying to dry in the press, just flatten. I dry on Zone VI screens like the ones you have, bought back when Zone VI was going strong. There is no foam on the bottom of the press. I didn't know there was supposed to be, actually. It was a "you can have it if you haul it off" thing. I'll try to get a photo of it later today and post.

[ROL]

...i really enjoy hearing your experiences with fibber...

If that was a crack at me, I'm insulted. If not, I'm offended. ;)

[Tin Can]

Look at this page.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=accessories+for+dry+mount+presses+%26+laminators&N=0&InitialSearch=yes&sts=ta



No, I'm not trying to dry in the press, just flatten. I dry on Zone VI screens like the ones you have, bought back when Zone VI was going strong. There is no foam on the bottom of the press. I didn't know there was supposed to be, actually. It was a "you can have it if you haul it off" thing. I'll try to get a photo of it later today and post.

[ROL]

I missed where he's made it clear that he has a Seal. Be that as it may, and for anyone else actually searching (NO!, not that!) Seal presses, here ya' go:

Seal Laminating Press Owner's Manual (http://www.rangeoflightphotography.com/Technical%20Manuals/Seal%20120MX%20Press.pdf)

[Eric Biggerstaff]

Prints curl more in low humidity environments, like here in the Rockies.

All fiber based prints will curl, economy is no different than expensive. I have some Ilford that was drying today and it curled right up.

If you live in a low humidity area, once the prints have been washed, squeegee them and lay them face down on a clean drying screen, I can fit four 11X14 prints on one screen. Then place a second screen directly on top of that, and load it with prints, then place another screen. Just keep stacking. This method will cause the prints to dry much more slowly and curl much less. In higher humidity areas you should not stack the prints closely.

You can then use a dry mount press to flatten them. Do not place any image in direct contact with the platen on the press. The standard method is to keep two clean sheets of mount board in the press at all time. Heat the press with the boards in it and they will come up to temperature in time. Place the prints in between the mat boards and press them for a minute or so, then remove and let cool under a clean, heavy weight. The press should have a sheet of high density foam on the bottom when the press is open.

That should about do it.

[Roger Cole]

Roger, assuming you're not actually trying to dry prints in your press (:eek:), just use clean dry 4-ply mat board on each side of your print (I hope you have the foam on the bottom side of the press, or can replace it). Mat board will also aid in dispersing heat more evenly. Release papers are an entirely unnecessary, problematic, and expensive option. They were designed to be used with other types of flat art.


No, I'm not trying to dry in the press, just flatten. I dry on Zone VI screens like the ones you have, bought back when Zone VI was going strong. There is no foam on the bottom of the press. I didn't know there was supposed to be, actually. It was a "you can have it if you haul it off" thing. I'll try to get a photo of it later today and post.


Look at this page.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=accessories+for+dry+mount+presses+%26+laminators&N=0&InitialSearch=yes&sts=ta


I missed where he's made it clear that he has a Seal. Be that as it may, and for anyone else actually searching (NO!, not that!) Seal presses, here ya' go:

Seal Laminating Press Owner's Manual (http://www.rangeoflightphotography.com/Technical%20Manuals/Seal%20120MX%20Press.pdf)

It's not a Seal. It's a Perma-Trans Products PT-80. The lower side inside looks like cork, not foam (and a mess, as is the upper platen.) Yes it's missing a bolt on the left side there but seems to work ok if a bit wobbly - once pressing it's all even. See attached.

105298105299

[ShannonG]

Ok,so i made this press today,It holds up to 16X20 prints. So I dried on my Doran print drier then immediately put them in the press. Testing it now,We will see if it works.Should I skip the dryer and just put them in the press after squeegeeing.
105827105828

[Bruce Barlow]

My 8x10 prints dry with an emulsion-in curl. If I gently bend them with the emulsion up, and place them sideways in an 8x10 paper box, I can leave them overnight, and the curl will disappear. Zone VI sold an expensive item to do the same thing long ago made out of wood.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]105870[/ATTACH}

[Ginette]

Ok,so i made this press today,It holds up to 16X20 prints. So I dried on my Doran print drier then immediately put them in the press. Testing it now,We will see if it works.Should I skip the dryer and just put them in the press after squeegeeing.
105827105828
I don't think it is a good idea to put the squeeged prints into a sandwich in your homemade press unless you have very heavy blotter papers (like a 2 ply) and even this, I think you cannot stack a lot like this because humidity will be trapped.
Traditional sequence on fiberglass screens, really close for each others (this will dry more slowly and uniformely), then put in your press when papers are dried.

About the print dryer, I don't know if it will be better to dry partially the prints before to put them on screens or to pass the prints at the end to finish the drying and then put in your press. I use drymounting press at the end of the drying sequence but as you have already the print drier, you should use it.

[Roger Cole]

Agree - don't put them in the press until they are dry.

[ShannonG]

Thanks for the help, Well so far the press is working better than anything else I have tried. The prints are are coming out pretty darn flat now.Ive been drying them in the print dryer first.

[Noel Peirce]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the use of a print flattening agent made up of glycerin and water. After washing, the print is soaked for 5 minutes, squeegeed as usual and placed face up on nylon screens with an over screen as Daniel suggested. This will give you a fairly flat print unless you live in the dry desert as I do, then you still might have to press them either under books or a dry mount press. The formula for "Print Flattener" is 60. ml of Glycerin and add water to make 1 liter. By the way, face up on screens is usually safer than face down unless you have really clean screens. Another issue that might be posed from the archival purest (who I can respect), is the use of heat from a dry mount press could shorten the life of the prints. Also introducing yet another chemical like Glycerin may also be questionable in regards to print life. So take you pick, as there is always going to be another opinion.