Ansco 5x7 Rebuild [Archive] - Large Format Photography Forum

Lffbug

16-Nov-2013, 14:08

After receiving the camera, I was concerned that I had bitten off more than I could chew.
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I've done a little restoration of old furniture and tools, but never a camera. Furthermore, my knowledge of large format is just budding - I freely admit that I am still wet behind the ears. Up until the past year and a half, most of what I had learned about photography was digital - nothing involving wood, brass, and movements.

Lffbug

16-Nov-2013, 14:17

Disassembling the camera was not difficult, but perhaps a little difficult bringing myself to do it. There were so many parts and pieces. I ended up taking a lot of pictures of parts at various angles as I disassembled them, just in case I forgot how to get it back together. Good thing I did!
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All the sections laid out on my work table. Don't worry, the hammer was not used in the disassembly!

Tin Can

16-Nov-2013, 14:24

It's worth it, they are nice cameras.

I have one.

Lffbug

16-Nov-2013, 14:33

The bellows were old, pretty stiff, and brittle. I took them off and set them aside and focused my efforts and the remaining pieces.

Also one of the parts is a 4x5 back that's not part of the original camera. I hope to find it useful to me (if nothing else I can get a perceived longer focal length with my current lens), but I am more excited about the prospect of using 5x7 film, even though it's hard to get a hold of. (Several folks have mentioned shooting paper for contact prints - I think I'd like to try it, but I'll probably need some advice from you more seasoned LF'ers).

Lffbug

16-Nov-2013, 15:44

Some repair was required of the rear standard, and a couple of other places. The wood had developed cracks and splits that would cause problems down the road if not repaired. So before sanding and refinishing I had to repair some of the wooden parts.

I have been restoring the camera section by section. I removed the brass and shined it, sanded the wood and removed the old paint, stained and finished it.

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Rear standard after repair

Ron Stowell

16-Nov-2013, 15:49

I have restored two or three of these cameras, one suggestion for disassembly as you take each component apart keep all the pieces and screw in a separate container. ie: coffee can
My last restoration ended up with a 5x7 Calumet bail back and a Walnut lens board.
As far as buying film I believe B and H, Adorama and Freestyle carry 5x7 film and there is also 5x7 E-ray film available.
There are a couple of options for the bellows. There is a man in China that sells bellows on the big auction site you would have to give him the measurements and then there is a company in the UK that will do the same, last quote I had was for a little over $200. US dollars.
I also talked to the company in Rochester, NY that can make bellows and they weren't all that interested in making a pair.

Lffbug

16-Nov-2013, 16:04

There are a couple of options for the bellows. There is a man in China that sells bellows on the big auction site you would have to give him the measurements and then there is a company in the UK that will do the same, last quote I had was for a little over $200. US dollars.
I also talked to the company in Rochester, NY that can make bellows and they weren't all that interested in making a pair.

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The bellows have so far been my biggest hurdle. I thought for a while about trying to make some, but felt that would be quite a challenge. I even went so far as to practice making bellows with paper. But, I hadn't been able to come up with a material that I thought would be suitable (light tight, thin, and flexible), and the paper mockup proved to be more difficult than I thought.

I finally decided a few months ago to contact Jim Ormond who used to own Western Bellows. He said even though his business no longer exists, he is still making bellows until all of his stock is used up.

Unfortunately, Mr. Ormond's health hasn't been great, and I've been waiting for him to finish for a couple months. I just spoke with him this week, and he still expects to finish them, so I guess I'll just see where things go.

Lffbug

17-Nov-2013, 05:19

I didn't have a lens with the camera, so I started doing some looking and ended up buying a 210mm Rodenstock f5.6 Sironar-N as a starter. I built a lensboard from a thin sheet of maple, but I didn't put a rabbet in it. I'm concerned that not having one may result in a light leak. I may have to change up my lensboard a bit if that's the case.

I'm hoping the lens choice is a suitable choice for a 5x7, hopefully having enough image circle for movements. I also think a brass lens would look really neat, but that's not top priority right now.

Here's how it sits today.

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Obviously I still need the bellows before I can start using it. On my want, but don't need list, I would like to make some sort of leather carry strap to replace the missing original, and find a full size ground glass. I attempted to grind a glass yesterday using automotive rubbing compound, but it wasn't working so well when I accidentally broke the glass. Oh well, it was cheap glass anyway. I might be better off just buying one.

Ron Stowell

17-Nov-2013, 05:57

Automotive valve grinding compound for grinding the ground glass available from NAPA. I have been able to obtain spare ground glass from the auction site.
Take a look at www.strapworks.com they have ready made straps that look great.
Keep us posted as you progress this looks like a great project. I 've got an Ansco sitting on my work bench waiting to become a winter project.

Lffbug

17-Nov-2013, 06:11

Roger Thoms

17-Nov-2013, 08:54

On your lens board cut a correspondingly smaller piece of thin maple and glue it to the back of your lens board to form a rabbet. You can also cut a bigger hole in the board to form a rabbet for the retaining lens retaining ring.

Here's another source for handles. http://www.brettunsvillage.com/trunks/howto/parts/handles.htm

It's really nice to see this camera coming back to life. Looks great!

Roger

Peter Gomena

17-Nov-2013, 19:35

Nice work! I love how old wood and brass come back to life but still retain a feeling of age and use.

Ron (Netherlands)

18-Nov-2013, 14:38

Really impressive resurrection. Could you please reveal how you treated the wood?

Lffbug

18-Nov-2013, 19:43

Really impressive resurrection. Could you please reveal how you treated the wood?

Sure. Most of the work is in the sanding and preparation. I removed as much of the brass hardware as I could, and sanded off the old paint and finish. I used 150 grit, or sometimes 100 grit paper for more troublesome areas. Once I was down to the bare wood, I used 220 grit sandpaper until all the surfaces were smooth to the touch. Getting to this point is over 90% of the work.

I then stained the wood with 1-2 coats of wood stain, and once dried, I rubbed on 2-3 coats of polyurethane by hand, letting it dry between coats.

I am sure there are any number of other finishes that would work equally well. In my opinion, good preparation is the most important step of the work.

gphoto

18-Nov-2013, 19:56

Lffbug

19-Nov-2013, 18:50

This is great, I was just given exactly the same model of camera, maybe a few years older since the knobs are brass on mine which I hope to restore. I'd be very interested if you have any suggestions of things which worked for you with the disassembly and what glue you used for the repairs. Mine is in a bit better shape than yours was but also has some wood cracks and unglued joints.

That's neat! I really like the brass knobs!

One very good suggestion that's been mentioned is to keep parts together while dissembling, otherwise you might not remember how it goes back together. I would actually get a single section (e.g. the rear standard) completely finished before moving on to the next.

Also, I took a lot of pictures as I disassembled. That helped me a few times when I wasn't completely sure how something went back together.

Take your time - and know that it's going to take some time. And budget your time accordingly.

In most of my woodworking in the past, I have just used plain wood glue. I didn't this time; don't really have a good reason why. I used Gorilla glue instead, which is supposed to be very strong, though my experience is that the glued sections aren't generally the weak link usually. Also, Gorilla glue is more of a pain to work with - it doesn't clean up with water, and it expands as it dries. In hindsight, I'd probably just use wood glue if doing it again.

gphoto

20-Nov-2013, 12:25

Thanks Lffbug, I'm wondering how you got the rear square out of the brass uprights, it looks almost like they're riveted in there?

gphoto

20-Nov-2013, 12:33

Also any advice on stripping the old shellac would be very helpful. Especially in the tight corners…

Lffbug

20-Nov-2013, 21:22

I didn't remove the riveted sections, I just worked them in place as good as I could. Those are some of the slow going sections. I just was not confident that I could get it apart and back together without causing damage.

I don't think it is possible to get all of the shellac out of the inside corners without over sanding the surrounding wood. I didn't strip anything, I just sanded. My intent was to get the camera to "fully functional" rather than "like new", but also want it to look good in the end. I don't mind if it looks old, after all, it is. In my opinion, it is not necessary to get to perfect as minor imperfections and colorations provide a little patina and character. What I found is that on those pesky tight corners, even though I couldn't get all of the shellac off, it still sanded smooth and accepted stain. YMMV.

Jeremy

Lffbug

21-Dec-2013, 21:06

The project nears completion... I still have a couple minor things to do, but it's about ready to use!!

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Two new things: new ground glass and new bellows! (Sorry about the poor quality smartphone pictures)

I bought the ground glass from a seller on eBay named "photofinder." Quality and fit are great.

The bellows came from Jim Ormond in California. A few comments are in order:

I learned about Jim through this site, and from recommendations of forum members. Jim used to be the owner of an outfit called Western Bellows.

The good: the bellows look and feel good and accommodate a lot of camera movement. Quality of construction is very good.

The bad: I had to send in the old bellows with the internal frame for the new bellows to be made. However, it seems like the internal wooden frame that was on the old bellows is not the same one that was returned to me (at least on the front). I had to do some work (more than I would've liked) to make the bellows fit up and be light tight on the front - this should have been avoidable.

The ugly: it took a long time and a lot of calling to have the finished bellows returned. While my check was cashed immediately, I waited several months to get the bellows. Jim was having some health problems that impacted his ability to complete the job.

Bottom line: I recommend getting bellows made over doing it yourself if you haven't made bellows before. I would however, probably recommend going somewhere other than where I did.

All that said, this has been a long, slow project, but I am looking forward to taking some pictures with the camera!

Noah B

21-Dec-2013, 22:20

Looks great! I've always wanted to restore an old view camera.

Tin Can

22-Dec-2013, 21:56

Excellent job. I have the same camera in original grey, still too nice to refinish, but I have 5 backs for it. You could go insane finding and restoring all the backs made for this camera.

1 5x7
2 4x5
3 5x7 slider like yours
4 4x5 slider
5 2x3 slider

All my slider backs are natural wood color and seem to be the same as yours.

I really like using the 5x7 slider for 2 quick portrait shots.

Keeping my eye out for a 3x4 slider...:)

Lffbug

22-Dec-2013, 22:30

Randy,

Thanks for that info! I've been wondering if there are other backs for this camera.

I just got to thinking about this today; not sure why I hadn't thought of it before: there's no way to shoot full frame portrait orientation on 5x7 film with the 5x7 sliding back, is there?

Of course you can make two 3.5x5 portraits on the one sheet of 5x7 as you mention.

I'm assuming with a regular 5x7 back it's possible to rotate the back.

I also have a 4x5 back that was included with this camera. I don't think it's Ansco. I had to build some shims to make it fit properly. I am almost done restoring this back too.

Jeremy

Tin Can

23-Dec-2013, 00:01

Yes, I am sure you will want a 'normal' 5x7 back. Just keep looking, these Ansco's were popular and parts do pop up.

With your new skills you could make a 5x7 back. The only tricky part is the GG frame and there was an aluminum one recently on eBay. Aluminum GG frames are nice as they wear very slowly and provide a lasting and correct 'T' distance.

Oops! I did a search, and look at this, http://www.ebay.com/itm/5x7-Grey-Burk-James-Back-for-Your-Project-Camera-Back-Gridded-Ground-glass-/301048396611?pt=US_Film_Backs_Holders&hash=item4617e1fb43

I am not sure if the B&J is a direct fit, and I could check my cameras here. If you need to check fit tonight let me know now...

Randy,

Thanks for that info! I've been wondering if there are other backs for this camera.

I just got to thinking about this today; not sure why I hadn't thought of it before: there's no way to shoot full frame portrait orientation on 5x7 film with the 5x7 sliding back, is there?

Of course you can make two 3.5x5 portraits on the one sheet of 5x7 as you mention.

I'm assuming with a regular 5x7 back it's possible to rotate the back.

I also have a 4x5 back that was included with this camera. I don't think it's Ansco. I had to build some shims to make it fit properly. I am almost done restoring this back too.

Jeremy

Tin Can

23-Dec-2013, 00:41

I went back and looked at that listing, it's a little odd as it has no pins and has grooves cut for being a slider. It will definitely need something to fit your Ansco and I cannot say what from the pictures. It does look NOS.

Yes, I am sure you will want a 'normal' 5x7 back. Just keep looking, these Ansco's were popular and parts do pop up.

With your new skills you could make a 5x7 back. The only tricky part is the GG frame and there was an aluminum one recently on eBay. Aluminum GG frames are nice as they wear very slowly and provide a lasting and correct 'T' distance.

Oops! I did a search, and look at this, http://www.ebay.com/itm/5x7-Grey-Burk-James-Back-for-Your-Project-Camera-Back-Gridded-Ground-glass-/301048396611?pt=US_Film_Backs_Holders&hash=item4617e1fb43

I am not sure if the B&J is a direct fit, and I could check my cameras here. If you need to check fit tonight let me know now...

Lffbug

23-Dec-2013, 05:20

Good stuff! When I looked at your link I also found a wood 5x7 back that looks like it could match right up. I don't know if it's Ansco or not but the brass hardware looks the same. Now you got my wheels turning...

Jim Graves

26-Dec-2013, 23:19

....

The bellows came from Jim Ormond in California. A few comments are in order:

I learned about Jim through this site, and from recommendations of forum members. Jim used to be the owner of an outfit called Western Bellows.

The good: the bellows look and feel good and accommodate a lot of camera movement. Quality of construction is very good.

The bad: I had to send in the old bellows with the internal frame for the new bellows to be made. However, it seems like the internal wooden frame that was on the old bellows is not the same one that was returned to me (at least on the front). I had to do some work (more than I would've liked) to make the bellows fit up and be light tight on the front - this should have been avoidable.

The ugly: it took a long time and a lot of calling to have the finished bellows returned. While my check was cashed immediately, I waited several months to get the bellows. Jim was having some health problems that impacted his ability to complete the job.

Bottom line: I recommend getting bellows made over doing it yourself if you haven't made bellows before. I would however, probably recommend going somewhere other than where I did ... .

.

I used Jim also for bellows ... read all the stuff in this Forum ... bottom line ... Jim does a quality job ... his price is very good ... BUT he will tell you it'll take 2 weeks .. but it will take 6 weeks to 3 months. I used him knowing this ... I wanted to use a local small craftsman that does quality work ... we need to support those guys.

He told me it would take 2 weeks, I knew it would take much longer ....... soooo, I never called him or bugged him ... approximately 2 months after I ordered, the brand new, perfect bellows for my 8x10 Kodak 2D arrived ... I saved myself the worry and stomach acid over the delay because I knew it was coming ... that was a few years ago and I'm still using the 2D, the bellows still look great, and I am still very satisfied and would use him again.

Tin Can

27-Dec-2013, 11:30

This most likely fits also, as I have one, but not a good price and not really very useful, unless you want to shoot 2x3 with a big lens!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=131079725283

I may be ordering a lens board from this guy, he has many for all kinds of cameras. I cannot vouch for the fit.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/230983982880

Good stuff! When I looked at your link I also found a wood 5x7 back that looks like it could match right up. I don't know if it's Ansco or not but the brass hardware looks the same. Now you got my wheels turning...

Michael Cienfuegos

27-Dec-2013, 14:58

This most likely fits also, as I have one, but not a good price and not really very useful, unless you want to shoot 2x3 with a big lens!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=131079725283

I may be ordering a lens board from this guy, he has many for all kinds of cameras. I cannot vouch for the fit.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/230983982880

Somehow I'm having a hard time visualizing how to use this back. I have more than one Kodak 5x7 2D, this might be fun to do two shots on one sheet, but for some strange reason my feeble brain isn't working well today. Probably need a bit more EtOH to kick start it. :(

m

Tin Can

27-Dec-2013, 16:15

The 2x3 back is usable at least 2 ways. In the picture, the GG is covering a 2x3 hole in the back. You can simply focus with the GG and slide in a DDS. Or you can have a roll film holder on the right side and after focusing, simply slide the right side over the hole and expose.

Really handy!

I recently bought the same thing for $25 without a GG. It needed a thinner paper shim to make it a little tighter and there are felt light traps between the 2 sliding parts.

With this setup and the lensboard guys board, I will be able to shoot my larger lenses with the 5x7 body in whatever format I want.

Somehow I'm having a hard time visualizing how to use this back. I have more than one Kodak 5x7 2D, this might be fun to do two shots on one sheet, but for some strange reason my feeble brain isn't working well today. Probably need a bit more EtOH to kick start it. :(

m

Tin Can

27-Dec-2013, 16:57

M, I think you were thinking of the bigger slider, I like the 5x7 slider as you get 2 images fast. Leave DS out slide the frame over, and expose. Like this, X-Ray film test with Plastica.

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The 2x3 back is usable at least 2 ways. In the picture, the GG is covering a 2x3 hole in the back. You can simply focus with the GG and slide in a DDS. Or you can have a roll film holder on the right side and after focusing, simply slide the right side over the hole and expose.

Really handy!

I recently bought the same thing for $25 without a GG. It needed a thinner paper shim to make it a little tighter and there are felt light traps between the 2 sliding parts.

With this setup and the lensboard guys board, I will be able to shoot my larger lenses with the 5x7 body in whatever format I want.

Lffbug

3-Jan-2014, 19:40

I used Jim also for bellows ... read all the stuff in this Forum ... bottom line ... Jim does a quality job ... his price is very good ... BUT he will tell you it'll take 2 weeks .. but it will take 6 weeks to 3 months. I used him knowing this ... I wanted to use a local small craftsman that does quality work ... we need to support those guys.

He told me it would take 2 weeks, I knew it would take much longer ....... soooo, I never called him or bugged him ... approximately 2 months after I ordered, the brand new, perfect bellows for my 8x10 Kodak 2D arrived ... I saved myself the worry and stomach acid over the delay because I knew it was coming ... that was a few years ago and I'm still using the 2D, the bellows still look great, and I am still very satisfied and would use him again.

Jim, thanks for sharing this. As I have started using the camera a little bit, I do like the quality of the bellows. They have a lot of flexibility and seem to be well made. Hopefully I didn't come across too sharply in my earlier post.