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View Full Version : How do the Fuginon lenses stack up?



Johnny Reno
10-Nov-2013, 16:03
I am thinking of trying Fuginon lenses. I have never used any of them. I have used Symmar convertibles. Zeiss Planar 135mm. Zeiss Tessar. Xenar (Linhof Select). Rodenstock APO-Sironar-S. Angulon. Super Angulon and most of the Nikon Nikkor W lenses. I will be doing general pictorial and architectural and am thinking of trying Fugi lenses. If you use the Fugi lenses, what do you think?

This is my first post and I hope I'm doing it right

Lachlan 717
10-Nov-2013, 16:26
Welcome, Johnny.

Any of the modern, EBC (multi coated, lettering on the outside of the front element) FUJINON lenses are as good as the Schneider, Rodenstock and/or Nikkor lenses. There really is very, very little to separate any of the modern Big 4 lens manufacturers' offerings.

Nigel Smith
10-Nov-2013, 16:26
Hi Johnny, welcome! I don't have any LF Fujinon lenses, just an enlarger lens (Fujinon EX, it's pretty good). However if you're looking for info, replace your g with a j (i.e. Fujinon) and you'll find more info. Cheers, Nige

vinny
10-Nov-2013, 17:23
I own three or four of them. Junk.

richardman
10-Nov-2013, 17:46
So junky that you STILL own 3-4 of them?!

Fujinon makes some of the finest lens. I own 3-4 of them and they are not junk XD

Daniel Stone
10-Nov-2013, 18:10
I LOVE my Fujinon lenses. I also use a Fuji GX680 for rollfilm, and it's equally stunning optically.

Fuji doesn't mess around

Brassai
10-Nov-2013, 19:00
I have the 180mm f5.6. It's hard to go wrong with them.

Ari
10-Nov-2013, 19:08
Often underrated and overlooked, which is why they often cost a little less than other brands.
Sharpness, contrast and a large image circle define the Fujinons for me; I have the 210W and 250W, both older versions, and they are fantastic.

Peter De Smidt
10-Nov-2013, 19:36
I'm a fan as we'll.

Leigh
10-Nov-2013, 21:20
Hi Johnny, and welcome aboard.

I have several Fujinon lenses, and have found them to be uniformly excellent.

They did not have the marketing budget that the other manufacturers enjoyed, so they're less common in the used market.
That does not mean that they're inferior to the other major lens makers in any way.

You do want the later multi-coated (EBC) lenses, with lettering on the outside of the front ring rather than inside.

The majority of my lenses are Rodenstock Apo-Sironar-S series, so I think my standards are pretty high.

- Leigh

angusparker
10-Nov-2013, 21:23
Wonderful lenses often in unusual focal lengths and small sizes. I have 180, 210, 240, 300, 450, and 600 versions.

Jody_S
10-Nov-2013, 21:35
Fuginon? Fuggedaboutit.

I'm a fan since I bought my GS645. Then the bellows went. The lens is still excellent, though. For LF, I have one 300mm, with a 210 on order.

goodfood
10-Nov-2013, 22:19
I have two Fujinon lenses, 135mm and 300mm. The 135mm lens always stay with my camera.

MIke Sherck
10-Nov-2013, 23:21
I have a 90mm f/8, a 125mm f/5.6, two 210mm f/5.6 (older one I use for 8x10 and a newer one for 4x5), and have had in the past the tiny little 150mm f/6.3, the newer 180mm f/5.6, and the 420mm f/8 L lens I used for 8x10. All have been excellent. The ones I sold were in focal lengths I replaced with others more suited to my taste and the 420mm, while outstanding, was replaced by a somewhat lighter Apo Artar of the same focal length. That may have been a mistake but it's too late now. I'd recommend them without reservation as soon as I find a 125mm f/8 at a good price. :)

Mike

richardman
11-Nov-2013, 01:21
Here are two samples of Fujinon, one is the 150mm CMW on a Chamonix F1 4x5:

http://richardmanphoto.com/PICS/20131107-Scanned-154-Edit.jpg

Second, a SMALL Fujinon 45mm for the XPan:

http://richardmanphoto.com/PICS/20131111-Scanned-166-Edit.jpg

dave_whatever
11-Nov-2013, 02:31
The early single coated 90/8 fujinon I had wasn't amazing off axis (no idea if its better or worse than super angulons of a similar vintage) , but the more modern 240/9 and 300/8.5 I have seem as sharp as anything.

vinny
11-Nov-2013, 07:02
Oh, you mean fujinon? Yeah, those are great. Much better than the fugi's.

Drew Wiley
11-Nov-2013, 09:50
Fuji is a major manufacturer of high-end lenses of all kinds, though they have apparently stopped making most of their large format lenses. There are still plenty around, and some are absolute classics, as good as they get. But you need to be more specific about what you need.

Johnny Reno
11-Nov-2013, 11:56
Hi Johnny, and welcome aboard.

I have several Fujinon lenses, and have found them to be uniformly excellent.

They did not have the marketing budget that the other manufacturers enjoyed, so they're less common in the used market.
That does not mean that they're inferior to the other major lens makers in any way.

You do want the later multi-coated (EBC) lenses, with lettering on the outside of the front ring rather than inside.

The majority of my lenses are Rodenstock Apo-Sironar-S series, so I think my standards are pretty high.

- Leigh

brandon13
11-Nov-2013, 11:57
I shoot mostly 19th century lenses but my one 8x10 lens in a shutter is a single coated Fujinon 360mm f6.3 W and I really like it. I shoot mostly wet plate but I just started shooting 8x10 film again so it's getting used again. It's super sharp and has a ton of coverage.

richardman
11-Nov-2013, 12:28
Oh, you mean fujinon? Yeah, those are great. Much better than the fugi's.

+1 Those Fugi are DEADLY!

Alan Gales
11-Nov-2013, 12:31
I own a Fuji 250mm f6.7 lens for 8x10 and 4x5. It's one of my favorites. A buddy of mine shoots a Hasselblad Xpan with Fuji lenses. I'm considering buying a digital Fujinon X-E2 when it comes out. The X lenses are said to be outstanding. When you look at medium format film cameras the Fuji camera lenses are said to compare favorably with the Mamiya 6 and 7 lenses.

Fujinon makes sharp glass.

tgtaylor
11-Nov-2013, 12:33
I don't own any of their lens but Fujinon binoculars are excellent! I have the 16x70.

Thomas

Sal Santamaura
11-Nov-2013, 13:19
...When you look at medium format film cameras the Fuji camera lenses are said to compare favorably with the Mamiya 6 and 7 lenses...Not even close. Mamiya 7 lenses are in a class by themselves.

I own a GW670III and Mamiya 7 + 80mm. Both purchased new and the Fuji was gone over by their factory service. No comparison -- Mamiya wins a sharpness contest with the 90mm f/3.5 Fujinon by a mile. See here for objective data from someone else that corroborate my results:


http://www.hevanet.com/cperez/MF_testing.html

None of this has any bearing on Fujinon large format lens performance. I own many of those. Some are outstanding in certain parameters, others are just OK. I even found one that was a real dog -- the 300mm f/8.5 C. Bought brand new, it was the only Fujinon lens for any format I've ever encountered that exhibited very low contrast. Sold and replaced with a 300mm f/9 Nikkor M, with which I'm now very satisfied.

Kodachrome25
11-Nov-2013, 15:10
My only dud was an older 240A ( love my new one ) that I got from KEH that had coating etching from fungus.
I promptly returned the "Funghinon"...;-)

alpenhause
11-Nov-2013, 16:00
Fujinon lenses are NOT to be missed! They are often offered as standard lenses on the Alpenhause 110B and 900 polaroid 4x5 conversion cameras. All versions of 150mm and 135mm are just outstanding.

Hasselblad cameras now use Fujinon lenses even though they may be marked "Hasselblad" on the lenses, they used to use Carl Zeiss lenses and before that Ektars.

Drew Wiley
11-Nov-2013, 17:11
With med format film I get significantly better results with either Fuji A & C or Nikkor M lenses on a view camera than any dedicated MF system. It just makes sense. When you have movements available, you can not only control the plane of focus, but also more often use ideal f-stops. With a fixed-back camera, all you can do for depth of field is either stop down or change your perspective for a shorter focal length. The Mamiya 7 and other rangefinders are out of their league once long lenses come into play. So if you're talking about a basketball league just for only short people, with a hoop only 75mm high ....

Alan Gales
11-Nov-2013, 21:40
Not even close. Mamiya 7 lenses are in a class by themselves.

I own a GW670III and Mamiya 7 + 80mm. Both purchased new and the Fuji was gone over by their factory service. No comparison -- Mamiya wins a sharpness contest with the 90mm f/3.5 Fujinon by a mile. See here for objective data from someone else that corroborate my results:


http://www.hevanet.com/cperez/MF_testing.html

None of this has any bearing on Fujinon large format lens performance. I own many of those. Some are outstanding in certain parameters, others are just OK. I even found one that was a real dog -- the 300mm f/8.5 C. Bought brand new, it was the only Fujinon lens for any format I've ever encountered that exhibited very low contrast. Sold and replaced with a 300mm f/9 Nikkor M, with which I'm now very satisfied.

Sal, I'm not doubting you and your objective data but I have read so much where people claimed to have shot both and one or the other was a bit sharper or they were equal.

I use to own a Nikkor M f/9 lens. It was indeed sharp and contrasty.

Renato Tonelli
12-Nov-2013, 07:29
Fuji has ceased production of large format lenses.

(My info. comes from Badger Graphic Sales which is an importer of LF Fujinon lenses).

uphereinmytree
12-Nov-2013, 07:59
i have a 125 fujinon cmw that is definitely a keeper.

Leigh
12-Nov-2013, 08:28
I have read so much where people claimed to have shot both and one or the other was a bit sharper or they were equal.
In the vast majority of cases, the results simply reflect manufacturing variation from one individual sample to another.

All manufactured products have tolerances.

Given that lenses have many components, each of which has its own set of tolerances, it's sort of amazing that they work at all.

- Leigh

E. von Hoegh
12-Nov-2013, 08:54
I am thinking of trying Fuginon lenses. I have never used any of them. I have used Symmar convertibles. Zeiss Planar 135mm. Zeiss Tessar. Xenar (Linhof Select). Rodenstock APO-Sironar-S. Angulon. Super Angulon and most of the Nikon Nikkor W lenses. I will be doing general pictorial and architectural and am thinking of trying Fugi lenses. If you use the Fugi lenses, what do you think?

This is my first post and I hope I'm doing it right

I've never owned the LF lenses, but I have used them. I've owned and used their smallformat lenses. They were all excellent, and good value. Get one don't worry about the quality - worry instead about learning to utilise it, they won't let you down. :)

Sal Santamaura
12-Nov-2013, 09:08
...I have read so much where people claimed to have shot both and one or the other was a bit sharper or they were equal...Many claim many things. :D The percentage of people who either examine negatives under high magnification and/or have an enlarging system capable of revealing this difference in prints is vanishingly small. By the way, my observation refers to lenses on the 6x7, 6x8 and 6x9 all-mechanical Fuji rangefinders, not the recent GF670 camera. I've not tested the latter.


In the vast majority of cases, the results simply reflect manufacturing variation from one individual sample to another...My engineering career involved a thorough understanding of manufacturing tolerances. Those variations account for small differences between the performance of individual lenses on the above-noted Fuji rangefinder cameras and a similar scatter within Mamiya 7 80mm lens performance. The huge superiority of a Mamiya 80mm lens on a 7 camera is, however, consistent and not a result of sample variation.

paulr
12-Nov-2013, 09:37
Here's (http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/09/there-is-no-perfect-lens) the best article I've seen on lens sample variation, with a followup here (http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2011/10/the-limits-of-variation).

The discussion is about small format optics, where you'd expect more variation (the optical designs are much, much more complex, and many of the lenses are mass produced on a larger scale than LF optics). And in small formats, you'd expect variations to matter more, since enlargement factors are higher. So his conclusion is especially interesting: variations are ubiquitous when measured, but rarely visible in a real print.

One caveat is that he doesn't test any very old lenses, like the vintage types that are popular with some LF people. It's possible that variation was a bigger deal before the days of modern manufacturing.

He also distinguishes between normal variation and "bad" lenses. A lens with something genuinely wrong with it will be off the charts compared with the others.

Leigh
12-Nov-2013, 11:07
My engineering career involved a thorough understanding of manufacturing tolerances. Those variations account for small differences between the performance of individual lenses on the above-noted Fuji rangefinder cameras and a similar scatter within Mamiya 7 80mm lens performance.
I too had a full career in engineering, from front-line product design up through Engineering VP and Director of R&D.
I'm also a Journeyman Tool and Die Maker, so I'm intimately familiar with manufacturing processes.

My previous comment was about the small variations that are found between samples of the same or similar lenses, as I stated.

Major differences are certainly attributable to different designs, manufacturing techniques, or quality control standards (of late).

- Leigh

David Lobato
12-Nov-2013, 11:15
I have Fujinon lenses in medium format cameras and for LF. To my eyes they have a different signature compared to my other lenses. They are the utmost in sharpness and contrast, no doubt. A 90mm f8 I once had was just too contrasty for my taste and a Nikkor was more merciful to smooth tones. Other Fujis in my LF collection are very nice but not above some others. I love the buttery smooth tonality of my 14 inch Kodak Commercial Ektar lens, which my 360mm Fujinon doesn't quite have. Fujinons add to our wonderful lens choices for particular pictorial effects. I like them a lot but they don't fill all of my artistic needs.

Jody_S
12-Nov-2013, 11:29
I fear if we have all misunderstood the original poster's question.

The Fujinons I have come with some rather sturdy metal caps. If you have the original caps and they are not bent out off shape, you should be able to stack up 4 or 5 lenses before there is any serious danger off them toppling; that is if you start with the largest at the bottom, of course. I personally don't stack more than 2, because my 2nd floor workspace has a little spring in the floorboards, and I worry about them falling if I go to the 3rd level. But assuming a solid surface, I find they stack up far better than my Schneiders with plastic lens caps.

Drew Wiley
12-Nov-2013, 11:58
Most of the alleged web lens test data one encounters over the web are so full of holes you could sift gravel through them. All kinds of variables they never take cognizance of. I take all such stuff with a grain of salt.

Alan Gales
12-Nov-2013, 14:11
I fear if we have all misunderstood the original poster's question.

The Fujinons I have come with some rather sturdy metal caps. If you have the original caps and they are not bent out off shape, you should be able to stack up 4 or 5 lenses before there is any serious danger off them toppling; that is if you start with the largest at the bottom, of course. I personally don't stack more than 2, because my 2nd floor workspace has a little spring in the floorboards, and I worry about them falling if I go to the 3rd level. But assuming a solid surface, I find they stack up far better than my Schneiders with plastic lens caps.


;)

David Lobato
12-Nov-2013, 16:58
This stacking discussion is still relevant. One would place coveted lenses on the bottom of the stack. When it topples they will remain relatively safe. One would put the least favored lens on top, obviously. So in my case, the Commercial Ektar would be safely on the bottom, and my old Schneider Symmar lens with "Schneideritis" on the very top.

Per Madsen
13-Nov-2013, 04:58
I own a Fuji 250mm f6.7 lens for 8x10 and 4x5. It's one of my favorites. A buddy of mine shoots a Hasselblad Xpan with Fuji lenses. I'm considering buying a digital Fujinon X-E2 when it comes out. The X lenses are said to be outstanding. When you look at medium format film cameras the Fuji camera lenses are said to compare favorably with the Mamiya 6 and 7 lenses.

Fujinon makes sharp glass.

I have two Fuji large format lenses 150mm 5.6 and 250mm 6.3 and they are both razor sharp.

I have a Fuji X-pro1 with Zeiss 12 mm, Fuji 23 mm and Fuji 55-200mm,
and both the Zeiss and the Fuji lenses are extremely sharp already from full opening.

The Fuji X-trans sensor are also very good.

Alan Gales
13-Nov-2013, 07:15
I have a Fuji X-pro1 with Zeiss 12 mm, Fuji 23 mm and Fuji 55-200mm,
and both the Zeiss and the Fuji lenses are extremely sharp already from full opening.

The Fuji X-trans sensor are also very good.

You have a nice outfit! I'm considering the X-E2 with the 35mm lens. I'm also interested in the 56mm f/1.2 that's supposed to come out next year. I'm just afraid of what it may cost! ;)

Per Madsen
14-Nov-2013, 00:25
You have a nice outfit! I'm considering the X-E2 with the 35mm lens. I'm also interested in the 56mm f/1.2 that's supposed to come out next year. I'm just afraid of what it may cost! ;)

The rumored prices i have heard is : 999 GBP, 1200 EUR or 1299 USD

Harley Goldman
14-Nov-2013, 16:05
I have the 125, 150, 240A and the 450C. All are great performers. I would also have the 300, but I found a good deal on a Nikkor M 300, so I have that instead. Also a great performer.

Andrew O'Neill
14-Nov-2013, 16:27
Excellent lenses. I've used several over the years. Currently I have the 600 C, 125W, 90. I used to have one of their 400mm Tele lenses but rarely used it.

Alan Gales
14-Nov-2013, 16:30
The rumored prices i have heard is : 999 GBP, 1200 EUR or 1299 USD

That's what I was afraid of. :(

Thanks!

Per Madsen
15-Nov-2013, 00:51
That's what I was afraid of. :(

Thanks!

In Denmark the price will probably be between 9000 and 9500 DKR (= around 1200 EUR + danish VAT)

rich815
15-Nov-2013, 09:17
As most have already said the Fujinon lens are superlative. I personally have a GW690II
I, a GA 645 and a GA 645zi. I also have a number of their LF lenses I use with my Wista DX: 90/8 Fujinon-SW, 135/5,6 Fujinon-W, 180/5.6 Fujinon-W and 210/5.6 Fujinon-L.

Some nice examples using the 135/5,6-W lens with a roll film back on my DX:

104643

104644

Per Madsen
5-Jun-2014, 05:12
In Denmark the price will probably be between 9000 and 9500 DKR (= around 1200 EUR + danish VAT)

I ended up paying 8995 DKR for the lens, so my prediction was correct.