Kodak to exit bankruptcy

[Leigh]

The radio news just announced that a federal judge in New York has approved Kodak's plan to exit bankruptcy.

The story said Kodak would concentrate on printing activities.

- Leigh

[bob carnie]

Good for Kodak, I hope they can start building a great company again.

[Ari]

Bottom line for me: who's a-gonna make my film?

[AtlantaTerry]

Kodak's CEO thinks he can save the company by concentrating on making heavy duty printers for use in (for example) warehouses.

What the...?

[gleaf]

No reason to believe the MBA's have any idea that one should build on their strengths not something which is ho hum and never done well by the K people.

[Drew Wiley]

This stuck record again? No news here, really. Kodak's still film was already spun off awhile ago, and seems secure. They still make the film, but thankfully someone else is now in charge of distributing it. Don't expect the huge octopus empire of old Kodak to reemerge, however. That is what got them into so much trouble to begin with. Better to have smaller specialty companies coming out of this, devoted to specific product lines, who stand on their own and don't rob one another's financial momentum for the sake of a wild goose chase.

[Leigh]

Later news broadcast says that they will make no consumer products at all.

- Leigh

[Oren Grad]

Bottom line for me: who's a-gonna make my film?

Kodak will make it. The UK pension fund may own the film business now, but Kodak still owns and runs the manufacturing plant that will supply it.

[Drew Wiley]

There is six hundred miles of thread chatter about this already on APUG and elsewhere. Like I stated, the kind of film we use has already been transferred to an
independent company. Kodak still physically makes the same high-quality product in the same facilities, but technically as the contractor supplying the product,
not the corporation marketing it. So the "sky is falling" talk about losing current Kodak sheet films any time soon is completely unfounded. They're running both black and white and color neg sheet films rather frequently. And they have already electively ducked out of transparency film and black and white paper manufacture, so the game plan is perfectly evident. The products in the current lineup are quite popular, and they are also still an aggressive player in RA4 color printing paper. Better to have a discrete number of healthy products than a redundant overabundance of things which can't pay their own way. Ektar, Portra, and TMax are home run products that should be able to earn their keep for quite awhile. The new configuration of manufacture is specifically geared to smaller runs,
but sustained high quality. But Kodak as a formal marketing entity itself is orienting towards the commercial printing industry, among other things. The discontinuance of "consumer products" means no more silly Kodak branded Bugs Bunny pink plastic point' n shoot cameras etc. And cine film is a different category
too. Just settle down folks. No need for more stampedes. Just buy your film and enjoy it.

[Shootar401]

Just as I stared to shoot more Portra and Ektar Kodak will stop making consumer goods. WTF?

[Ari]

Kodak will make it. The UK pension fund may own the film business now, but Kodak still owns and runs the manufacturing plant that will supply it.

Thanks, Oren and Drew; I have not kept abreast of the messiness.

[Daniel Stone]

Point is:

Don't buy up a lifetime supply, just buy consistently. Consistently enough so retailers small and large are constantly having to rebuild inventory, and thusly, new product will need to be manufactured.

I still wish they made at least E100G though, that was a really beautiful, very versatile film. Scans like a dream too!

-Dan

[Camillou]

Point is:
I still wish they made at least E100G though, that was a really beautiful, very versatile film. Scans like a dream too!
-Dan

Yes, E100g... For 8x10 portraiture it was a real wonder. Now that fuji has discontinued Astia there's no low contrast slide in sheet films left.
What a sadness...

[Steve Smith]

Kodak will make it. The UK pension fund may own the film business now, but Kodak still owns and runs the manufacturing plant that will supply it.

Unless they sub-contract it out to another company.


Steve.

[Sal Santamaura]

Kodak will make it. The UK pension fund may own the film business now, but Kodak still owns and runs the manufacturing plant that will supply it.


Unless they sub-contract it out to another company...Terms of the agreement between Kodak and the Kodak UK Pension Plan have not been disclosed. They may be proprietary and not disclosed even after the deal is consummated around September 1.

Depending on those terms, the new marketing/distribution company may or may not be permitted to sell films not manufactured by Kodak in Rochester's Bldg. 38 under a "Kodak" brand. It may or may not be permitted to use the Harrow plant, which currently makes color paper, to coat films itself and sell those under a "Kodak" brand.

None of the answers to these questions can be discerned at this time by "outsiders" like us. If the agreement terms are not disclosed, we would not find them out unless/until actual non-Rochester "Kodak" film product appeared. Idle speculation will achieve nothing except the dissipation of bandwidth.

In my opinion, the best way those who like and use current Kodak films can proceed is to simply keep buying and using them. If things change in the future, re-evaluate.

[Drew Wiley]

Why on earth would they contract it to another company? That would be simply shooting themselves in the foot. They've already got popular very-high quality
items which would be extremely difficult for anyone else to properly replicate, at least with respect to color films.. And they've got the Kodak branding. But the die
is cast with respect to the new normal of higher sheet film pricing and no more Kodak transparency film. Yet at the same time the new norm of smaller batches and
very versatile rather than redundant films makes their financial sustainability look rather promising. Other than that, the only way you're going to predict anything for
sure is to examine the entrails of an owl.

[Kodachrome25]

Drew, that is the elephant in the room, building 38 is at the moment, not a small run, reduced batch size coating facility as far as I can remember, and I toured it on official business back in 2009. Unless things have been re-tooled, each emulsion type in roll form and then sheet form is coated on mile long 54" wide master rolls with about that much in leader and tail. I'm sure they have been looking at all kinds of ways to rescale according to demand but any and all budget for moving that forward has been tied up in the drama of the past few years.

I highly doubt they would outsource it to another company and it is hard to tell if the Harrow plant is up to the task of coating to the level of the building 38 line, none of us knows. I do know that they often can and do get several expiration dates off of one emulsion number, so those dates are less of an indicator of how often it is coated and more of an indicator of how often they are slitting and packaging off of the one giant master roll.

I am cautiously optimistic we will have the same Kodak quality beyond 2015. In the meantime, I stocked up and now replenish like everything is gong to be fine...

[Drew Wiley]

As I understand it, they've resorted to using their prototyping batch equipment to downsize the runs, and the strategy seems to be working quite well. There's plenty
of talk about this on APUG by those actually familiar with the Bldg 38 facility. But I know the difference between emulsion batches and mere packaging dates. And
the current film lineup does have a strong following, and they are doing runs repeatedly. And we've got to differentiate runs on acetate film like 120, and our own
sheet film estar stock. A bit more complicated issue is the whole real estate and dedicated power plant apparatus there; but apparently that is ironed out too.

[Kodachrome25]

That's interesting news Drew, I did not know about the prototyping equipment factor, I only saw the big boy in Bldg. 38, a cool robotic affair who's mounting points are attached to giant concrete pillars that go straight down to the Rochester bedrock to reduce vibration. I think it is safe to assume that just like the marketing department for film, the coating department has great ideas to properly scale but both have had their hands tied in the C-11 proceedings....now they can move forward.

[Drew Wiley]

The film/coating div that affects us already had a solid jump start, a few months back, I think. What counts now is the legal standing of all the related corp infrastructure getting place into respective stable pigeonholes. I don't try to follow all the little details, just the practical trend. The film quality control seems better
than ever, and the remaining selection is certainly versatile, though I guess we've all lost a favorite product or two along the way. We adapt, as always.

[Kodachrome25]

The film quality control seems better
than ever, and the remaining selection is certainly versatile, though I guess we've all lost a favorite product or two along the way. We adapt, as always.

If the current selection of Kodak film were the only stock I had to choose from and ever will, I would not have a complaint in the world, it's flawless.

[Andrew O'Neill]

If the current selection of Kodak film were the only stock I had to choose from and ever will, I would not have a complaint in the world, it's flawless.

I totally agree with you. I have never once had any issues with their films or papers... only had issues when they discontinued certain products, like 4x5 IR! I hope TMY will be around in all formats, including 8x10. Best film ever.

[Daniel Stone]

I'd still like to get Kodachrome in 120 and/or 220 back... but that's a different animal entirely...

I'm still treasuring my remaining stock of 8x10 E100G... Golly that stuff is good!

[jumanji]

I have bought a box 10 sheets of 810 E100G. Do you have any advice on shooting this film?


I'd still like to get Kodachrome in 120 and/or 220 back... but that's a different animal entirely...

I'm still treasuring my remaining stock of 8x10 E100G... Golly that stuff is good!

[Stephen Willard]

Correct me if I am reading this wrong, but Kodak C41, RA4, and Portra film are still a part of the landscape? This is my dream come true. Even though I have bought a life time supply of Portra 160 VC, I still need to develop the film and make prints. I have been investing in this photographic solution for a long time always nervous that the paper and chemistry will go away.

I will now continue to replenish my lifetime supply of film as I draw from it even thought I do not need to do so, so that I can do my part in supporting the industry. Great news!!!

[Daniel Stone]

I have bought a box 10 sheets of 810 E100G. Do you have any advice on shooting this film?

I generally shoot it at box speed, but depending on how I want to render things, the lighting, etc dictates how I might filter(or not) the lens for particular shot.

-Dan

[Drew Wiley]

Hi Stephen - the nearest thing to Portra 160VC appears to be the new Portra 400. I don't have any experience with it, since I am printing both 160VC and Ektar 100
at the moment. Ektar is nice when you want a little saturation boost, more like the look of a chrome. The 8x10 sheets are better priced than Portra, but you need to
be a little more religious about using warming filters - an 81A for overcast skies, an 81C for deep blue shade under open blues skies (esp in the mtns), and a mild pink
skylight for general distant UV. I've beeen running both Arista RA chem in the CPI and the Kodak RA/RT, and the results are identical. So yeah, everything looks
fine at this point.

[Stephen Willard]

Hey Drew, It makes no difference to me just as long as there is Kodak color negative film to buy, and that my CPI continues to work. A year or so ago I was able to buy another complete CPI system that included a light proof 30x40 drum. My older 30x40 drum was not light proof so I had to run it in the dark.

I did run some test on the Ektar 100, Portra 160 VC, and Portra 160 NC a while back and found that the VC had the greatest dynamic range of 13 stops, Portra 160 NC came in around 11 stops, and Ektar had the least at around 9 stops. The Portra NC was by far the leaset saturated, however, VC and Ektar were very close with the latter having slightly better reds and yellows.

If my memory serves well, I think Ektar had the finest grain of all the films.

Thanks for the tips on the filters, and I am real interested in the Arista RA chemistry. Perhaps you can tell me more about this chemistry and where you can get it.

[Daniel Stone]

Thanks for the tips on the filters, and I am real interested in the Arista RA chemistry. Perhaps you can tell me more about this chemistry and where you can get it.

Stephen,

"Arista" is a house-name for some of Freestyle's in-house products.

here's the search link directly:
http://www.freestylephoto.biz/search?q=ra-4

cheers,
Dan

[Stephen Willard]

Thanks Daniel, I just visited FreesStyle Photo, and I am really encouraged. All these years of living in the shadow of the dark digital cloud. I beginning to see sunlight at the end of a very long dark tunnel.

[Drew Wiley]

Stephen - just don't confuse the Arista mono "room temp" product with the Arista commercial version, which appears to be identical to Kodak RA/RT. I too lucked
out a finally managed to bag a second CPI in very good shape for less than the cost of a replacement gearmotor and control for my older one, which doesn't need
any repair yet after all these years, but I didn't want to get hung out to dry if it did. Ektar is both finer grained than Portra and actually more accurate in terms of
color, provided it is correctly color-balanced to begin with. But it's a little more fussy than Portra in exposure. Don't believe all the web nonsense that the geeks say
about color issues with this film - most of that is an unfortunate accident of all their scanning and digi printing variables that they mess around with when they've
probably incorrectly exposed it to begin with. With CAII paper, either RC or supergloss, it's a marriage made in heaven, and the masking protocol is very similar
to 160VC.

[Stephen Willard]

Drew,

Can you still get parts for the CPI? If so where?

I just purchased three rolls of 40"x160' of CAII, and I really like the paper. It does not crease as easily as the older paper and the images appear to be much crisper. I think I will actually try shooting Ektar 100 to see what it feels like.

[Drew Wiley]

CPI has long been out of business, Stephen, but none of the electrical components were exotic. You can easily get gearmotors and speed controls from some place like Grainger, and any serious electronics hobbyist could probably repair the control panel. The reversible feature is probably not even essential to RA4, though I personally use it; and RA4 isn't anywhere near as fussy about RPM as Ciba was. I'm doing a fair amount of goofing off still, just to see where the comfort zone of these various combinations of new products best resides. Ektar can be over the top sometimes. The high-gloss polyester base version of CAII also has more snap in the extremes than the RC version. I did a 4X enlargement the other nite of a slightly soft 160VC neg with an added weak (.15 Dmax) contrast increase mask, and it sure did resemble a Ciba, esp compared to the older print on the pre-II polyester CA medium. An Ektar neg would have done that directly, without the mask; and some direct sunlight masks seem to need mild contrast reduction masks. But in terms of color accuracy, I have put in a LOT of preliminary
practice, with many thrown out test prints in the learning curve. Some of them ended up as large commercial decor, but not keepers for me. Now all that work is
starting to pay off, at least qualitatively. I'm still a long ways from rebuilding an adequate inventory of 30x40 prints, and am still mostly in the more timid, less
expensive stage of printing 20x24's. I have on hand all three types of CAII paper - the RC glossy, RC matte, and Fujiflex Supergloss - want the right shoe for the
foot, or the anticipated lighting conditions. But that Supergloss.... it's really somethin'