terror suspect database for photographers of "landmarks"

[Donal Taylor]

There is another one of these threads over on photonet

While some aspects of it appear on the surface to eminently sensible, the idea of being entered into a terror suspect database for photographing "landmarks" (and having your pictures checked - guess they've never come across LF film yet...) appals me

"Cracking down on picture-taking at potential terrorist targets

"Individuals seen taking photos of landmarks and other potential targets are not usually arrested (it's not illegal), but U.S. officers check their pictures and enter their names in an interagency record base."

You are being checked and your details recorded. Photographing a "landmark" may well lead to you being catalogued and listed on such a database or terrorist suspects

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:FDFVemuGpsoJ:www.time.com/time/ma gazine/article/subscriber/0,10987,1101040712-660960,00.html+Cracking+d own+on+picture-taking+at+potential+terrorist+targets&hl=en

or http://tinyurl.com/4p5m8

BTW - there is absolutely no intention here to troll - it is, however, starting to get to the point where anyone photographing in a noticeable way - especially on in which the security/police jobsworths are unable to see an obvious reason for ("why exactly DO you photograph power stations, railway stations, shopping malls, suburbs, bridges... there isn't really any "reason" to photograph those things is there - hmmm that's highly suspicious") then you very quickly become a serious suspect.

[Mike Lopez]

If it will get those assholes out from between my camera and my subject, then I'll let them take my name down. Nah, no I wouldn't.

[Joseph McCarthy]

SO what you're saying is that you want to be able to take a picture of a landmark but the landmark can not take a picture of you? That sounds like a pinko commie talking........

[Tom Jones]

Presuming they really do "check the pictures" does that mean they'll do all my developing for me if I confine my photography to potential targets?? I've been thinking I'd like a shot or two of the submarine base in San Diego Bay...

Lets see, if we all ran out and started shooting these things, how long would it be before they ran out of agents and money?

[Charlie Skelton]

Slightly off thread but sort of relevant.

I spent last week in the western islands of Scotland, we visited Islay and at last did a distillery tour. The lad at Bruichladdich told a good story re: US intelligence service, here's a link: http://www.bruichladdich.com/wmd_story.htm

Cheers

Charlie.

[John Cook]

You folks really shouldn’t let your testosterone carry you away. All you need to do is understand how the game is played, and play it.

(1) There are nasty people in the Middle East who want to harm the US because we have been friendly with Israel. Changing the President won’t fix this.

(2) Police work, in between crime sprees, is tedious and boring. I am friends with several policemen and have heard their stories. For entertainment and to relieve their boredom they love to harass, threaten and embarrass people who do stupid and suspicious things. Someone whose car is parked in a bank parking lot at 3am is just begging for this treatment. If it turns out to be a teenybopper with his girlfriend and they’re both naked, you can be sure the officer will unselfishly call for backup. Every member of the night squad will show up, sirens blaring, to join in the fun. And dumping John Ashcroft won’t fix this either.

So if you take pictures of a sensitive site and there is a bored cop within ten miles, he will be delighted to make the most of the opportunity. Go ahead, make his day.

Whenever I want to photograph something sensitive I beforehand identify myself to the local authority, thereby preventing any excuse to interview me while working. They already know I’m coming.

I recently did some pre-dawn photography of Springfield Armory, a Federal site established by President George Washington. All it took was an email to the administrator in advance. When I showed up at the gate at 4am the guards were informed, waiting for me and offered very cordial treatment.

[Calamity Jane]

I'm up here in Canada, one step removed from the "homeland security" issue, but I'm really divided on the "identify yourself" issue.

I am a competative shooter and travel in and out of the U.S. frequently with firearms. Prior to the attack of Sept 11, I had contacted ATF and various other agencies in Washington to see what I could do to "ease border crossings" - you know, check me out in advance, determine I'm not one of the bad guys, and give me something to identify myself when I arrive at the border. ATF did just that. When I arrive at the U.S. border with a case full of guns, my ATF permit, and my Canadian passport, I am thru quicker than anybody else (even quicker than Mom and Pop crossing the line to do a little shopping). Ok, no problem, I am crossing an international border into another country - I expect to have to identify myself and state my business.

On the other, if I were setting up my camera to photograph a public building or facility from a public vantage point, I wouldn't take kindly to someone wanting my ID and questioning what I am doing. That just smacks TOO MUCH of an occupied country or a country run by a dictatorship. It reminds me of Nazi Germany.

[Jim_3565]

"That just smacks TOO MUCH of an occupied country or a country run by a dictatorship. It reminds me of Nazi Germany."

Not yet, but we'll get there. I'd say in 8-10 years.

[adrian tyler]

"...want to harm the US because we have been friendly with Israel."

a new serious hollywood script, right?, still, a change of goverment won't change the education sysem either.

[Neal Shields]

Way pre 9/11 I was coming back into the United States from a business trip. I was tired, the agent was tired and we were both bored.

He typed my name into the computer and did a double take. (I never did see what came up on the screen)

He then asked: "why is your name in my computer".

Very carefully and politely I replied: "I don't know it is your computer".

He then seemed to decide that he didn't think that I was a threat to national security and asked: "have you been crossing the border a lot lately". I said yes and he said to "go on".

Turns out that they keep a list of everyone that comes in and out of the country. Once you hit a certain threshold, you get put on a list.

That doesn't mean that the black helicopters come and take you away in the middle of the night. It is just one of many tools that they use to separate the good guys from the bad.

If I was worried about civil rights, (hey, I am) I would be worried about the fact that it is now illegal for certain groups of people, to criticize politicians, in certain manors, within 60 days of an election. If that isn't the camel's nose under the tent for the first amendment, I don't know what is.

This very forum, if not careful, may violate campaign finance laws in the near future.

Of course if we just stayed on "why did my developer turn brown" we probably wouldn't have to hide under the bed when we heard the whoop whoop whoop of helicopter blades.

[Joseph McCarthy]

"That just smacks TOO MUCH of an occupied country or a country run by a dictatorship. It reminds me of Nazi Germany."

Thats right, we are occupied by the United Nations! UN OUT NOW! The UN does not want you using PYRO! What do you say to that?

FREEDOM!!!!!

Now picutre the scene in Braveheart of Mel Gibson yelling "FREEDOM!"

They will have to pry my dead hands out of my pyro!

[Steve Gangi]

Let me get this right.... If we photograph buildings or landmarks, the "Men in Black" will check our pictures by developing and maybe printing then for us??? COOL!!!!! That means we can all use a lot more 8x10 (and larger) film, and not worry about the cost. The Feds will have to buy the chemicals and do the developing for us. Anyone have an obscenely huge banquet camera lying around? ROFL

[Michael J. Kravit]

Give me a break. These liberal conspiracy mongering, the sky is falling wack jobs will say and do anything to forward their propaganda.

In reality, the fundamentalist bastards want to destroy western civilization. Not just the US, but the UK and yes, even France. Canada, you are not immune either, so wake up and loose the liberal media.

I regularly make pictures of monuments and old buildings. Will I photograph a nuclear power plan? Of course not, and if I did, I would expect to be questioned. How rediculous is this.

Three weeks ago my wife and daughter were in NY City. They went everywhere and photographed whatever they wanted. (Including the Brooklyn Bridge) NO ONE bothered them. I am really amazed with all this propaganda that is being promulgated as urban legend on the web.

When are people going to learn to real reputable sources (ok, I deserve that one, is the NY or LA Times reputable?, well not recently) and open their eyes to reality. I recently heard one very visible preidential candidate say that "this time, we are going to teach the Republicans in Palm Beach County to vote". HELLO! Palm Beach County elections is run by democrats.

As photographers, we need to stop being lemmings and listening to the propaganda. We need to use our intellect and see for ourselves. The US is NOT a repressive dictatorship, I have not lost any freedoms. I welcome the security at the airports and public places, it is there to protect us.

If you go to a Nuclear powerplant and make photographs, be prepared to explain why you did such a dumb thing. Put a smile on your face and be nice, you may be harassed but undertand that you deserve it. Making photos at a nuclear plan in todays world is just plain dumb.

To all the conspiracy mongers out there, get a grip and take a powder. Mix up some fixer and relax.

[ronald lamarsh]

This whole thing is too,too Orwellian! Think about it; why would someone bent on destruction draw undue attention to theirselves by using a large format camera? Duh! We just had an incident here in Seattle where an individual was racially profiled out of a group of whitebread tourists happliy snapping pictures of a public site. The fact of the matter is those who would be suspicious of you are not thinking. The fact that the person is out there in broad daylight photographing in the most conspicious manner possible doesn't even draw a second thought!

[Mike Cockerham]

When did "whitebread" become a race?

Mike