Trouble with XTOL

[Gudmundur Ingolfsson]

I used XTOL for the first time last week. I used it straight to process TMX, TMY2 and HP5+. The TMX was in 4x5" format developed in a Combi-Plan with the dip and dunk method presoak first. Those sheets turned out fine. The TMY2 and HP5+ were in 120 format and they might have had somewhat less an agitation (Those also got a 2 min.presoak and a dip and dunk ) but those roll film negatives had tiny spots of low densities that show up as black spots when I make big scans or prints. What am I doing wrong ? I was careful with dissolving the developer, maybe using it straight causes the problem. Since 15 years I have used TMAX RS developer with excellent results but that in not available in Europe any more thanks to big yellow brother.

[Andrew O'Neill]

I could have been the result of not enough agitation. Both of those films, especially TMY2 needs vigorous agitation at the start. HP5 5 sec every minute is fine, TMY2 5 sec every 30sec... at least that's how I do roll film. I use BTZS tubes for sheet film versions.
Have you ever tried Xtol 1+1? Works beautifully with these films.

[ROL]

I don't understand. You developed roll film in a combi plan?

[Eric Biggerstaff]

Air bells maybe?

[Gudmundur Ingolfsson]

ROL! Combi-Plan is a developing thank. Until recently it was made in Sweden. I bought mine from B&H. Can be used as a daylight tank but I use mine in the dark and agitate by lifting the insert out of the liquid.

[RMiksell]

Have you considered using Xtol replenished? I've been using it for the past year in 8x10 tanks and it works great. I use the 1+1 times from the Massive Dev Chart at digitaltruth.com. I only shoot 4x5 and 8x10 so I don't have experience with 120 rolls and I do not pre-soak. For agitation I life the film hanger completely out of the developer, tilt to drain, immerse in the developer, remove and drain the other direction. I agitate twice the first minute and once each minute after that. Good luck.

[Kevin Crisp]

I haven't looked in some time but my memory is that the Kodak publication calls for unusually vigorous agitation. Constant tray agitation for sheet film, 10 seconds of agitation a minute with a tank and roll film.

[tgtaylor]

See Post # 9: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?105078-Problem-with-Ekfe-IR820

Thomas

[ROL]

Yes, Gudmundur, I am familiar with the combo plan tank, I just wasn't aware of its general use for 120 rolls. That's why I asked. I could only suppose that the dip 'n dunk "agitation" used with this tank could be part of the problem. I'm a little confused as to why the Combi was used in preference to a Hewes style tank and reel. Full inversions are de rigueur and easily accomplished in small tanks for roll film. Be that as it may, I believe most roll film manufacturers do not recommend presoaks. I presoak 120 for only 30 seconds, just enough to wet the film prior to developer (sheet film 2 1/2 minutes, always). XTOL is a very robust and forgiving general developer, so I wouldn't imagine a lengthy presoak would be of great concern, but there you go.


From Kodak Pub. F-4016 Kodak Professional TMAX Films, XTOL (1:1), TMAX, D-76, etc.:


Large Tanks (1/2 to 3 1/2 gallon), Rolls & Sheets: agitate continuously for first 15 to 30 seconds by raising an lowering. Do not agitate for remainder of first minute. Then, once per minute, lifting out of developer, tilting 30 degrees, draining 5 - 10 sec. and re-immersing. Alternate direction of tilt. (:eek:, sounds pretty specific to me).

Small Tanks (8 or 16 oz., as above), Rolls: Initial agitation of 5 to 7 inversion cycles in 5 sec., repeat at 30 sec. intervals.



ROL! Combi-Plan is a developing thank.

Really, no developing thanks are necessary.

[spacegoose]

I've only used XTOL once or twice but also had unsatisfactory results, probably from not using it properly, though I also think it produces unattractive grain (based on lab development with XTOL).

Not fun to mix either.

TMAX-RS is nice, and so is D76 1:1, which is my all time favorite. I think it would be great for each film you mentioned. If you can't find it, ID11 is supposedly very similar.

On the other hand, developing roll film in a Combi-Plan is perhaps tempting fate.

[Ian Gordon Bilson]

Xtol - hard to mix?
I would like to know how the OP develops 120 in a Combiplan..
Ilford do not recommend presoaking.

[Gudmundur Ingolfsson]

Hi, you guys pleas read my orginal post. In it I said I had been developing a 4x5" TMX in a Combi-Plan !
I have been processing my own film since 50 years. I am interested in your experience wit XTOL.

[Ian Gordon Bilson]

The responses you get are based on the quality of your question.
What method/tank you use for 120 film is for you to describe.
I would say you have "Air-Bells" , where bubbles of air form on the film surface during development.
This is a failure in your technique,not the developer chemistry used.

[Cor]

With Xtol I ran in a problem the last years that it throws out a white precipitate although I use very pure water to mix it, and store it in fully filled glass bottles at 15 degC. Since than I read that other people had the same problems. So I now filter the developer over a coffee filter before using it. But I am still slightly annoyed by it: something is falling out of solution, which in my opinion should stay in solution. OTOH my Xtol works as expected and has never failed.

I guess this is not much of a help, if the developer was mixed fresh there is no precipitation, and if it would stick to the film (unlikely) it would have an irregular shape. My vote would go to air-bubbles too, did you pre-rinse ?

best,

Cor

[Larry Gebhardt]

Another vote for Air Bells due to inadequate agitation. Some developers seem to develop them more than others. A couple of sharp raps on the bottom of the tank helps to dislodge them. That's one reason I prefer stainless steel tanks now; I have a fear of cracking the Combi Plan or plastic roll-film tanks.