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Randy Moe
30-May-2013, 15:34
A friend lost his job.

Cell phone reporters now...

Sal Santamaura
30-May-2013, 17:32
I am frequently ashamed to have retired from a long electrical engineering career. This is one of those times. It's "change," not "progress." :o

welly
30-May-2013, 17:40
More information about this here:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/breaking/chi-chicago-sun-times-photo-20130530,0,4361142.story

Randy Moe
30-May-2013, 17:44
I was made redundant at age 58 after a 30 year automotive engine dynamometer testing career. I miss the roar of the grease...


I am frequently ashamed to have retired from a long electrical engineering career. This is one of those times. It's "change," not "progress." :o

dtheld
30-May-2013, 22:42
Weegee is turning over in his grave.

rdenney
31-May-2013, 05:52
More information about this here:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/breaking/chi-chicago-sun-times-photo-20130530,0,4361142.story

It was twisting the knife to state, as the excuse for this action, that they need video more than still photos, and then decorate this story with video rather than writing.

I, for one, nearly never view videos for news. It's too slow. I can read whole articles in the two minutes it takes to listen to people read their quotes to me, rather than reading them for myself. I'm sure there were quotes from photographers and from the "man on the street" in that video I did not watch, and it was lazy to throw in a video rather than editing those down and making some sense of them.

So, the Trib is going to compete with television news now. Great.

Rick "sigh." Denney

Sal Santamaura
31-May-2013, 07:11
...I, for one, nearly never view videos for news...For me, drop the "nearly." Even local rags have started thinking their on-line editions must include such time-wasting segments. I'll stop visiting those sites if real reporting is abandoned.

Sal "thinking the masses want these shiny objects and 'news' companies won't miss Rick or me" Santamaura

Kirk Gittings
31-May-2013, 07:25
None of the rest of the staff called for a strike or any action in support of the laid off photographers.

They will pay for their cowardice when no one supports them as the paper moves to 'citizen journalists' in its quest for mediocrity.

like

cps
31-May-2013, 07:29
Ugh. It's sad to watch the great old newspapers march their way straight to mediocrity. But, I guess our mere presence on this forum probably suggests we are not representative of the typical readership.

The CT article page clearly illustrates what I hate about newspaper video so much - you get blasted with 15 seconds of LOUD commercial without being asked if you even wanted to watch the video in the first place. The other day I was linked to some interesting looking weather-related video by the Washington Post. I gave up after a few minutes after having to sit through 15 seconds of the exact same commercial multiple times just to watch a couple of 30 second snippets of video. TV commercials were bad enough, but this is ridiculous. I have better things to do with my time.

I think this also clearly explains why they want more of that video content - it probably means more ad revenue.

Chris

Jac@stafford.net
31-May-2013, 07:29
Sad. That's the company that gave my start in news photography over 40 years ago.

I hate video news especially when it is just TV anchors at their desk. It is especially difficult without captions, and when they exist, the captions are bad.

Kirk Gittings
31-May-2013, 07:47
I know a lot of people still in the business. Basically they are at a loss about how to save the newspaper industry and are flailing around just trying stuff.

Peter Gomena
31-May-2013, 08:40
Let's face it, newspapers are last-century technology. It's hard to justify a prepress staff, printing staff and press, and petroleum-fueled distribution networks in these times. The daily newspaper here is getting thinner and smaller all the time. Like many here, I started my career in newspapers and respect the print media for in-depth reporting. I'm not sure where I'm going to find real news in the growing world of infotainment.

I, too, hate video clips with embedded ads, and I don't like going on-line to get news. Too much crap to wade through to get 5 seconds of information.

Mark Sawyer
31-May-2013, 10:20
I hate video news especially when it is just TV anchors at their desk...

...which is what local television news is more and more. Fewer reporters on staff to go out in the field, and the reporters are their own crew, just put a little video camera on a tripod, film themselves, edit the video on a laptop, and send it back to the station. Here in Tucson, stations hire part-time reporters because it looks too weird having all four nightly field reports come from the same reporter.

The Information Age eats its own...

Jody_S
31-May-2013, 10:28
I guess from now on it's (bad phone video) of someone who just (saw/survived/was related to someone/no connection at all to) + (some horrible event) + (some bobblehead at a desk providing mandatory expression of disbelief) = 'news'.

BrianShaw
31-May-2013, 10:31
I, too, hate video clips with embedded ads, and I don't like going on-line to get news. Too much crap to wade through to get 5 seconds of information.

I had this conversation recently with a Wall Street Journal customer service rep who called to chastize me for not making maximum use of my subscription by also registering for the on-line service. She seemed to understand when I told her that I like sitting in an easy chair with a cup of coffee and the paper rather than staring at a computer screen to get the news. But in the end her attitude was sort of "well good luck with that".

Randy Moe
31-May-2013, 11:01
I also prefer a print paper and magazine.

I cannot get newspapers as they are stolen before I get them, inner city Chicago.

One of my paid in advance for 2 years mags, Time Out Chicago, just cancelled print without refund.

I have changed my computer station to a stand up set up in the center of my darkroom/loft so I can walk by and check in without sitting.

Next is a throne room screen for what used to be magazine time...

paulr
31-May-2013, 12:39
Let's face it, newspapers are last-century technology. It's hard to justify a prepress staff, printing staff and press, and petroleum-fueled distribution networks in these times. The daily newspaper here is getting thinner and smaller all the time. Like many here, I started my career in newspapers and respect the print media for in-depth reporting. I'm not sure where I'm going to find real news in the growing world of infotainment.

The change in media and the change in quality may be related economically, but they're not the same thing. Move from paper to digital has no implicit effect on the quality of content or editing. The problem is that the ubiquity of digital information sources makes it hard to get paid for content.

The photography staff getting laid off is is just an extreme version of what's been happening for years now to writers. As bad as disenfranchisement of real photographers may be, I think writers are much more important to the news. I'd rather have a story written by a real journalist and illustrated by iphone pic than the reverse situation.

The Sun Times has been a crappy paper for a long time now. I don't get the impression it ever recovered from the Murdoch days. The trouble is that the same pressures are being faced even by the remaining good papers.

Richard Wasserman
31-May-2013, 14:12
Alex Garcia, a PJ at the Chicago Tribune— http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/assignment-chicago/2013/05/the-idiocy-of-eliminating-a-photo-staff.html

Brian Ellis
1-Jun-2013, 07:20
I suppose the next step is to fire all the reporters and ask for volunteers from high school newspapers. A better move would be to fire all the executives and re-hire the photographers and reporters.

Until moving here for family reasons I lived in Bend, Oregon, a town of about 75,000 people. The newspaper there had like 6 professional photographers (some were full-time, not sure all of them were, I know they had a full-time photo editor) and the paper seemed to be doing fine from what little I could tell by reading it.

I'd hate to lose all newspapers, something about having that first cup of coffee while reading from my computer monitor just isn't quite the same.

hoffner
1-Jun-2013, 07:33
[QUOTE=cps;1032564 -
I think this also clearly explains why they want more of that video content - it probably means more ad revenue.

Chris[/QUOTE]

You got it.

jnanian
1-Jun-2013, 07:35
hi randy

i worked for a newspaper many years ago
and in the 90s they got rid of their staff photographers
and just gave the reporters a point and shoot cameras.
this sounds about the same.

Randy Moe
1-Jun-2013, 08:57
Maybe it's a Chicago thing. This old time favorite Loop restaurant did the same thing a few years ago. Got rid of the Union by tricks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Berghoff_(restaurant)

I will never eat there again.



Alex Garcia, a PJ at the Chicago Tribune— http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/assignment-chicago/2013/05/the-idiocy-of-eliminating-a-photo-staff.html

Greg Miller
1-Jun-2013, 11:03
Thom Hogan has an interesting read on this and the newspaper industry as a whole: http://www.bythom.com/index.htm

Jac@stafford.net
1-Jun-2013, 12:23
It might be worthwhile noting that Birkshire Hathaway's media branch is hot on buying newspapers (http://jimromenesko.com/2013/03/01/i-love-newspapers-warren-buffett-tells-shareholders/) under the right circumstances. The long article linked above has a clue as to what Warren Bufett means when he says that papers are a good investment even while the Internet influences a financial downturn when he stated: "Newspapers continue to reign supreme, however, in the delivery of local news. If you want to know what’s going on in your town – whether the news is about the mayor or taxes or high school football – there is no substitute for a local newspaper that is doing its job."

Local papers run properly. I was a staff news photographer during the terrible years of the Seventies when newspapers were in dire shape. I worked for four, and was director of photography at another. We made money when the Sun Times / Daily News was losing. We did it by having a heavy concentration upon local events with lots of photos, usually a picture page per issue (they were daily papers.) Funny, but our staff photographers went on to very good careers. One to National Geographic, another to win three Pulitzers, myself to magazine work...

Local! The Sun Times has local papers but ... but what? A shitty paper? Competing against themselves with smaller papers? It is not all about the Internet.

Randy Moe
1-Jun-2013, 12:28
I am finding http://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/ has very useful LOCAL news for me. Heck, they even interviewed me recently, but I did not make the cut.

And, whenever I comment, as I often do, it gets pasted right into FB for my friends to view.

NickyLai
7-Jun-2013, 19:37
A good read on NPR website:

Photo Staff Firings Won't Shake Pulitzer Winner's Focus
link: http://www.npr.org/blogs/pictureshow/2013/06/07/189533880/photo-staff-firings-wont-shake-pulitzer-winners-focus?ft=1&f=97635953&sc=tw&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

ArthurBlack
8-Jun-2013, 03:55
When I want to see cops spray pepper spray into the faces of little girls, I looked for cell phone videos, and found them.

When I wanted to watch the Boston Bombings, I looked for cell phone videos and found them.

When I wanted to see a British soldier being cut to pieces by Islamists, I looks for cell phone videos.

When I wanted real images of the Syrian civil war, I looked at the candid photos of a Japanese Trucker War Tourist.

Mainstream media offers me nothing in terms of breaking news. Commentary and opinion, yes. Not news, media can't compete with actually being there. In every case mentioned, there were no photojournalists there to get the content. They just can't get it or don't get it(in the OccupyWhatever cases). And I can't watch bobbleheads, for at least 10 years now; they talk to 6 year olds now and I just get nothing from them but elevated anger(some people are more tolerant of being talked down to and insulted like that).

Jody_S
8-Jun-2013, 06:07
Mainstream media offers me nothing in terms of breaking news.

What is missing is investigative journalism. Yes, we hear all about bombings and such. But have you seen an in-depth report of the various factions involved in Syria, for example? We are left to scrounge for sources on the 'net, not knowing if we're reading a reasonably impartial assessment or someone's paid propaganda, or even gibberish someone wrote up in their underwear surrounded by empty pizza boxes, having no knowledge of the subject.

Randy Moe
8-Jun-2013, 08:00
All you say is very true.



When I want to see cops spray pepper spray into the faces of little girls, I looked for cell phone videos, and found them.

When I wanted to watch the Boston Bombings, I looked for cell phone videos and found them.

When I wanted to see a British soldier being cut to pieces by Islamists, I looks for cell phone videos.

When I wanted real images of the Syrian civil war, I looked at the candid photos of a Japanese Trucker War Tourist.

Mainstream media offers me nothing in terms of breaking news. Commentary and opinion, yes. Not news, media can't compete with actually being there. In every case mentioned, there were no photojournalists there to get the content. They just can't get it or don't get it(in the OccupyWhatever cases). And I can't watch bobbleheads, for at least 10 years now; they talk to 6 year olds now and I just get nothing from them but elevated anger(some people are more tolerant of being talked down to and insulted like that).

ArthurBlack
9-Jun-2013, 16:28
What is missing is investigative journalism. Yes, we hear all about bombings and such. But have you seen an in-depth report of the various factions involved in Syria, for example? We are left to scrounge for sources on the 'net, not knowing if we're reading a reasonably impartial assessment or someone's paid propaganda, or even gibberish someone wrote up in their underwear surrounded by empty pizza boxes, having no knowledge of the subject.

Pizza boxes?

If you've not already seen it, I suggest watching "Shooting Robert King". Pizza boxes are the least of the worries.

Anyway...
There is nothing to force the void on real Syrian news. If a trucker amateur from Japan can 'report' on the Syrian Civil War, then so could real photojournalists(if they wanted to). When I get my media outlet 'news', it's usually reading Huffpost(which is just a blog), CNN, and AP feeds; and I get more photos and videos from Toshifumi Fujimoto FB posts in a day than I have from them since January combined.

On the otherhand,
If you're saying that I need bobbleheads to analyze and tell me what to think, this opinion is wrong.

I can't really remember the last example of investigative journalism(besides maybe Wikileaks). Most sanctioned stories for the last decade seems to be written with a script, written by some government or corporate official. Can you give an example of one that's not, it might remind me.

Jody_S
9-Jun-2013, 17:47
Pizza boxes?

If you've not already seen it, I suggest watching "Shooting Robert King". Pizza boxes are the least of the worries.



I didn't want to get political, as I've had quite a few of my posts deleted by the mods here. I thought 'pizza boxes & underwear' was safe.

BTW, I've participated daily on a number of Internet forums for more than 10 years, this is the only forum where I've ever had a post deleted, much less a dozen. I find that a little odd, given that I have never once attacked someone, participated in a pie fight, or deliberately brought up a forbidden topic for serious discussion.

Mark Sawyer
22-Jun-2013, 12:34
Maybe they can get rid of all the reporters too, and just ask people to twitter them if anything happens...

JMB
23-Jun-2013, 01:17
I didn't want to get political, as I've had quite a few of my posts deleted by the mods here. I thought 'pizza boxes & underwear' was safe.

BTW, I've participated daily on a number of Internet forums for more than 10 years, this is the only forum where I've ever had a post deleted, much less a dozen. I find that a little odd, given that I have never once attacked someone, participated in a pie fight, or deliberately brought up a forbidden topic for serious discussion.


The relationship between politics and photography is obvious; hence it seems critical to the relevance, intellectual health, and impact of the forum that we encourage political discussion rather than discourage it.

Sal Santamaura
23-Jun-2013, 07:59
The relationship between politics and photography is obvious; hence it seems critical to the relevance, intellectual health, and impact of the forum that we encourage political discussion rather than discourage it.Except that political discussion isn't discouraged on this forum, it's expressly prohibited.

I'd caution anyone who's thinking of taking your encouragement not to. Those who don't follow the rules get deleted/banned.

Randy Moe
23-Jun-2013, 08:26
All art is political, even images of blank walls.

However, context is king.

Brian Ellis
30-Jun-2013, 16:46
Newspapers are generally focused on today's news, not often the kind of in-depth story you're talking about. For that we used to go to magazines and books (and some still do).

ederphoto
3-Jul-2013, 14:31
This is KARMA big time !!! First Kodak developed digital cameras ( shot themselves in the foot !) .After that ,most news and sports photographers started using digital cameras , ( if you search online you will end up find a prediction i made about 10 years ago that they would loose their jobs ) .Soon the sports photographers will loose theirs ,due to the fact that soon magazines and papers will get their prints from the game broadcasters ( High definition recording can be stopped at any frame of any action at any time , the image can be saved and sold online , just wait and see ...)The wedding photographers will be in trouble as well . I've seen many wedding photographers teaching workshops ,this is the beginning of the end .In the area where i am, Boston , i've seen people shooting weddings for $350.00 and delivering the photos on cds .Now that 18 megapixel cameras can be purchased for less than $700.00 and most people share their pictures online anyways and even more on their Iphones that, believe or not, makes any crap picture look good ,we will see the demand for high price photographers to drop like lead in water .And there's more ... the digital curse continues , i will go even far by making a bold prediction here ," even nikon and canon will pay a high price for their quest for the best digital camera ".As the quest for high pixels continues , cell phones are also getting better and better with some apps that complete whatever it lacks .My cell phone does almost everything i need except pizza ,but it tells me where to go to get one . In a few years , cell phones will replace DSLR and if Canon and Nikon don't start developing their phones they will be following the footsteps of Kodak . Remember , you heard it first from me !!!
By Edersandro Lopes

Greg Miller
3-Jul-2013, 17:03
Does your cell phone decide where to stand, where to point the camera, and when to press the shutter?

And stills from video rarely works without careful planning and full control overt he action. The shutter speed for video is typically 1/50 or 1/60 - way to slow for sports action. Most stills form video that you see are where the producer has total control over the motion and can slow things down enough to work at 1//50 shutter speed.

ederphoto
3-Jul-2013, 22:03
Does your cell phone decide where to stand, where to point the camera, and when to press the shutter?

And stills from video rarely works without careful planning and full control overt he action. The shutter speed for video is typically 1/50 or 1/60 - way to slow for sports action. Most stills form video that you see are where the producer has total control over the motion and can slow things down enough to work at 1//50 shutter speed.

Neither does your 35mm ,6x7,4x5,5x7 ,8x10 decides where to stand , where to point and when to press the shutter ! Guess the field in these areas are already leveled ! I guess you missed my point completely , just wait and you shall see ! No offense but when you say a shutter speed for a video is 1/50 or 1/60 you thinking 1980's . If you are into shooting sports for a living , save as much money as you can , sports photographers still have a few years ahead of them before they become obsolete just like the newspapers photographers .The concept of "Frame Grabbing" from video is old , sports photographers have been doing it since motor drive but, now with digital hd high speed video recording and cameras like RED ONE ... just wait and see .The picture bellow was taken from a video .Not perfect ,but we have to start somewhere .

Randy Moe
3-Jul-2013, 22:20
So glad to be an avid hobbyist photographer and retired.

At first I was pissed to put out to pasture early, at age 58, but now at 62, I'm more than happy just f***ing around.

I have no idea, how people work and have fun.

Michael E
4-Jul-2013, 03:34
After that ,most news and sports photographers started using digital cameras , ( if you search online you will end up find a prediction i made about 10 years ago that they would loose their jobs ) .

Really? And if they kept working on film, schlepping their exposed rolls to a lab, spending time and money on scanning, they would keep their jobs? I don't think so. This is not a question of camera technology, this is a question of money. It would have been possible to replace Margaret Bourke-White with a noob with a box camera. But back then people actually PAID for magazines, they actually put MONEY down to subscribe to a newspaper. How do you pay for photographers (or HD video camera people) if everybody expects to get their news for free?

But, on the other hand, how do you expect people to pay for your product if it is not made by professionals?

Michael

jonreid
4-Jul-2013, 04:07
When I wanted to watch the Boston Bombings, I looked for cell phone videos and found them.

When I wanted real images of the Syrian civil war, I looked at the candid photos of a Japanese Trucker War Tourist.
Joking right? There were heaps of pro photographers that covered the Boston bombings, you can see them running in right after the blast, and I think their images will stand the test of time better than the grainy security cam footage.
Likewise, there are dedicated pros risking all to bring coverage out of Syria. Buy a good newspaper Nd you might even see some of their work.

Jon

Greg Miller
4-Jul-2013, 04:50
Neither does your 35mm ,6x7,4x5,5x7 ,8x10 decides where to stand , where to point and when to press the shutter ! Guess the field in these areas are already leveled ! I guess you missed my point completely , just wait and you shall see ! No offense but when you say a shutter speed for a video is 1/50 or 1/60 you thinking 1980's . If you are into shooting sports for a living , save as much money as you can , sports photographers still have a few years ahead of them before they become obsolete just like the newspapers photographers .The concept of "Frame Grabbing" from video is old , sports photographers have been doing it since motor drive but, now with digital hd high speed video recording and cameras like RED ONE ... just wait and see .The picture bellow was taken from a video .Not perfect ,but we have to start somewhere .


If you think that all thee is to being a photographer is enough megapixels, being in focus and exposed well, then yes you should worry about cell phones. The real threat to professional photographers has not been cell phones, or digital technology. It has been the economy and the internet. Lower advertising budgets and alternative news sources (whether you like them or not) have led to newspapers and magazines to go out of business or tighten their own budgets. So the money to pay professional photographers is severely constrained. You can bet that if the CST was thriving financially there would be no layoffs. Arming reporters with iPhones just happens to be the least unattractive solution to their financial problems. If digital cameras did not exist, then they would be arming reporters with Kodak 110 instamatics.

There is a reason that video is shot at 1/50. Most video in the US is played at a frame rate of 24 FPS )or sometimes 30 FPS). People have figured out that the optimal shutter speed (shutter angle) is FPS x 2. Faster or slower than that and the video does not look natural. So your reference to the 1980's shows you don't know what you are talking about regarding history or the present, so maybe predicting the future is a reach.

Pat Kearns
4-Jul-2013, 11:31
I'd hate to lose all newspapers, something about having that first cup of coffee while reading from my computer monitor just isn't quite the same.[/QUOTE]

Brian, the newspaper in Mobile, AL now has it's print edition only 3 days a week, Sunday, Wednesday, & Friday. It's pretty sad having that cup of coffee with 3 day old news.

ederphoto
4-Jul-2013, 11:51
If you think that all thee is to being a photographer is enough megapixels, being in focus and exposed well, then yes you should worry about cell phones. The real threat to professional photographers has not been cell phones, or digital technology. It has been the economy and the internet. Lower advertising budgets and alternative news sources (whether you like them or not) have led to newspapers and magazines to go out of business or tighten their own budgets. So the money to pay professional photographers is severely constrained. You can bet that if the CST was thriving financially there would be no layoffs. Arming reporters with iPhones just happens to be the least unattractive solution to their financial problems. If digital cameras did not exist, then they would be arming reporters with Kodak 110 instamatics.

There is a reason that video is shot at 1/50. Most video in the US is played at a frame rate of 24 FPS )or sometimes 30 FPS). People have figured out that the optimal shutter speed (shutter angle) is FPS x 2. Faster or slower than that and the video does not look natural. So your reference to the 1980's shows you don't know what you are talking about regarding history or the present, so maybe predicting the future is a reach.

If you think the real threat to photographers is the economy and the internet ,well , the economy is getting better does that means they will keep their jobs ???How does the internet poses a threat to professional photographers ??? Isn't in the internet and social media where we get to reach otherwise un-reachable audiences ???Isn't in the internet where we get free advertising globally ??? As for the whole 24fps or 30fps , you can skip it . As for the " So your reference to the 1980's shows you don't know what you are talking about regarding history or the present, so maybe predicting the future is a reach " , well, I've shot professional super 16 and i've shot with high speed cameras as well and i know what i'm talking about .And for the
" Maybe predicting the future is a reach " , well , i'm yet to make a wrong prediction in this field ! You are free to believe whatever you want ,but , time will tell who is right .Unless this thread is deleted , every word will remain here for all to see !

Greg Miller
4-Jul-2013, 12:18
If you think the real threat to photographers is the economy and the internet ,well , the economy is getting better does that means they will keep their jobs ???How does the internet poses a threat to professional photographers ??? Isn't in the internet and social media where we get to reach otherwise un-reachable audiences ???Isn't in the internet where we get free advertising globally ??? As for the whole 24fps or 30fps , you can skip it . As for the " So your reference to the 1980's shows you don't know what you are talking about regarding history or the present, so maybe predicting the future is a reach " , well, I've shot professional super 16 and i've shot with high speed cameras as well and i know what i'm talking about .And for the
" Maybe predicting the future is a reach " , well , i'm yet to make a wrong prediction in this field ! You are free to believe whatever you want ,but , time will tell who is right .Unless this thread is deleted , every word will remain here for all to see !

The economy is fractionally better, and the internet is healthy as always. My comment was in regards to professional journalistic photographers, such as those at the Chicago Sun Times. The advertising dollars have dried up. Magazines and newspapers have closed shop. So less work for the same number of photographers. Because people consume their news differently theses days; not because of cell phones. Newspapers and Magazines used photos to sell copies from the newsstand. That doesn't happen any more. Your premise that cell phones as cameras will put photographers out of work, only makes sense if you believe that doing high end work is a matter of letting the camera do all the work. As I mentioned before, the cell phone does not decide where to stand, where to point the camera, and when to press the shutter. Photographers do that, and good photographers do it better than the average Joe.

And how do you skip 24 & 30 FPS? That is still how 99.999% of video is still played today in the US. The Red One is not a High Frame Rate camera (although Red has higher frame rate camera where the high frame rates are used for niche purposes). It is a high res camera that still uses 24 FPS. The Hobbit was shot at 48 FPS and half the people who saw the move complained of headaches after watching it. At 48 FPS their shutter speeds were likely 1/100. Still far shy of the 1/1000 and faster shutter speeds that professional sports photographers typically strive for. And which photo editors have time to watch thousands of frames to pull out a single still? That just is not an efficient workflow.

How does your prediction from 2008 still sound? "I don't know what will become of Nikon and Cannon if they don't start making cell phones pretty soon ! (http://photo.net/large-format-photography-forum/00PV9n)" Any sign of Nikon and Canon making cell phones or going out of business? Cameras such as the D800 and 5D MIII, both higher end DSLRs, were both huge hits despite the presence of cell phones.

Jim Jones
5-Jul-2013, 16:09
We've progressed from news imagery being presented as laboriously produced wood engravings, and words from being transmitted by well-trained telegraphers to Teletypes to cell phones. It doesn't take a Eugene Smith to make photographs fine enough to satisfy people whose appreciation of photography is formed by Facebook.

ederphoto
11-Jul-2013, 19:48
This is a reply to GREG MILLER :

Haha ! So i don't know the field i'm in ??? And i can't predict the future ??? Too much for you maybe ! Here is a quote from you on July 4th :

" How does your prediction from 2008 still sound? "I don't know what will become of Nikon and Cannon if they don't start making cell phones pretty soon !" Any sign of Nikon and Canon making cell phones or going out of business? Cameras such as the D800 and 5D MIII, both higher end DSLRs, were both huge hits despite the presence of cell phones. "

Now here is a quote from Nikon's CEO on July 7th :

“The number of people taking snapshots is exploding by use of smartphones that sold 750 million or so last year and are still growing. We’ve centralized our ideas around cameras but can change our approach to offer products to that bigger market.”

Don't believe me ? You don't have to ! Read the article from July 7th from Nikon Rumors :

NikonRumors.com: http://nikonrumors.com/2013/07/07/nikon-working-on-a-secret-product-smart-phone.aspx/#ixzz2Ynch1lOr

Well , when i said time would tell who was right i expected it would take about a year or two not 3 days ,but hey , nobody is perfect ! Keep living on your bubble !

ederphoto
11-Jul-2013, 19:53
By the way , i don't know anybody at Nikon or Nikon rumors or have ever written anything for them .So how is my prediction from 2008 still sound ??? Pretty good is my answer !

Randy Moe
11-Jul-2013, 20:30
http://conversations.nokia.com/2013/07/11/nokia-lumia-1020-the-smartphone-camera-revolution-begins/

Greg Miller
12-Jul-2013, 04:12
This is a reply to GREG MILLER :

Haha ! So i don't know the field i'm in ??? And i can't predict the future ??? Too much for you maybe ! Here is a quote from you on July 4th :

" How does your prediction from 2008 still sound? "I don't know what will become of Nikon and Cannon if they don't start making cell phones pretty soon !" Any sign of Nikon and Canon making cell phones or going out of business? Cameras such as the D800 and 5D MIII, both higher end DSLRs, were both huge hits despite the presence of cell phones. "

Now here is a quote from Nikon's CEO on July 7th :

“The number of people taking snapshots is exploding by use of smartphones that sold 750 million or so last year and are still growing. We’ve centralized our ideas around cameras but can change our approach to offer products to that bigger market.”

Don't believe me ? You don't have to ! Read the article from July 7th from Nikon Rumors :

NikonRumors.com: http://nikonrumors.com/2013/07/07/nikon-working-on-a-secret-product-smart-phone.aspx/#ixzz2Ynch1lOr

Well , when i said time would tell who was right i expected it would take about a year or two not 3 days ,but hey , nobody is perfect ! Keep living on your bubble !

Nice try. 5 years later and there is a rumor that Nikon might male smart phones. That's a stretch to get from "I don't know what will become of Nikon and Cannon if they don't start making cell phones pretty soon" to 5 years later that Nikon "might" be looking at taking a market opportunity by dabbling in smart phones. I'm not saying they won't, but it hardly is a move of desperation that you implied.

ederphoto
12-Jul-2013, 04:36
Keep living on your bubble ! Some people never learn ...

Greg Miller
12-Jul-2013, 04:51
And let's take a look at some real numbers, to see how not having a camera phone has hurt Nikon. As of March 2013, Nikon reported a 4.2% net profit margin before taxes for their 1 st half of their fiscal year. Additionally they project increasing overall sales by 29% and profits by 159% in the next 3 three years.

And this from Nikon (emphasis mine):

Q1:What were the business results and principal activities in the Imaging Company for the first half of the year ending March 2013?

A1:

In the Imaging Products market, the digital camera—interchangeable lens type market expanded, while the compact digital camera market shrank. In these circumstances, with regard to digital camera—interchangeable lens type, sales of digital single-lens reflex (SLR) cameras continued to grow, while the Nikon 1 brand, an advanced camera—interchangeable lens type, also continued to show solid performance.

In the compact digital camera market, sales volume of the 42x super-telephoto zoom model COOLPIX P510 and the slim, 18x optical zoom model COOLPIX S9300 showed favorable performance, resulting in a year-on-year increase in sales despite of market contraction. Sales volume of interchangeable camera lenses, high-priced camera lenses in particular, climbed steadily thanks to an expansion in sales of digital camera―interchangeable lens type.

As a result, net sales for the Imaging Products Business increased by 17.4% year on year to 381,071 million yen, marking a record high for half-year sales, as sales volume of digital camera―interchangeable lens type, compact digital cameras, and interchangeable camera lenses hit record highs for the first half of the year. However, operating income decreased by 11.8% year on year to 41,807 million yen, due to the impact of exchange rates, etc.

Greg Miller
12-Jul-2013, 06:23
By the way , i don't know anybody at Nikon or Nikon rumors or have ever written anything for them .So how is my prediction from 2008 still sound ??? Pretty good is my answer !

C'mon man, you have to do better than that. 5 years later Nikon says they might have a smart phone in another 5 years. Your prediction implied the demise of Nikon & Canon if they did not have a camera phone "soon". So 5 years later Nikon remains very profitable and a growth company, and Canon is cranking out cinematic DSR's. Neither has a smart phone, and there's a rumor that Nikon might make a camera phone in another 5 years as a growth product (not to save their ass). Any dufus could predict that either company might get into the market. But that's not what you predicted.

Here is what Thom Hogan (the go to guy for all things Nikon) had the say about this:
"We're probably talking about the need for a ten billion dollar plus business here. Something that would replace 10m Coolpix or more. I just don't see them being able to do that in smartphones.

I agree that Nikon hasn't a chance against Apple and Samsung at the moment, and both those companies shouldn't be counted out when it comes to camera abilities, either. The problem for Nikon selling a cell phone would be the same problem that even Samsung had with the Android-based cameras: you're at the whims of the service providers. You don't have strong control over pricing, you don't control data plans, the service providers want to put their software on your device, and much more.

The good news for Nikon is that smartphones are going bigger sensor (as large as 1/2.3" in the coming iterations) and more complex. Coupled with all the other things that need to be done internally in a phone, there's potential for selling an imaging ASIC (e.g. EXPEED), but others are already working that market, including Qualcom."

ederphoto
12-Jul-2013, 08:57
C'mon man, you have to do better than that. 5 years later Nikon says they might have a smart phone in another 5 years. Your prediction implied the demise of Nikon & Canon if they did not have a camera phone "soon". So 5 years later Nikon remains very profitable and a growth company, and Canon is cranking out cinematic DSR's. Neither has a smart phone, and there's a rumor that Nikon might make a camera phone in another 5 years as a growth product (not to save their ass). Any dufus could predict that either company might get into the market. But that's not what you predicted.

Here is what Thom Hogan (the go to guy for all things Nikon) had the say about this:
"We're probably talking about the need for a ten billion dollar plus business here. Something that would replace 10m Coolpix or more. I just don't see them being able to do that in smartphones.

I agree that Nikon hasn't a chance against Apple and Samsung at the moment, and both those companies shouldn't be counted out when it comes to camera abilities, either. The problem for Nikon selling a cell phone would be the same problem that even Samsung had with the Android-based cameras: you're at the whims of the service providers. You don't have strong control over pricing, you don't control data plans, the service providers want to put their software on your device, and much more.

The good news for Nikon is that smartphones are going bigger sensor (as large as 1/2.3" in the coming iterations) and more complex. Coupled with all the other things that need to be done internally in a phone, there's potential for selling an imaging ASIC (e.g. EXPEED), but others are already working that market, including Qualcom."



In a few years nobody will buy those point and shoot anymore and Nikon knows it and i know it .Don't believe every report you see about market profit they may in fact be market manipulation ! Nikon has two ways to go to survive in the future ; one is going smartphone route where people can take and share their pictures instantly online with friends and news media( i thought about having a regular SLR capable of uploading pictures online through a online service provider but it's not going to work ) .The other is to reduce significantly the price of DSLRs to reach otherwise unreachable buyers .Nikon may have increased their profit a bit in past few years not by increased number of sold products but by increase in the sales of higher priced items , but if you look at the increase in population worldwide the numbers don't add up and nikon can't survive by selling cameras to professional photographers alone .I see a tough road ahead for Nikon and Canon on the DSLR markets .Nikon should have started on the smartcameraphone long ago , now they have a lot of patents to avoid making it a very expensive and hard market to get into and they need it to survive .
The clocking is ticking and if they don't get into this market really fast ... get ready , because your bubble will burst ,unless , they survive until most patents expire ! This is for the DSLR market only , their lenses will survive and possibly other image products .But wait what about wedding photographers ? They will loose their job to videographers ! Why pay a photographer and a videographer when you can get the pictures from the video ??? No yet , but soon !!!!!
I wrote this here on 7/12/2013 let's see if i know what i'm talking about .Say whatever you want to say and think whatever you want to think . It will come .

Greg Miller
12-Jul-2013, 13:27
Well duh - technology changes and companies change with it. But what does that have to do with your prediction from 5 years ago. That still doesn't support your prediction from 5 years ago. I don't see Nikon or Canon cell phones out there. Nor any coming out soon. Feel free to keep making new predictions though. The compact camera market and DSLR markets are 2 totally different markets so I don't see that DSLR sales being affected by that. Perhaps some DSLR users will migrate to ILC cameras. Wedding photographers don't get by with slow shutter speed, just like sports photographers won't. And who has the time to wade through 1,000s of video frames to look for a still? Videographers stay fairly stationary during the ceremony while still photographers move about quite a bit. And both use very different apertures. So there are plenty of problems with that prediction too. Tell us what you mean by soon. 1 year, 5 years, 10 years,...? All those wedding photographers need to know so they can find a new job.

SR95RACER
13-Jul-2013, 17:54
Based on what i see from the link Randy provided , Nikon is in big trouble !!! So now we have a smartphone with 41 megapixels for endless cropping and a small file for online sharing , all in one package ready to upload .How is Nikon going to compete with that ?They are far,far behind on the camera phone market. I wonder if they have secured any patents , if not , is going to be almost impossible to break through on this market unless they buy Nokia or other cell phone company .The Nikon Coolpix line of cameras will be extinguished by this phone and if Apple comes up with a similar phone, Nikon and Canon can kiss half of its profits good buy for good .I wonder what service provider will be carrying this phone .I hope Verizon does .I like my Iphone , but it is a shame you can't control shutter speed , but most SLR setting are present in this phone . I never waited in line for anything but for this phone ... i guess i will be camping in front of a store for a while .



http://conversations.nokia.com/2013/07/11/nokia-lumia-1020-the-smartphone-camera-revolution-begins/

SR95RACER
13-Jul-2013, 18:18
Well duh - technology changes and companies change with it. But what does that have to do with your prediction from 5 years ago. That still doesn't support your prediction from 5 years ago. I don't see Nikon or Canon cell phones out there. Nor any coming out soon. Feel free to keep making new predictions though. The compact camera market and DSLR markets are 2 totally different markets so I don't see that DSLR sales being affected by that. Perhaps some DSLR users will migrate to ILC cameras. Wedding photographers don't get by with slow shutter speed, just like sports photographers won't. And who has the time to wade through 1,000s of video frames to look for a still? Videographers stay fairly stationary during the ceremony while still photographers move about quite a bit. And both use very different apertures. So there are plenty of problems with that prediction too. Tell us what you mean by soon. 1 year, 5 years, 10 years,...? All those wedding photographers need to know so they can find a new job.

Maybe the reason you don't see Nikon and Canon Phones out there is because of this thing called patents ! Nikon and canon will have hard time finding a way to build a new phone without breaking patents .They can get many licenses from some of the big manufactures , but to be honest , i don't think
they will open the door for more competition .Nikon and Canon should have started on this long ago .Too late now i guess .In my opinion , they are kicking themselves for not getting into this field 10 years ago .Like Ed said , they can add some features of phones to Digital cameras , like having a D40 that can upload to facebook right after the shot . But i would choose the Nokia phone over those cheap cameras anytime , all i need now is a phone that can light a fire ! I camp a lot .
It looks like the phone will be around $800,00 carried by AT&T .

Greg Miller
13-Jul-2013, 22:39
Based on what i see from the link Randy provided , Nikon is in big trouble !!! So now we have a smartphone with 41 megapixels for endless cropping and a small file for online sharing , all in one package ready to upload .How is Nikon going to compete with that ?They are far,far behind on the camera phone market. I wonder if they have secured any patents , if not , is going to be almost impossible to break through on this market unless they buy Nokia or other cell phone company .The Nikon Coolpix line of cameras will be extinguished by this phone and if Apple comes up with a similar phone, Nikon and Canon can kiss half of its profits good buy for good .I wonder what service provider will be carrying this phone .I hope Verizon does .I like my Iphone , but it is a shame you can't control shutter speed , but most SLR setting are present in this phone . I never waited in line for anything but for this phone ... i guess i will be camping in front of a store for a while .

The Nikon D800 with "only" 36 megapixels requires the absolute best Nikkor lenses to reap the benefits. Who exactly has been asking for a 41MP camera phone? Snapshooters wouldn't know what to do with the ginourmous files that are generated. Pros need other features such a easy control over aperture, shutter speed, ISO, white balance, lots of CF or SD storage (where's the SD slot on that phone???), fast processor (where's the Expeed or DIGIC processor in that phone? not to mention that a good processor will suck the life out of a tiny phone battery)... Such a tiny sensor will not allow for limited depth of field such as with a f1.4 lens on a full frame sensor. Let's see how many sales actually happen with this. Probably some suckers will buy it just to say they have it.

People here need to start looking at what % of sales & profit compact cameras make up for Nikon & Canon. These are very thin margin items, unlike DSLRs. And I for one see no benefit in exchanging my DLSR for a crappy little camera phone with horrible ergonomics. And I don't need my DSLR top make phone calls. DLSR & ILC buyers are a totally different market than compact camera buyers.

Greg Miller
13-Jul-2013, 22:43
Maybe the reason you don't see Nikon and Canon Phones out there is because of this thing called patents ! Nikon and canon will have hard time finding a way to build a new phone without breaking patents .They can get many licenses from some of the big manufactures , but to be honest , i don't think
they will open the door for more competition .Nikon and Canon should have started on this long ago .Too late now i guess .In my opinion , they are kicking themselves for not getting into this field 10 years ago .Like Ed said , they can add some features of phones to Digital cameras , like having a D40 that can upload to facebook right after the shot . But i would choose the Nokia phone over those cheap cameras anytime , all i need now is a phone that can light a fire ! I camp a lot .
It looks like the phone will be around $800,00 carried by AT&T .

Or perhaps they realize how tough a market phones are with tiny profit margins. BlackBerry used to own the market and now they are almost gone. Sony tried to enter the market 10 years ago and flopped. This is not a growth market. Anyone who tries to enter the market needs to steal market share from someone else. But why bother for such tiny profit margins? Being in the phone market is not the answer.

Greg Miller
13-Jul-2013, 22:51
Based on what i see from the link Randy provided , Nikon is in big trouble !!! So now we have a smartphone with 41 megapixels for endless cropping and a small file for online sharing , all in one package ready to upload .How is Nikon going to compete with that ?They are far,far behind on the camera phone market. I wonder if they have secured any patents , if not , is going to be almost impossible to break through on this market unless they buy Nokia or other cell phone company .The Nikon Coolpix line of cameras will be extinguished by this phone and if Apple comes up with a similar phone, Nikon and Canon can kiss half of its profits good buy for good .I wonder what service provider will be carrying this phone .I hope Verizon does .I like my Iphone , but it is a shame you can't control shutter speed , but most SLR setting are present in this phone . I never waited in line for anything but for this phone ... i guess i will be camping in front of a store for a while .

And. oh yeah, most D800 users have found that they must be tripod mounted in order to use all 36 megapixels. Are those Nokia users going to mount their cell phone on a tripod?

SR95RACER
14-Jul-2013, 08:03
The Nikon D800 with "only" 36 megapixels requires the absolute best Nikkor lenses to reap the benefits. Who exactly has been asking for a 41MP camera phone? Snapshooters wouldn't know what to do with the ginourmous files that are generated. Pros need other features such a easy control over aperture, shutter speed, ISO, white balance, lots of CF or SD storage (where's the SD slot on that phone???), fast processor (where's the Expeed or DIGIC processor in that phone? not to mention that a good processor will suck the life out of a tiny phone battery)... Such a tiny sensor will not allow for limited depth of field such as with a f1.4 lens on a full frame sensor. Let's see how many sales actually happen with this. Probably some suckers will buy it just to say they have it.

Did you read the specification on the phone dude ? You are in fact living in a bubble !!! Oh boy !!!

People here need to start looking at what % of sales & profit compact cameras make up for Nikon & Canon. These are very thin margin items, unlike DSLRs. And I for one see no benefit in exchanging my DLSR for a crappy little camera phone with horrible ergonomics. And I don't need my DSLR top make phone calls. DLSR & ILC buyers are a totally different market than compact camera buyers.

Greg Miller
14-Jul-2013, 08:30
Yes I did, dude. Do you really think a $300 hand-held phone will compete a $3,000 body with $2,000 glass? Most D800 owners found their technical skills weren't good enough to use the 36 megapixels at full resolution. And their mid-grade Nikkor lenses weren't good enough either. So how good do you think those Zeiss lenses are in a $300 phone? How many 41 MP shots can you get on that phones memory before it fills up? What do you do when the internal memory fills up? Getting 36 MP onto a full frame sensor was a quantum leap in technology. Do you really think 41MP on a tiny sensor is going to be decent quality? Maybe by using binning, but then you don't have 41MP. This is a consumer phone. Not a prop camera. Consumers may be happy with the phone until they realize how much storage 41 MP files take up. DSLR users are not going to replace their DSLR with this.

SR95RACER
14-Jul-2013, 11:21
To help you burst out of your bubble , here is a link to a photo taken by this phone http://press.nokia.com/wp-content/uploads/mediaplugin/photo/nokia-lumia-1020-pro-highres-4.jpg .
Being a Nikon D800 user myself with $2000.00 glass on it , i can assure you that this is pretty damn good and as far as "DSLR user are not going to replace their DSLR with it " , sorry to bring you the news but i think some will ! Just like they replaced their 8x10 for 5x7s ,their 5x7s for 4x5s ,4x5s for 6x7 , 6x7 for 35mm , their 35mm film for digital slr .History tells us a tale here ; Practical wins always !!! Just like some of us still shoot ULF film there will be some people who will swear by DSLRs and stick to it .Guess what ? Even you will have one these .Lol

Greg Miller
14-Jul-2013, 11:42
To help you burst out of your bubble , here is a link to a photo taken by this phone http://press.nokia.com/wp-content/uploads/mediaplugin/photo/nokia-lumia-1020-pro-highres-4.jpg .
Being a Nikon D800 user myself with $2000.00 glass on it , i can assure you that this is pretty damn good and as far as "DSLR user are not going to replace their DSLR with it " , sorry to bring you the news but i think some will ! Just like they replaced their 8x10 for 5x7s ,their 5x7s for 4x5s ,4x5s for 6x7 , 6x7 for 35mm , their 35mm film for digital slr .History tells us a tale here ; Practical wins always !!! Just like some of us still shoot ULF film there will be some people who will swear by DSLRs and stick to it .Guess what ? Even you will have one these .Lol

Are you seriously goi ng to compare an 8 bit jpg with a RAW file? really???

And you think you can hold a camera phone at arms length andhave the stabilit needed to get 41 MP of usable data? With $300 phone??? really???

Let's put this camera through some MTF and DXO tests, then lets talk.

Greg Miller
14-Jul-2013, 11:45
To help you burst out of your bubble , here is a link to a photo taken by this phone http://press.nokia.com/wp-content/uploads/mediaplugin/photo/nokia-lumia-1020-pro-highres-4.jpg .
Being a Nikon D800 user myself with $2000.00 glass on it , i can assure you that this is pretty damn good and as far as "DSLR user are not going to replace their DSLR with it " , sorry to bring you the news but i think some will ! Just like they replaced their 8x10 for 5x7s ,their 5x7s for 4x5s ,4x5s for 6x7 , 6x7 for 35mm , their 35mm film for digital slr .History tells us a tale here ; Practical wins always !!! Just like some of us still shoot ULF film there will be some people who will swear by DSLRs and stick to it .Guess what ? Even you will have one these .Lol

So mr. Bubble, are you the same person as ederphoto? Or just really close friends. I'm guessing you are one and the same.

Jac@stafford.net
14-Jul-2013, 13:20
So mr. Bubble, are you the same person as ederphoto? Or just really close friends. I'm guessing you are one and the same.

They each make the same punctuation errors.

Greg Miller
14-Jul-2013, 13:29
They each make the same punctuation errors.

Yep. And it is consistent. sr95racer used the same punctuation errors in this post, http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?96580-ederphoto&p=1019953#post1019953 when ederphoto was taking some heat over some sales transactions. Curious how 2 people who post so infrequently seem to appear together in the same threads, use the same jargon, and have the same uncommon punctuation. I bet a little digging by the mods would find that these 2 are the same person.

Greg Miller
14-Jul-2013, 13:39
To help you burst out of your bubble , here is a link to a photo taken by this phone http://press.nokia.com/wp-content/uploads/mediaplugin/photo/nokia-lumia-1020-pro-highres-4.jpg .
Being a Nikon D800 user myself with $2000.00 glass on it , i can assure you that this is pretty damn good and as far as "DSLR user are not going to replace their DSLR with it " , sorry to bring you the news but i think some will ! Just like they replaced their 8x10 for 5x7s ,their 5x7s for 4x5s ,4x5s for 6x7 , 6x7 for 35mm , their 35mm film for digital slr .History tells us a tale here ; Practical wins always !!! Just like some of us still shoot ULF film there will be some people who will swear by DSLRs and stick to it .Guess what ? Even you will have one these .Lol

FWIW I actually have some basis for saying most DSLR users will not switch. I have personally worked recently with over 200 avid photographers in workshops I have led and presentations I have made. Not a single DLSR user showed any interest in doing serious photographer with a phone. Some show interest in ILC cameras because they are so much lighter but still have ergonomics and quality of a DLSR. For me personally, I need to be able to change f-stop and aperture quickly and without pulling my eye from the viewer finder. I can change both almost instantly. Until they put scroll wheels on a phone )among a host of other things), a phone just isn't going to cut it.

polyglot
14-Jul-2013, 20:39
That's a really nice result for a phone, and as someone who uses a phone camera semi-regularly (the camera you have on you is the best camera), I'd love to get that quality instead of what I currently do.

However, let's not pretend it's anything like what you can achieve with an SLR with a sensor larger than a pea. It's not 41MP, it's noisy as hell despite being brightly lit (EV12), it's full of jpeg artefacts and posterisation. I'd take the results from my shitty old 12MP APS DSLR over that any day.

Jac@stafford.net
15-Jul-2013, 08:40
That's a really nice result for a phone, and as someone who uses a phone camera semi-regularly (the camera you have on you is the best camera), I'd love to get that quality instead of what I currently do.

You might find this book/project an interesting diversion. That Tree (http://thattree.net/) by Mark Hirsch.

Randy Moe
15-Jul-2013, 09:05
'That Tree' is a great series. I find myself assembling short slideshows all the time, seems 9 images makes a real nice grid on facebook.

Yesterday I got 30 year old Polaroids I shot, from my ex-wifes estate. I promptly scanned them, cleaned em up and proudly posted images I had forgotten existed.

Half the people were dead...






You might find this book/project an interesting diversion. That Tree (http://thattree.net/) by Mark Hirsch.

Randy Moe
16-Jul-2013, 09:49
Just learned something on the news. Turns out Chicago is a hotbed for urban ruins photography with cell phones. Good story by WGN here. They even use tripods!

And they proclaim they prefer stills over video for the more powerful 'statement'.

http://wgntv.com/2013/07/15/urban-explorers-give-new-life-to-old-buildings-with-help-from-instagram/

Jac@stafford.net
16-Jul-2013, 11:40
They even use tripods!

Tip of the day: iPhones which can take a picture when you press the "+" volume button can be triggered using the ear-bud volume control.

So, there you have a cable-type release!

Don't breathe here! (http://distilleryimage4.ak.instagram.com/b03ba870bef311e28a8922000a1faffc_7.jpg)
Photo credit: dannymota (http://instagram.com/dannymota#)

Randy Moe
16-Jul-2013, 11:58
Good tip Jac, even works with my iPod 4, but I don't use the thing for music, so I am going to cut up a jack and put a switch on it. Perhaps I will have a spy rig then.

I can't stand earbuds, I prefer huge over the ear headphones. But I rarely use them either, unless it is late at night and I need to appease the night sleepers.

The rumour is the next iphone will have a better camera and screen, go figure.



Tip of the day: iPhones which can take a picture when you press the "+" volume button can be triggered using the ear-bud volume control.

So, there you have a cable-type release!

Don't breathe here! (http://distilleryimage4.ak.instagram.com/b03ba870bef311e28a8922000a1faffc_7.jpg)
Photo credit: dannymota (http://instagram.com/dannymota#)

Sean Chilibeck
6-Aug-2013, 07:41
Just an update on the Chicago Sun Times and Chicago Tribune (who maintains a photo staff). The following article compares the two papers covering similar stories within Chicago.

http://www.wired.com/rawfile/2013/07/replacing-photographers-with-iphone-wielding-reporters-yields-mixed-results/?viewall=true

I'm not sure if they cherry picked the worse examples, but there is a stark difference. The two papers might also have a different reader base, where images aren't as important in one paper compared with the other.

Randy Moe
6-Aug-2013, 07:51
I live in Chicago and never buy either local paper anymore. I used to read both every day. Occasionally I buy a NYT, and at least it's a real NEWS paper. I seldom buy printed books and actually prefer digital versions. They take up less space. I do subscribe to many magazines for the pictures and ads.




Just an update on the Chicago Sun Times and Chicago Tribune (who maintains a photo staff). The following article compares the two papers covering similar stories within Chicago.

http://www.wired.com/rawfile/2013/07/replacing-photographers-with-iphone-wielding-reporters-yields-mixed-results/?viewall=true

I'm not sure if they cherry picked the worse examples, but there is a stark difference. The two papers might also have a different reader base, where images aren't as important in one paper compared with the other.

ederphoto
29-Oct-2017, 19:39
Well , it's happening . 36mp photographs from 8k video and 12k is in the works .
https://petapixel.com/2017/06/19/8k-36mp-convergence-motion-still-photography/

Randy Moe
29-Oct-2017, 20:08
This has been happening for a while.

Not sure when it became normal, but I have heard of more than a few doing it.

Why not?

I expect mainstream (pun?) direct to the brain within 10 years. They have already made blind from birth see with video cameras. Years ago.

Leszek Vogt
29-Oct-2017, 20:39
Well, the rig costs 50K and the lenses....+ set of Summilux-C lenses would be just a smidgen over 400K. Hope I din't create any heart conditions for anyone, but one could purchase 18 homes for that in Penna. Kinda like going fishing (lb/karp) and getting a 60K boat. OK, OK, maybe this makes sens for some folks.

The new Nikon D850 can do nearly the same at $3200 or so.

Les

ederphoto
29-Oct-2017, 22:12
Well, the rig costs 50K and the lenses....+ set of Summilux-C lenses would be just a smidgen over 400K. Hope I din't create any heart conditions for anyone, but one could purchase 18 homes for that in Penna. Kinda like going fishing (lb/karp) and getting a 60K boat. OK, OK, maybe this makes sens for some folks.

The new Nikon D850 can do nearly the same at $3200 or so.

Les

It won't be long before the prices drop on those cameras and off course many of us will be shooting videos for pictures . It just make sense , facilitate the capture of "the right moment " and it is the comercial way to go . We are living through a period of change . Big change . Not so much for large format but for 35mm digital . If i buy the new d850 it will be my last dslr . But i do smell a change on nikon's line up . Once still from videos arrive for all , there will be no point in producing still cameras and because dslr awkward filming grip , they will probably change the body design .It will take some time , probably within the next 10 years maybe less .
A few year ago on this same page i predicted the impact of smartphones and still from videos on the DSLR camera market . Here is one link to confirm my guesses : https://petapixel.com/2017/03/03/latest-camera-sales-chart-reveals-death-compact-camera/

JMO
30-Oct-2017, 19:17
+1 for Randy Moe - as I was tapped on the shoulder at age 62 and got to retire 3 years earlier than I had been planning, but I am lucky to (since and) now be able to indulge my LF, MF and digital photography hobby essentially full time. And I enjoy checking into this Forum daily to continue to learn, but before I do anything in the darkroom or PS on computer each day I read the New York Times that is delivered to my home (but with an appropriate adjustment for its relatively liberal editorial bias throughout). Thankfully, the NYT is still available as a daily hardcopy newspaper, and its reporting articles continue to be fairly high standard for the most part. But I understand that it, too, is under considerable financial pressure. ....


So glad to be an avid hobbyist photographer and retired.

At first I was pissed to put out to pasture early, at age 58, but now at 62, I'm more than happy just f***ing around.

I have no idea, how people work and have fun.

Randy Moe
30-Oct-2017, 19:55
Soon to be 67.

My short time goal is to view the 2024 Eclipse.

Currently working on my new darkroom.

I read the NYT online. No delivery here.

These are the good old days...

Steven Ruttenberg
30-Oct-2017, 23:24
Thank goodness no art involved in news photography.

Randy Moe
31-Oct-2017, 02:21
LOL

not art

Drew Wiley
31-Oct-2017, 15:52
A five bucks disposable cardboard camera would be good enough for newspaper work, if only it could be instantly transmitted like digital. And 400K wouldn't buy a rotted doghouse atop a toxic waste site around here. But that's about the only logical destination of our local newspapers too - straight to the dump.

Alan Gales
31-Oct-2017, 22:21
I'm afraid it won't be too long until young people will be asking, "What's a newspaper?".

Drew Wiley
1-Nov-2017, 10:04
Yep ... It's time to teach your dog to fetch the cell phone and deliver it covered with saliva instead of the daily paper.

ederphoto
1-Nov-2017, 12:24
Yep ... It's time to teach your dog to fetch the cell phone and deliver it covered with saliva instead of the daily paper.

Lol

ederphoto
1-Nov-2017, 12:28
Yep ... It's time to teach your dog to fetch the cell phone and deliver it covered with saliva instead of the daily paper.

Lol

Steven Ruttenberg
1-Nov-2017, 22:40
Let's face it, newspapers are last-century technology. It's hard to justify a prepress staff, printing staff and press, and petroleum-fueled distribution networks in these times. The daily newspaper here is getting thinner and smaller all the time. Like many here, I started my career in newspapers and respect the print media for in-depth reporting. I'm not sure where I'm going to find real news in the growing world of infotainment.

I, too, hate video clips with embedded ads, and I don't like going on-line to get news. Too much crap to wade through to get 5 seconds of information.

It all reminds of a sci-fi movie like Blade Runner. No one thinks anymore, no one creates, no intuition or inquisitive thought. It is about instant self gratification. Reading and thinking is considered archaic. Especially when it can be done faster by a computer. It do not blame sugary drinks for society becoming fat and lethargic, I blame the technology.

It is so bad my daughters so called real friends are electrons and photons that show up on twitter snapchat, etc. We no longer no how to socialize as a species so we are doomed to being controlled by the very thing we crated to help us.

So it is with photography. Easier to snap an iPhone picture and post on instagram than compose think about take develop print display etc. My photos define me and are also my legacy for my children and their children. In a sense, it is my immortality. Cannot have that with electrons.

Peter Gomena
2-Nov-2017, 08:23
My photographic legacy will be thin and soon forgotten, but I'll get my share of keepers!
171464

Zone VI 4x5, 150mm Symmar-S, FP4+, 8 yellow filter, N+1. Take that, digital!

Steven Ruttenberg
5-Nov-2017, 23:38
My photographic legacy will be thin and soon forgotten, but I'll get my share of keepers!
171464

Zone VI 4x5, 150mm Symmar-S, FP4+, 8 yellow filter, N+1. Take that, digital!

Nice. Doubt it will be forgotten.

arca andy
7-Nov-2017, 13:08
It all reminds of a sci-fi movie like Blade Runner. No one thinks anymore, no one creates, no intuition or inquisitive thought. It is about instant self gratification. Reading and thinking is considered archaic. Especially when it can be done faster by a computer. It do not blame sugary drinks for society becoming fat and lethargic, I blame the technology.

It is so bad my daughters so called real friends are electrons and photons that show up on twitter snapchat, etc. We no longer no how to socialize as a species so we are doomed to being controlled by the very thing we crated to help us.

So it is with photography. Easier to snap an iPhone picture and post on instagram than compose think about take develop print display etc. My photos define me and are also my legacy for my children and their children. In a sense, it is my immortality. Cannot have that with electrons.

After much Facebook-ing, Instagram-ing and Linkedin-ing I realised that, though I had seen beautiful countryside, amazing cameras, my friends on bicycles and work colleague's great projects, I hadn't actual experienced anything real...just pixels and digital data on my Iphone/pad...what a weird world we now live in!

bloodhoundbob
7-Nov-2017, 13:36
It all went down hill when they stopped carrying a Speed Graphic.