Freezer for Film

[gary892]

I have been looking for a small freezer to store film in and I think I found one at a garage sale, just need input for all the folks that use freezers for this purpose.

The freezer is one that is used in a store to sell ice cream. It has two sliding glass panels on the top.
One panel slides under the other to gain access to ice cream bars.

My concern in that moisture might get in when the panels are closed even though the seals look good.

Any feedback is welcome.

I might add, I am a cheap ass, and the price of $50.00 is at the top of my budget for this.


Thanks

Gary

[Tin Can]

Don't those old freezers require frequent defrosting?

Won't an old and perhaps unreliable freezer use more juice than a modern one?

As I am interested in one also, I have been looking at scratch and dent sale items, but have not yet, got very excited.

Let's see what advice we both get!



I have been looking for a small freezer to store film in and I think I found one at a garage sale, just need input for all the folks that use freezers for this purpose.

The freezer is one that is used in a store to sell ice cream. It has two sliding glass panels on the top.
One panel slides under the other to gain access to ice cream bars.

My concern in that moisture might get in when the panels are closed even though the seals look good.

Any feedback is welcome.

I might add, I am a cheap ass, and the price of $50.00 is at the top of my budget for this.


Thanks

Gary

[Rob Vinnedge]

Save your money for another month or two and buy a new, small chest freezer for around $200. They stay cold, even with the lid opened, and use very little electricity. They are also dark!

[Marc B.]

Do you have a few universities near you?
School is coming to an end, and the kids will be selling off most of their bulkier dorm items.
Dorm size refrigerators abound this time of year. Remember, it's heat...that is the enemy of film.
So, for film preservation, there's actually very little difference between frozen and...really, really cold.

Marc

[Will Frostmill]

The only thing I'd watch out for is one that automatically defrosts - heating & cooling cycles are not going to be good for your film.

[Alan Gales]

My aunt and uncle own a condominium. They also owned a condo for their daughter while she was in college. When their daughter married and moved out they were surprised how much their electric bill was for the vacant condo. The only thing using electricity was the old refrigerator.

Forget a bargain and buy something new and efficient. It will save you money in the long run because refrigerators use a lot of energy.

[gth]

Hmmm, trusting maybe thousands of $$ of film to a $50 freezer is probably not a good idea. Costco and the like usually have small freezers at $200-$300.

Lately I have also noted at home depot that they have upright freezers at some $400. Easy access to inventory and small foot print.

[photobymike]

Depending on how long you are planning on saving your film, the freezer may not be the best answer. The most important environment for film is storage without humidity changes. If you want to keep film for longer than ten years, then I would consider freezing. When film is manufactured the emulsion has a relative humidity level standard that has to be maintained. Too low and the emulsion cracks and to high it rots and excepts gasses that interact with the emulsion. There is a whole list of gases that really are quite common, if you want a list email me. Basically everything in the kitchen and the garage will effect the emulsion if the emulsion humidity gets to high. So seal your film no matter how you store it. Then the type of base is also consideration, acetate film base, emulsion cracking can occur but not so much of a problem. Estar or polyestar based film, well have you ever developed a roll of film that looks like a spring that cannot be straitened? well that means too dry or low humidity. Freezing very much can change the humidity level of the emulsion of your film emulsion, which you really want to avoid.

PS under no circumstances would i consider freezing Polaroid film. When the chemical pods freeze they expand and break thru the there container ....well its a mess.....

[Jac@stafford.net]

Some freezers do not achieve advertized low temperatures.
Look to Consumer Reports for some good information.

[Tin Can]

Good explanations.

I can't freeze my film, but I do store it at 36F.

Paper is ambient.

I have heard that cold storage is a bit of a hoax at camera stores. Like, they keep the front sales desk film chilled, but the back storage room is ambient.

I am sure nobody ships bulk film chilled, I doubt Coors beer is kept cold from factory to sales shelf. Coors used to claim that.

Not enough freezers for my expired film.


Depending on how long you are planning on saving your film, the freezer may not be the best answer. The most important environment for film is storage without humidity changes. If you want to keep film for longer than ten years, then I would consider freezing. When film is manufactured the emulsion has a relative humidity level standard that has to be maintained. Too low and the emulsion cracks and to high it rots and excepts gasses that interact with the emulsion. There is a whole list of gases that really are quite common, if you want a list email me. Basically everything in the kitchen and the garage will effect the emulsion if the emulsion humidity gets to high. So seal your film no matter how you store it. Then the type of base is also consideration, acetate film base, emulsion cracking can occur but not so much of a problem. Estar or polyestar based film, well have you ever developed a roll of film that looks like a spring that cannot be straitened? well that means too dry or low humidity. Freezing very much can change the humidity level of the emulsion of your film emulsion, which you really want to avoid.

PS under no circumstances would i consider freezing Polaroid film. When the chemical pods freeze they expand and break thru the there container ....well its a mess.....

[Corran]

Interesting discussion. Been looking for one myself, either a fridge or freezer whatever I can get my hands on that is small and cheap and not going to damage film. Stocked up now with the Fuji price increase coming and I have about 500 rolls of film and 1500 sheets...gotta get the backlog into storage soon.

[Roger Cole]

Hmmm, trusting maybe thousands of $$ of film to a $50 freezer is probably not a good idea. Costco and the like usually have small freezers at $200-$300.

Lately I have also noted at home depot that they have upright freezers at some $400. Easy access to inventory and small foot print.

And almost impossible to store large sizes of paper in. For just film, they should be fine.

[gary892]

I did not purchase the $50.00 freezer for reasons mentioned be everyone, all valid points.

So further explanation might be in order.
I already store my film and some paper in a small "dorm room" type refrigerator. It has a small foot print, which is one of the most important criteria to me.
I am looking for a freezer large enough to store my 12x20 film as I have several boxes and the "dorm room" size refrigerator does not have the interior space.

I have looked at Costco, Sears, The Home Depot and Lowe's and none of the freezers have a small enough foot print for the area I have available.

I have heard of Heir(sp) that is a top loading freezer and a small foot print, but I haven't located a local source so I can look it over.

Thanks to all that have relied and let's keep this thread open so people will continue to comment.

Gary

[Jac@stafford.net]

Gary, the product name is Haier, and they are available at very many discount stores such as Walmart, Lowes, Home Depot...

[jp]

I'm also a fan of the $200-300 NEW freezer. Much more efficient than an old one. I made a plywood daggerboard style divider for mine so I can get to things without unpacking the food.

If you don't plan to FILL it with film, add some food/steak/water as a full freezer is an efficient freezer.

[John Koehrer]

Check out moving and yard sales.
Locally we have a small business that refurbishes and sells used appliances. You may have something similar.
There's also craigslist for those inexpensive treasures.
Most of the newer units don't use freon, you could look online for the time they changed gases.
Most units will have a date of manufacture on a data plate so youc an determine what's in it.

[John Kasaian]

Old freezers cost more $$ to operate. A lot more $$.

I had a freezer conk out on me once---the boxes of film that were inside smelled horrible afterwards. The only way I could get them to stop smelling was to leave them out in (gulp) sunlight and spray them with Fabreeze (yes they were stored in zip lock bags---the boxes still stank.)

That said, new freezers don't seem to last all that long---13-16 years max for a "home use" variety freezer.
If there will still be room in that old freezer for ice cream, that would make it more attractive but if you're going to dedicate this solely for film I'd suggest investing in a new model (last years clearance deals are great for this) and keep a watchful eye on it.
And whichever freezer you end up with, fill it up! There is no sense in paying good money to freeze air.

[BarryS]

What you need is the Holiday 5 cu ft. freezer at Lowes. $169 delivered to your house.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_75729-13247-LCM050LC_0__?productId=3294832&Ntt=holiday+freezer&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNtt%3Dholiday%2Bfreezer&facetInfo=

95458

[Roger Thoms]

Just bought a whirlpool 16 cf upright manual defrost from Home Depot on sale for just over 500 usd including delivery. Almost bought a Fridgidair for about 380 usd but after reading the reviews decided that it was worth it to spend a little more. Nice to get all the film out of the kitchen freezer.

Roger

[photobymike]

The cost of a freezer over ten years vs the cost of film? i wonder if it is worth it....Its not a freezer you need.... The best temp to keep film at is just above freezing in a very sealed container...i have some tmax 8 years old that still works fine.... even my film fridge cost me at least 15 dollars a month

[Tin Can]

So it seems the best thing is to vacuum pack and keep at 34f degrees, to control humidity primarily and slow chemical action secondarily.

And freezers need defrost fairly often over years and will cycle the film through temp changes.

Perhaps a fridge maintains a more even environment over the long term.



The cost of a freezer over ten years vs the cost of film? i wonder if it is worth it....Its not a freezer you need.... The best temp to keep film at is just above freezing in a very sealed container...i have some tmax 8 years old that still works fine.... even my film fridge cost me at least 15 dollars a month

[photobymike]

Good advice moe .... If you can keep a freezer at 34 there would be no ice and it would be safe for polaroids .. I use my wife's "Seal A Meal" bag sealer.

[Tin Can]

Your advice, I was just repeating it!



Good advice moe .... If you can keep a freezer at 34 there would be no ice and it would be safe for polaroids .. I use my wife's "Seal A Meal" bag sealer.

[Roger Cole]

The cost of a freezer over ten years vs the cost of film? i wonder if it is worth it....Its not a freezer you need.... The best temp to keep film at is just above freezing in a very sealed container...i have some tmax 8 years old that still works fine.... even my film fridge cost me at least 15 dollars a month

If you're lucky enough to be able to buy film locally at a reasonable price, or to anticipate your needs well, maybe so. In my case a freezer or at least refrigerator is worthwhile. I buy all my film online and stock up. Inevitably, some I can't use before expiration. Others, well, a sad fact of modern film life is that favorite films get canceled. I didn't buy a freezer full or anything but when Kodak quit making E6 I bought 10 rolls of E100G and some other assorted Ektachrome of various date ranges online. I shot up all the E100G (my favorite transparency film after Astia went away which I missed out on stocking up on) I found 10 more rolls in date and bought it. I've shot a couple of those. They're still in date but probably won't be by the time I shoot the last of it. For 100 speed films cold stored I pretty much don't worry about it. 400 is more variable but I have some obviously outdated Agfacolor Optima 400 in 220 I bought off eBay, supposedly frozen since new and frozen by me since I got it, and it's still flawless best I can tell.

Even super speed TMZ and Delta 3200 can be extended maybe a few months, though they don't keep well at all even frozen - but the keep better than they do NOT frozen (or not cold anyway.)

[Curt]

What you need is the Holiday 5 cu ft. freezer at Lowes. $169 delivered to your house.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_75729-13247-LCM050LC_0__?productId=3294832&Ntt=holiday+freezer&pl=1¤tURL=%3FNtt%3Dholiday%2Bfreezer&facetInfo=

95458

Plus $79.00 delivery fee for the five mile trip. $169.00 picked up at the store.

[Curt]

I know Glazers in Seattle has a walk in refrigerator and I doubt they have a freezer because the film turns over. Do other outlets have these walk in type refrigerators; B&H, Adorama, Freestyle etc.?

[BarryS]

Plus $79.00 delivery fee for the five mile trip. $169.00 picked up at the store.

Nope, it was $169 delivered--no extra fees.

[Jac@stafford.net]

Correct me!

I have a huge lot of film of ASA (ISO) of 125 or less that has been in deep freeze (zero Fahrenheit) for twenty years .
So is the consensus that it is all wasted?

[Roger Thoms]

Plus $79.00 delivery fee for the five mile trip. $169.00 picked up at the store.

Curt, they show free delivery to my house, what did you do to piss off Lowes? :D

Roger

[Tin Can]

I'll be right over. You know I am kidding.

I have Ilford 5x7 Special Portrait 124 Panchromatic ASA 125 daylight of very unknown storage, I have had a year in my fridge. 2 sealed boxes of 100, sealed inside plastic bags since birth, I assume.

Since it lists ASA and DIN, I assume it is from 1972 or earlier, as the switch to ISO occurred then. From my recent research...I am warming a box up now, may as well test it out, and use it up. X-Ray film can wait. I forgot I had this.

But tonight is dedicated to my brand new old time 5X7 Champion contact printer. Never used one before. Good thing I have boxes of matching age paper... to burn.





Correct me!

I have a huge lot of film of ASA (ISO) of 125 or less that has been in deep freeze (zero Fahrenheit) for twenty years .
So is the consensus that it is all wasted?

[C_Remington]

Why buy more film than you can use? Then you don't need a freezer. Better to buy fresh film in small quantities.

[Corran]

Because price increases.

Though with the plunge silver prices took last month, it sure would be nice if film came down a tad. Never gonna happen of course.

[Tin Can]

Because most of us are hoarders, I speak only for myself...

and we worry about the 'end of film days'



Why buy more film than you can use? Then you don't need a freezer. Better to buy fresh film in small quantities.

[Roger Cole]

Because I pay almost as much shipping on a small film order as a large one. Because I never know when I'm going to need what. Because I find deals on some films, often enough some that aren't made any more (see the E100G I mentioned above.) The list goes on and on.

[Curt]

Nope, it was $169 delivered--no extra fees.

Looks like I'm being jacked up here. Input one in the cart and saw the delivery charge. I figured I'd just go out with my truck when I get one. That's the way it goes!

[Curt]

Because price increases.

Though with the plunge silver prices took last month, it sure would be nice if film came down a tad. Never gonna happen of course.

Up, up, and away$$$$$

That's why!!

[Curt]

Because most of us are hoarders, I speak only for myself...

and we worry about the 'end of film days'

I found a new diet that works. Load the frig up with film leaving little room for food!

Me hoard, ugh, yep!

[Curt]

Because I pay almost as much shipping on a small film order as a large one. Because I never know when I'm going to need what. Because I find deals on some films, often enough some that aren't made any more (see the E100G I mentioned above.) The list goes on and on.

Thus is a problem for needing a steady flow of anything. As soon as I place an order I realize I've forgotten something. With shipping a dollar item can cost $12.00 for shipping. Right up to the big ticket when shipping is discounted or free. It better to get a larger order than several smaller ones.

[Tin Can]

I pay for it, but I love Amazon Prime.

B&H often has free shipping.

Soon we will be paying TAX!

My accountant made me pay 5 years back, Use Tax, last year...



Thus is a problem for needing a steady flow of anything. As soon as I place an order I realize I've forgotten something. With shipping a dollar item can cost $12.00 for shipping. Right up to the big ticket when shipping is discounted or free. It better to get a larger order than several smaller ones.

[Curt]

Curt, they show free delivery to my house, what did you do to piss off Lowes? :D

Roger

I didn't buy a garage door opener from them? Maybe it was the "I love Home Depot" bumper sticker on my truck! Last time I was down there I was looking for a 1/4 20 die, common during the last hundred years, the agent told me Lowe's isn't a hardware store, it's a HOME CENTER! ...and... He goes to Ace Hardware!!! Sounds like something a Walmart associate would have said.

Who knows really. I found the chink in their armor. Lets see, I live in Everett Washington, maybe I should order a freezer from a Lowe's in Portland Oregon!

I order metal from a Seattle metal company. They cut it to order for under a dollar and it doesn't add much. I usually get it oversized at a stock size and cut it down myself. The killer is the just under ten percent tax and fourteen dollar shipping for the 30 miles. For the time and gas for my guzzler Dodge Ram it's probably worth it. Except the two day wait but really.

The truck is great on those hills in San Francisco though! Been there with it several times. Gee I need to get back down there! There's a shot I need to take on the south end of the Golden Gate near the base. I'm thinking 4x10 carbon!

After trying to put a photo shot of the fifth try at Lowe's I finally did it. That site is screwed!

[Curt]

I pay for it, but I love Amazon Prime.

B&H often has free shipping.

Soon we will be paying TAX!

My accountant made me pay 5 years back, Use Tax, last year...

Yep, I wrote a no message to to my senators but good luck there. They're on the feedbag and would never give up the opportunity to get more money for more junk spending. Is life over yet?

[Tin Can]

Soon enough, don' rush things.

I am amazed every time I wake to a new day.



Yep, I wrote a no message to to my senators but good luck there. They're on the feedbag and would never give up the opportunity to get more money for more junk spending. Is life over yet?

[Curt]

I typed in Amazon Prime and got my account info but the cart I have in amazon at $33 is $55 with shipping!!!!!!

WTF is going on here? Do I need a new identity? It did say if I add $18 more worth of goods I might be eligible for free shipping.

Amazon had a 50¢ part from a German company that carries $56.00 shipping. Go figure.

[Curt]

Soon enough, don' rush things.

I am amazed every time I wake to a new day.

Where's the "Like" button? ;-)

[C_Remington]

Because price increases.

Though with the plunge silver prices took last month, it sure would be nice if film came down a tad. Never gonna happen of course.

That's a bad reason. It doesn't go up that much. If u can afford a free er full at today's prices, surely, u can afford a couple boxes at new prices. Plus it's always fresh and u don't need a freezer. Been there, did that. I used to have a six foot cheat freezer FULL of paper and film. Doesn't make sense.

[Roger Cole]

Suit yourself. I never really know what I'm going to need and like to have at least a small stock of films I use on hand. If I didn't "buy ahead" sometimes I'd use it up ahead of schedule and get caught short, other times I wouldn't use it up and it would expire. I prefer to buy a bit ahead and keep it cold stored. Now I don't buy a "freezer full" of stuff that's readily available. I don't use that much and that would be silly. But I prefer to keep a decent supply of materials I use, and I prefer to cold store them.

[photobymike]

Because price increases.

Though with the plunge silver prices took last month, it sure would be nice if film came down a tad. Never gonna happen of course.

The cost of the freezer and the cost of the film make it not cost effective.... but like most photographers i am also a hoarder ...groan ....I think the best thing we can do is use the film and use lots of it so companies will produce more .... lets make it profitable for them to do so.....I hoard the weird film that i will never see again.... like Efke done and gone......

I am amazed every time I wake to a new day. more good advice from Moe!!!

pray for the people in Moore Oklahoma ... that tornado was nasty with 90 some people dead.....

[Corran]

That's a bad reason. It doesn't go up that much. If u can afford a free er full at today's prices, surely, u can afford a couple boxes at new prices. Plus it's always fresh and u don't need a freezer. Been there, did that. I used to have a six foot cheat freezer FULL of paper and film. Doesn't make sense.

Okay, so I should just pass on an opportunity to save 20%? That's what the increase is coming up from Fuji.
Doesn't matter what I can afford. Today it's $100 for a month of film, tomorrow it's $120, so I'm going to save some cash.

As for the film companies...well I'm not well enough off to subsidize them. I'll buy when it's convenient and economical for me. Half the film I've shot has been expired and purchased for much less than retail on eBay or here on the forums. Sorry, tough luck Kodak/Fuji, quit gouging for your film and I'll be happy to buy it fresh (aimed more at Kodak frankly).

[Drew Wiley]

The inflationary increase of film in my freezer has paid for that freezer many times over, and that's just in the past few years! Freezers aren't all that expensive to
begin with, as long as you don't get an old inefficient one that drives your electricity bill wild.

[C_Remington]

Do you have a freezer full of food u buy on sale?? Do you have a store room full of lightbulbs, cat food etc????

[Corran]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

[Curt]

I wish I had a freezer full of Efke 25. Hindsight is always 20/20.

[Roger Cole]

Do you have a freezer full of food u buy on sale?? Do you have a store room full of lightbulbs, cat food etc????

Actually I DO have a freezer pretty much full of food, at least the freezer section of my refrigerator, and much, though not all, was bought on sale. And my parents, who farm, have TWO large chest freezers, both completely full of food they grew and, in the case of meat, food they stock up on when it's on sale. It doesn't go bad - they eat enough to keep the stock rotating. That's how I grew up and it wasn't until well into adulthood that I realized everyone didn't live this way. It makes perfect sense to me.

Of course they also can lots of food and that's stocked up in the basement, right there with the wood and coal stove. In that part of the country power outages of a day or two are not uncommon in the winter. We never, ever, lacked for a good hot meal when that happened.

In my case now it's more a case of stocking up on anything I use regularly so I have it when I want it without a grocery store run, the same principle I use for my film.

Next question.

[Drew Wiley]

Well if my freezer wasn't full of film and printing paper my wife would buy an extra holiday turkey or two and put it in there (and has), or several big bags of frozen
shrimp. Obviously color paper takes up more space than film itself. Also certain chemical like glycin do better in cold storage. And given the state of social security
and the stock market ... don't you receive those official letters from the Social Security administration yet: "Prior to your retirement we recommend you bury cans
of cat food in the back yard and simultaneously acquire a taste for roots, grubs, wild berries, and ants". And if you can't stand the taste of cat food, you can always use it to lure cats and eat them. ... (yeah, I'll have to apologize for that remark the minute I face eight of them on the porch demanding their dinner promptly
tonite ... humans exist to serve cats, at least in their mind ...)

[Curt]

Well if my freezer wasn't full of film and printing paper my wife would buy an extra holiday turkey or two and put it in there (and has), or several big bags of frozen
shrimp. Obviously color paper takes up more space than film itself. Also certain chemical like glycin do better in cold storage. And given the state of social security
and the stock market ... don't you receive those official letters from the Social Security administration yet: "Prior to your retirement we recommend you bury cans
of cat food in the back yard and simultaneously acquire a taste for roots, grubs, wild berries, and ants". And if you can't stand the taste of cat food, you can always use it to lure cats and eat them. ... (yeah, I'll have to apologize for that remark the minute I face eight of them on the porch demanding their dinner promptly
tonite ... humans exist to serve cats, at least in their mind ...)

That's perfect, they also said "Hobo Chile" really means "Hobo Chilly", what you'll become when collecting.

[jp]

Do you have a freezer full of food u buy on sale?? Do you have a store room full of lightbulbs, cat food etc????

We get food on sale for the freezer and meat once a year from a farm. In addition to multiple years of film stockpiled, I've got ammo (not frozen). Selling my stockpile of that would really pay off now, but I'm not interested. I've also got enough lightbulbs for several years as they were on sale and I'll have enough to last me till LED bulbs are perfected and affordable. I've also got 3 tanks of heating oil; I used to buy low in seasonal fluctuations of that and make out well; but it's uniformly year round expensive now, so I have added solar hot water to reduce oil use. I'm all about reducing trips to the store and protecting myself from price fluctuations and availability problems. It's thinking ahead. I've got city friends who stop at the store every day to have what they need at home to live on. I've got island friends who get ashore once a month to get their basic supplies. We all have different ideas of 'thinking ahead' and priorities.

[Curt]

We get food on sale for the freezer and meat once a year from a farm. In addition to multiple years of film stockpiled, I've got ammo (not frozen). Selling my stockpile of that would really pay off now, but I'm not interested. I've also got enough lightbulbs for several years as they were on sale and I'll have enough to last me till LED bulbs are perfected and affordable. I've also got 3 tanks of heating oil; I used to buy low in seasonal fluctuations of that and make out well; but it's uniformly year round expensive now, so I have added solar hot water to reduce oil use. I'm all about reducing trips to the store and protecting myself from price fluctuations and availability problems. It's thinking ahead. I've got city friends who stop at the store every day to have what they need at home to live on. I've got island friends who get ashore once a month to get their basic supplies. We all have different ideas of 'thinking ahead' and priorities.

Does your club accept new members? It does make sense, we're told that all the time, get a kit together, yours is just bigger.

[photobymike]

A friend of mine is "prepare" for the end of the world has a freezer full of meat and supplies for the end of the world. Until i pointed out that if it gets that bad, probably there will be no electricity if what he fears happens..... so hundred pounds of meat spoils ... will not take long here in Florida...He went out and got a generator 1800 Coleman.... did not have the heart to tell him that the generator is to small to run his freezer..... and the gas would be worth more than gold at the end of the world....

I love film, but not enough to spend the kind of money that a freezer would take. I do however have a small office fridge i found on the road side

[Tin Can]

I am such an idiot. I live in a small Chicago storefront, but I have 2 emergency generators. What if one breaks? I could run for a long time on the fuel in the van. lol

The little Honda is good for camping and photo location lighting, it is extremely quiet. I once had it running in a bar and they never knew it. I was showing it to a lady who borrowed it for something. The smokers emitted more CO2.



A friend of mine is "prepare" for the end of the world has a freezer full of meat and supplies for the end of the world. Until i pointed out that if it gets that bad, probably there will be no electricity if what he fears happens..... so hundred pounds of meat spoils ... will not take long here in Florida...He went out and got a generator 1800 Coleman.... did not have the heart to tell him that the generator is to small to run his freezer..... and the gas would be worth more than gold at the end of the world....

I love film, but not enough to spend the kind of money that a freezer would take. I do however have a small office fridge i found on the road side

[Larry Gebhardt]

A friend of mine is "prepare" for the end of the world has a freezer full of meat and supplies for the end of the world. Until i pointed out that if it gets that bad, probably there will be no electricity if what he fears happens..... so hundred pounds of meat spoils ... will not take long here in Florida...He went out and got a generator 1800 Coleman.... did not have the heart to tell him that the generator is to small to run his freezer..... and the gas would be worth more than gold at the end of the world....

I love film, but not enough to spend the kind of money that a freezer would take. I do however have a small office fridge i found on the road side

I have one of those 1800 Watt Coleman generators. It has enough power to run my pellet stove, film chest freezer, and food upright freezer without complaint. If I add the sump pump in the voltage drops when it kicks on, but it will keep running. So when I need the need the sump also I unplug the film freezer (it takes days to fully thaw). The nice thing about the small generators is how efficient they are with gas. A 5 gallon can will get me several days.

Still, when the end of the world happens I would want canned or dried food. And I doubt my film will be the first thing on my mind.

[Tin Can]

Dry food, I keep updating my can stock. Italian tomato paste cans always burst...

The thing is, I'm in downtown Chicago, WTSHTF, I am going to break into the corner bar and drink myself to death.

There will be no escape.


I have one of those 1800 Watt Coleman generators. It has enough power to run my pellet stove, film chest freezer, and food upright freezer without complaint. If I add the sump pump in the voltage drops when it kicks on, but it will keep running. So when I need the need the sump also I unplug the film freezer (it takes days to fully thaw). The nice thing about the small generators is how efficient they are with gas. A 5 gallon can will get me several days.

Still, when the end of the world happens I would want canned or dried food. And I doubt my film will be the first thing on my mind.

[Roger Cole]

Buying a small freezer or fridge to keep some film stock ahead and store nearly expired or expired film is a far cry from trying to stock up for the downfall of civilization - apples and oranges.

As for the point brought up by several people about defrost cycles causing temperature fluctuations, so what? I've never heard any hint that this is particularly damaging for film and in fact mine would get cycled anyway because I take more film than I expect to ever use out of the fridge for each trip out with the cameras, overnight trips especially, don't end up using most of it and back it goes. It doesn't seem to hurt a thing. A constant cold temperature would be better but only because of the tiny amount less time spent warm. If anything I'd think the temperature cycles would be more damaging to food which could spoil, and that doesn't seem to happen.

[Tin Can]

But we need to use that film for the permanent record of our destruction...

My freezer ruins my food, with the defrost cycles.


Buying a small freezer or fridge to keep some film stock ahead and store nearly expired or expired film is a far cry from trying to stock up for the downfall of civilization - apples and oranges.

As for the point brought up by several people about defrost cycles causing temperature fluctuations, so what? I've never heard any hint that this is particularly damaging for film and in fact mine would get cycled anyway because I take more film than I expect to ever use out of the fridge for each trip out with the cameras, overnight trips especially, don't end up using most of it and back it goes. It doesn't seem to hurt a thing. A constant cold temperature would be better but only because of the tiny amount less time spent warm. If anything I'd think the temperature cycles would be more damaging to food which could spoil, and that doesn't seem to happen.

[Roger Cole]

My folks have two refrigerators with freezers plus two large chest freezers. Not one of them has ever ruined food with defrost cycles. Same for my refrigerator freezer. Shrug - I don't get it. But in any case film is not food. It won't be overgrown with bacteria and turn rancid if it "thaws" for a while, it will just age more quickly than while it's cold.

[Tin Can]

All I know is, it is what it is.

I'll just turn the air-conditioning up, or is that down...


My folks have two refrigerators with freezers plus two large chest freezers. Not one of them has ever ruined food with defrost cycles. Same for my refrigerator freezer. Shrug - I don't get it. But in any case film is not food. It won't be overgrown with bacteria and turn rancid if it "thaws" for a while, it will just age more quickly than while it's cold.

[Colin Robertson]

I live on an Island. Every single thing I need (film, paper, chemistry, storage sleeves) I source through the internet. First, delivery costs- it really pays to plan ahead and buy a few things at once. many suppliers will have a 'free delivery on orders over . . .' deal. So it pays not to get caught out needing one bottle of developer, or one box of film.
Also, since I can't walk into a shop and buy film on impulse, I have to act as my own camera store. Right now in my freezer I'm carrying-
5x4 FP4, HP5 and Velvia 50
120 PanF, HP5, Delta3200, SFX200, Velvia 100
35mm PanF, FP4, HP5, Velvia 100, and assorted colour neg.
Why? Because I shoot for pleasure, and I like to be able to look out the window and decide what format and what film suits my mood, and then be able to shoot it.
However, I keep my quantities small, so nothing gets too old (cosmic rays age even frozen film). Also, it's good for Ilford and Fuji if we all buy regularly. Lastly, I'm human, therefore fickle and fallible. At one point I was just gobbling up 35mm HP5, but currently I'm shooting far more 5x4
Suppose I'd spent a fortune laying down a big cache of 35mm? Right now all it would be doing is growing old, and I'd have tied up money which could be buying fresh paper and chemistry. A freezer allows me to manage my stock and maintain freshness, but I'm not (yet) preparing for the Zombie apocalypse.

Hmm . . . probably HP5 in the Minolta for that Gig. Luckily, I have some.

[Drew Wiley]

Heck. Eskimos have been known to eat frozen mammoth meat. And all kinds of people will stuff an elk or deer or butchered cow into a freezer. That's not called
hoarding. What's the big deal with keeping on hand a few years worth of film? Supply has always fluctuated, and this is a simple inexpensive way to buffer things
out without competing with the kitchen fridge. But Randy, it's not CO2 you should be worried about, but carbon monoxide. Enough people die each winter from
running generators or even Coleman lanterns indoors.

[Tin Can]

Yes Drew, I know, CO, and I could care less how much anyone piles up, as you can't take it with you.

In the 60's I woke up next to a dead man in the next van, catalytic heater...he was never cold again.

Sooner or later all hoards are redistributed, even money, whatever that is.

Collectors are simply renters, keeping things clean for the next needy soul.

Some, here, think, having more than one camera is too many.

Nobody ever mentions all the stuff in trash piles, basements and pyramids.



Heck. Eskimos have been known to eat frozen mammoth meat. And all kinds of people will stuff an elk or deer or butchered cow into a freezer. That's not called
hoarding. What's the big deal with keeping on hand a few years worth of film? Supply has always fluctuated, and this is a simple inexpensive way to buffer things
out without competing with the kitchen fridge. But Randy, it's not CO2 you should be worried about, but carbon monoxide. Enough people die each winter from
running generators or even Coleman lanterns indoors.

[Otto Seaman]

If you want to support the film manufacturers so that they keep making film, it is better to buy smaller qualities steadily rather than hoarding....

[Roger Cole]

I take care of my needs. The film manufacturers can take care of theirs. And, for that matter, I order film several times a year. It's hard to see how that's going to matter versus a bunch of tiny purchases spaced out every 2-3 weeks, except for saving me a lot of shipping (usually, absent a free shipping deal.)

[photobymike]

I order my color film for the year during the cooler days of winter in Florida.... i have had film delivered and the temp inside the box was over 120 degrees ....

"Collectors are simply renters, keeping things clean for the next needy soul." i am laughing my ass off.... and there is alot of ass there.... Moe you are just a fountain of wisdom....

[Drew Wiley]

Some of us have been participating in group orders of custom-cut film too. So you can't just walk down to your corner Seven Eleven and expect to casually up a
box of large sheet film in the cooler where they sell ice cream bars. Keeping some extra film on hand just makes common sense. Or maybe some opportunistic buy
will come up and you'll want to take advantage of it. Or maybe, like me, you need to keep color paper on hand too. And yes... even in my mild climate I order film
in the cooler months due to conditions in transit. Lots of reasons to own a cooler.

[Corran]

That's an interesting point. I got some expensive color film from a member on this forum, and never received a tracking number. Didn't know when it was shipped. It was shipped in a small enough box to just fit in my mailbox, and ended up being delivered on a day that I was working all the way till the evening, and so it sat from about 11am till night time when I got the mail in 90+ degree weather (in a black mailbox to boot). I wonder if it's ruined.

[redrockcoulee]

Do you have a freezer full of food u buy on sale?? Do you have a store room full of lightbulbs, cat food etc????

Yes I do have a freezer full of food. Some times we buy a half of beef and when we do it is from my brother-in-law so though it is not dirt cheap I know how it was raised. My wife stocks up on a certain bread whenever she is in Calgary as she likes it so much better than what is available locally and she does not have time to make the 6 hour round trip to buy it fresh. I have some film in my freezer that was given to me such as a box of 4X5 Technical Pan 50 sheets that I plan on not using for a year or two yet, having shot other boxes of it I know it is good. For me to buy film I need to either drive that 3 hour round trip or order it on line or by phone. If I buy from the States where some such as Acros 120 is a lot cheaper there is about a $60 dollar brokerage fee it seems regardless of the amount so yes it does pay to buy it and keep it and there is more room in the freezer than the fridge.

No cat food stocked up but have a cat in the freezer awaiting a visit to the farm so she can be buried with her fellow cats and dogs that passed away from old age these last couple of years.

I had a 50 year old freezer that died and replaced with two smaller ones, a chest and an upright as together they hold no more than the monster I got from my grandfather. There are so many uses for freezers besides keeping film in them. Do not get a self defrosting one. When you have to defrost put all your frozen items in coolers or boxes in a cool area and put blankets or sleeping bags over them and your iflm will not thaw out, or do it in the winter time.

I also have a tub full of chemicals as it is easier to buy when I am in Calgary then to have them shipped or in the case of HC110 perhaps having to drive up to get them. If I lived a few blocks from the Camerastore I might think differently but the 3 hours each way makes one think of storing stuff :)

[cowanw]

A number of people have mentioned about the inadvisability of a frost free freezer. I understand the walls of the freezer cycle, but I have never seen the frozen lemonade go above freezing, not my film. Is there an authoritative source for the opinion about not using a frost free freezer? And yes, I have seen freezer burn on meat, but I am not concerned about freezer burn of film.

[cowanw]

Since I am a thread ender;
This would be neat.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/06/01/morgue-fridge-sale.html

[Tin Can]

Bidding...



Since I am a thread ender;
This would be neat.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/06/01/morgue-fridge-sale.html

[Tin Can]

At exactly 10 years and one month my Frigidaire refrigerator just broke. I0 year warranty!

Lost a bunch of meat and my film needs a new home asap.

[C_Remington]

At exactly 10 years and one month my Frigidaire refrigerator just broke. I0 year warranty!

Lost a bunch of meat and my film needs a new home asap.

Ha! Exactly why, just one reason why keeping an inventory is a BAD idea!!!!!

[Tin Can]

Almost all of it is free expired film.

My fresh film is fine.

I have been using hot storage 1971 AZO that to me looks great!

I'm pissed about my food. Setting up my van camping fridge right now.


Ha! Exactly why, just one reason why keeping an inventory is a BAD idea!!!!!

[Marc B.]

Lost a bunch of meat and my film needs a new home asap.
In unexpected or short term emergencies, remember your local custom butchers or meat lockers.
Most meat lockers have weekly, as well as monthly rates.

Marc

[Tin Can]

My starving artist neighbor had an empty freezer. He will enjoy the meat. I never eat his cooking.

He was not so good with storing film, he is one source of my hot stored expired film...




In unexpected or short term emergencies, remember your local custom butchers or meat lockers.
Most meat lockers have weekly, as well as monthly rates.

Marc