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pherold
10-May-2013, 11:46
Well, I'm doing my part to spread the word about large format. I wrote an article giving a general overview of scanning in a recent newsletter and mentioned this site in the body of the article.
http://www2.chromix.com/colorsmarts/smartNote.cxsa?snid=50223

Here's just the article on the ColorWIki (This format is a little more readable):
http://www.colorwiki.com/wiki/Scanner_Profiling

Not intended to be a real high level treatment, but more of an overview of the steps involved and the options available for handling color in scanning. We did not have anything like this in our library of articles. I'm wondering if any of you know of articles that are similar in scope - sort of a general overview?

Jim Andrada
14-May-2013, 10:23
Hi Pat

I do a lot of transparency scanning (Fuji Velvia 50 &100, Fuji Provia 100/400) but have never done any profiling of the Epson 750. I do profile my displays and printer, but always wondered why I could never find a way to profile the scanner

so let me ask a few basic questions if you don't mind.

1) Considering that the 750 is not a really high end scanner, do you think there would be benefit to profiling it?

2) What scanning software supports scanner profiles (ie Silverfast/Vuescan/Epson Scan, all of the above, none of the above, etc?)

3 Do you know which Fuji Velvia the HTC targets use, and will it be "close enough" to use for all the Fuji transparency films?

Thanks much

pherold
14-May-2013, 13:19
Hi Jim,

If you're already using the scanner to scan your transparencies, my opinion is that you might as well profile your scanner so that your color will be more accurate once you bring it into Photoshop. The main question to decide is if the additional color accuracy will be worth the cost of getting a profile made.

When you talk about software that supports scanning, anything that allows you to assign a profile to an image will support scanner profiles. The usual procedure is to scan your image, bring it into something like PS, apply the profile to the image, and everything snaps into place, color-wise. Creating the profile to begin with is another story. There you'd need to have Silverfast, or i1Profiler - or an older software like i1Match, or MonacoProfiler. There are probably others also, maybe others can chime in there.

The Hutchcolor Fuji's are Fujichrome. Here's the blurb from their site (http://www.hutchcolor.com/HCT_overview.htm):
Either Fujichrome or Ektachrome HCT targets reproduce Agfachrome™, Ektachrome and Kodachrome originals quite accurately on Heidelberg (Hell) 3000-series and Fuji (Crosfield) Drum scanners. But other scanners like the ICG drum scanner and most CCD desktop scanners require custom Ektachrome or Fujichrome profiles for precise color matching. If only one emulsion is chosen for general use, pick the one on the film type you scan most often.

Light Guru
14-May-2013, 14:04
The main question to decide is if the additional color accuracy will be worth the cost of getting a profile made.

That's the important question. I work at a historical library and we calibrate all of our scanners. But my personal work is I consider art so emotion is more important then super accurate color so I don't calibrate my scanner at home.

Preston
14-May-2013, 17:01
Jim,

Take a look at Wolf Faust's IT8 transparency targets. He has targets for many chrome film types, including Astia and Velvia.

I use VueScan Pro. If you are using it, you can profile your scanner from within the program. I used it to calibrate my Microtek 1800f and the results are much, much better than it was in it's un-calibrated state. In my opinion, calibrating your scanner will make your life easier if color accuracy is important to you. Here's a few things to know if you're VueScan...

1. Create your Profile and note where it is stored on your computer. Also, you'll need to know the location of the appropriate IT8 or the Q60 file.
2. In Scanner Color Space, select ICC Profile.
3. In the Scanner ICC Profile box, navigate to your profile
4. In the Scanner ICC Description box, type a descriptive name for your profile
5. In the IT8 data box, navigate to your Q60 file.

To make sure all is well, close and then restart VueScan.

That should do it. Note: It is critical that you have the correct IT8 or Q60 file for your calibration transparency.


I used Silverfast a long time ago, and yes, you can profile your scanner from within the program.

--P

mcfactor
8-Jul-2013, 08:37
Is it possible to create a target for negative film? For example, shoot a portra 160 neg of a color checker passport, develop it, scan it, then create a custom profile for it. I dont shoot a lot of chrome, but I would like to get accurate color.

-Noah

Bruce Watson
8-Jul-2013, 08:56
Is it possible to create a target for negative film? For example, shoot a portra 160 neg of a color checker passport, develop it, scan it, then create a custom profile for it. I don't shoot a lot of chrome, but I would like to get accurate color.

Doesn't work that way. What I remember from my days drum scanning is that an ICC profile for a scanner can't be done with negative films. Why? The density range is much larger for negatives (part of why negative films have way more dynamic range), and the orange color correction mask is actually a variable. It's that orange mask that gives negative films their higher color accuracy over transparency films.

In my experience I can get greater color accuracy (and in particular, greater relative color accuracy) using negative films, even if I can't ICC profile my scanner for negative films. I scanned so much negative film that tranny film was interestingly problematic for me on my drum scanner, and not the other way around. ;)

As use of transparency films continues to decline relative to negative films, even as the use of all films declines, and the scanning of films declines as well, scanning, and in particular ICC profiling of scanners, becomes increasingly neglected. Just the way it is.

Bodyslam
8-Jul-2013, 12:22
In my experience I can get greater color accuracy (and in particular, greater relative color accuracy) using negative films, even if I can't ICC profile my scanner for negative films. I scanned so much negative film that tranny film was interestingly problematic for me on my drum scanner, and not the other way around. ;)
.

Hey Bruce, could you elaborate on the workflow you wound up with, in order to get this color accuracy from negative film? I'm sure I'm not alone in struggling to get the best out of color negs consistently.

Thanks,

Bruce Watson
9-Jul-2013, 06:54
Hey Bruce, could you elaborate on the workflow you wound up with, in order to get this color accuracy from negative film? I'm sure I'm not alone in struggling to get the best out of color negs consistently.

Nope. It wouldn't matter to you anyway unless we had exactly the same equipment and setup. Which is exceedingly unlikely.

What I did was spend years learning the in and outs, the strengths and weaknesses, of my scanner's hardware and software. Along the way I learned how to interpret what I was seeing in the monitor on pre-scans, and how to make adjustments to give me the file I wanted -- the one that would let me make the print I wanted with minimal photoshopping.

You'll have to do the same -- learn your scanner's hardware / software, which adjustments to make to get the results you want, and how to make them. It's no different from learning how to use a view camera, then putting that knowledge to use. Each photograph you make is different, and you have to set up the camera for each photograph individually because each photograph has different requirements.

It's exactly the same for scanning, for exactly the same reasons. Ain't no shortcuts that I've found. There's no substitute for experience.

Tyler Boley
9-Jul-2013, 12:27
I actually came up with a color managed workflow for color neg, and my drum scanner.. all this work was done with it-
http://tylerboley.com/beverlysgarden/beverlys-garden-gallery/
But it had flaws, was convoluted, and nothing that could be recommended for use by others. I'd be embarrassed to describe my Rube method actually.
I was quite astonishing to see such accurate color pop onto my monitor though..
Bruce is right, you really do have to hone and trust your monitor, editing knowledge, and instincts for color neg.
Tyler

mcfactor
11-Jul-2013, 13:39
Thanks for the responses, I guess I have my work cut out for myself, I just bought a scanmate 4000, wish me luck

-Noah