Making a 50'x20' Backdrop Stand

[KyledeC]

Hello all,

I'm in the beginning stages of planning out a photo project. It's going to require a huge backdrop that I can relatively easily transport and set up in obscure locations. I'm thinking the backdrop will need to be about 50' tall and maybe 20' wide. So my question is does anybody have any suggestions on materials to use to make something like this? I'm assuming some type of metal poles and then probably a cable system coming from the top corners to support it from tipping over.

Also, suggestions on making the actual backdrop would be greatly appreciated as well. Could I find any material in that size that would be white. I'm assuming not, so what's the biggest I can find to make the least amount of seams.

Thank you all for your suggestions and ideas!

[Mark Woods]

Look at the Matthews equipment website and you'll find a lot of rigging gear. Not sure why you want it 50' tall and 20' wide. Are you shooting 8"x20" vertical? The shot should be tailored to your format. Think about that.

[KyledeC]

Thank you Mark! I will definitely check out the site. And I need the backdrop that large because of the subject matter that is going to be in front of it. I'm most likely going to be shooting it with 35mm, but possibly 8x10 if I can get everything figured out i time.

[vinny]

Something that size needs requires box truss, a crew of several qualified grips, and a crane if used outdoors as it becomes a sail. Imagine if it fell over onto someone.
You can't afford to do this safely, trust me. The largest frame with 1 1/4" pipe you can safely do in no wind is 20x20. Sorry, I'm not going to recommend a dangerous solution.
Hanging it off the side of a building would be a safer option but not very practical I'm sure.

[Mark Woods]

1 1/2" is the standard in So Cal for frames. A 20'x20' is at least a 6 man grip crew. Again, look at your format. If you're shooting vertically with a 35mm camera, I get it. If you have any horizontal thoughts, you're not going to be in the right format, i.e., you're going top be shooting 6x9 on a 2.5:1 [I]Vertical[I] format. Think about your acquisition format before thinking about your back drop.

[vinny]

Mark, not to nitpick but it's actually 1 1/4" ID and the frames are sold that way. I've seen the wind take a few down.

[C. D. Keth]

Please listen to Vinny. He knows precisely what he's talking about. Much smaller grip frames become unwieldy in the slightest wind.

Consider a common engineering constant that says that a 100mph wind causes .17psi of pressure on a flat object. You have 144,000 square inches of area which comes out to a ton and a quarter of force pulling on a 50 foot lever in a light 10mph breeze.

Can't you maybe source some blank building sides in your location cities?

[KyledeC]

Mark, I would be shooting vertically for every composition. And say I was able to adjust the project to accomodate say a 20' tall by 10' wide backdrop. Would that be more probable?

Thank you guys again for helping.

[vinny]

12x20 is a standard rag/frame size. 10x20 isn't but they'll sell you anything you want. Standing up a frame that size (depending on the weight of the rag) will be awkward for the inexperienced. You'll need some "mombo combo" stands ($600+ each), ford axles, and some heavy tie lines, and a grip that can teach you and your friends how to do this safely. Any wind and you'll have to take it down or it will take itself down. Schedule 40 aluminum pipe is sold at any metal supplier and can be had for about $40 per 20ft length. The rag/corners/ears will be the $$ part.
3 places to look for the gear-
Modern studio equipment
The rag place
American grip equipment

Yes, the white "ist" material is ultrabounce. Black on one side, whit on the other. Several seams and no way around that. Plenty of other white fabrics exist but most are translucent which may be what u want if you need it blown out to hide the seams.

[Jody_S]

If you're looking to do this on the cheap, electrical tubing is sold in 10' lengths and there are basic, cheap fittings to hold it together. Galvanized steel with white metal couplings and connectors, you would have to fabricate corners to clamp your rag. Total cost in parts for 10x20 (just the tubing and fittings) should be around $100. I would also be very concerned about safety, as 10x20 is larger than the mainsail on my boat.

[KOG]

Rent a blimp? I'm not real serious about it as a solution, but what you're asking for will require some serious thought and equipment.

Kevin

[Mark Barendt]

Rent a blimp? I'm not real serious about it as a solution, but what you're asking for will require some serious thought and equipment.

Kevin

I think you are on the right track Helium balloons would be much easier to use and transport than building and hauling around a 50 foot tall frame and much more tolerant of wind gusts too.

I actually have one of these http://72.167.42.95/photocart/index.php?do=photocart&viewGallery=10032#image=100422 in 16x30 I think, might even consider selling it.

[rdenney]

Electrical rigid metal conduit is not designed for structural applications. The trusses that are sometimes used for lighting are also not designed for structures like these (they are usually made up of sections of Rohn antenna towers).

But I'm not sure you have to go to the expense of a movie-grip crew, if you are not in place where their union controls such activities through local laws (and that is something you must check). Most construction riggers could erect scaffolding in those dimensions, even with the sail on it, though they will want to rig it down with guy wires. Scaffolding is modular and can be made as deep as necessary to control the overturning moment from wind, but doing so requires more floor space.

Rick "bring your checkbook" Denney

[Ari]

I once rented a motion picture studio for a morning for about $350; included was a 30 ft-high cyclorama.

[C. D. Keth]

I once rented a motion picture studio for a morning for about $350; included was a 30 ft-high cyclorama.

Yup, the second you decide this can be done indoors or against the side of a building it instantly becomes not only doable but simple.

[dperez]

Cha-ching!

[ataim]

Photoshop?

[jayabbas]

Doing shoots with backgrounds outside for many years and must say that 50 foot by 20 foot would be for the extreme professional hollywood rigging cartel. I limit my size outdoors to 8 ft wide and 10 ft tall. This is still serious sailing even with the slightest of breezes if not rigged adequately. All stands are major overkill and weighted unbelievably. I also use what is called the "Claw" and "Dandy line" or in some places known as "Bull tape". Claw is a 3 way pound in the ground aircraft tiedown anchor with a forged eye hook in the middle. # 12 inch barn nails driven in the ground secure needed grip. See Claw.com. Dandy line is 2500 lb test flat nylon tape used in the electric cable industry for pulling cable thru conduit in large buildings. All weighted stands are tethered with this stuff ( top and bottom) and background is tethered judiciously to stand also. Everything is tied to "Claws" on the ground. Wind is an absolute superior adversary and taming her is incredibly tough; that is if you want a "Sail" to stay in one place. I also carry good liability insurance. Think long and hard about that main sail you are contemplating.