Epson V700 large format banding issue (without film holder)

[thicktheo]

I've been getting orange banding on all of my color 4x5 negatives, which I scan without the film holder, only using a piece of ANR glass to press it down to the scanner glass. When I scan them with the film holder, everything comes out fine (but I lose the edges). This problem does not arise when scanning b/w 4x5 negatives with the same method. I am using Silverfast but the same problem showed up on EpsonScan too.

Today I did a bit of testing and took some snapshots.

This is what the scanned image looks like when I'm using "Transparency":
91176

Then I switch to "Transparency Full Area" and the line disappears:
91177

And if I rotate the image, the "ghosting" on the corners is reduced (I can see the logic in this):
91178

But if I move the negative to another part of the scanner, there's the line again:
91179


I don't have a black mask on the rest of the scanner area. I have been scanning b/w 4x5 negatives for a long time and have not had any issues like this. I understand about curling corners and the "ghosting" image that is captured, but that huge orange banding that occurs on specific parts of the scanner is beyond me, as well as the fact that the banding disappears if I use the film holder.

I have read all about V700's calibration area, I've checked it and it is as clean as it can be. I've also spent the last days reading everything I could find online, but I've yet to find a solution.

Any thoughts?

How do you scan your 4x5 color film and how have you dealt with similar issues?

[Tony Evans]

Are you using the Film Area Guide and selecting "With Film Area Guide"? Also ensure a gap at the hinge end.

[Gem Singer]

Color film has a shiny surface on both the base and the emulsion sides.

Therefore, a shiny surface is pressing against the shiny surface of the scanner glass.

B&W film has a shiny base side and a dull emulsion side.

I believe you are getting Newton Rings when two shiny surfaces meet.

[thicktheo]

Are you using the Film Area Guide and selecting "With Film Area Guide"? Also ensure a gap at the hinge end.

I know about the calibration area. I am also using Film Area Guide, along with the "Transparency (full area)" selection in Silverfast.




Color film has a shiny surface on both the base and the emulsion sides.

Therefore, a shiny surface is pressing against the shiny surface of the scanner glass.

B&W film has a shiny base side and a dull emulsion side.

I believe you are getting Newton Rings when two shiny surfaces meet.

I don't get Newton Rings. I get orange banding. Maybe I can use two ANR glasses (top, bottom) and sandwich the film between them?

[Doug Fisher]

As Tony indicated, you are getting calibration issues (e.g. the line) when you are not using the film area guide (which has the correct masking at the top of its shape to help with calibration).

Doug

[thicktheo]

As Tony indicated, you are getting calibration issues (e.g. the line) when you are not using the film area guide (which has the correct masking at the top of its shape to help with calibration).

Doug

I understand this, but the last screenshot is using the film area guide mask, along with the proper selection in Silverfast. I still get a line on the side of the scanner.

On the upside, I just scanned a polaroid negative (dull side towards scanner glass, shiny side pressed by ANR glass and there is no banding present. So this issue is totally connected to color 4x5 negs (both shiny surfaces) scanned without the film holder.

How are other people scanning their large format color negs? is taping and distancing (or using the betterscanning film holder) the only solution?

[Light Guru]

Just for kicks try scanning with the epson software and NOT using silverfast. Perhaps it is an issue with the silverfast software.

[thicktheo]

Just for kicks try scanning with the epson software and NOT using silverfast. Perhaps it is an issue with the silverfast software.

Tried it. Same thing.

[SergeiR]

calibration. Either something dirty stuck in calibration bit or you got to clean CCD array itself (cleaning out other dust from inside of scanner too)

[photobymike]

Try a new computer cable. I had the same problem with a firewire cable on a Sprintscan 120. Get one with ferrite wrap at both ends. If you are using Firewire switch to USB cable....Sometimes a cheap firewire card or cheap can cause "noise" internally from the computer.

[thicktheo]

I hope I don't have to dig in the CCD array. I'll try a new USB cable, didn't think of that one.

However, this problem only comes up with 4x5 color negs when using the full film area. I have no such problems when using the film holders, nor when scanning b/w 4x5 film straight on the scanner glass. What do you make of that?

[Gem Singer]

As I previously said, "shiny surface of the film pressed against shiny surface of the glass" is probably the cause of the problem.

Film holders lift the shiny surface of the film above the shiny surface of the scanner glass.

[thicktheo]

As I previously said, "shiny surface of the film pressed against shiny surface of the glass" is probably the cause of the problem.

Film holders lift the shiny surface of the film above the shiny surface of the scanner glass.

I noted your words, will buy a second ANR glass tomorrow and see what happens when you sandwich the film between the two ANR surfaces. :)

[SergeiR]

*facpalm* forgot about cable! that could be cable too, Mike is right.

[SergeiR]

I hope I don't have to dig in the CCD array. I'll try a new USB cable, didn't think of that one.

However, this problem only comes up with 4x5 color negs when using the full film area. I have no such problems when using the film holders, nor when scanning b/w 4x5 film straight on the scanner glass. What do you make of that?

b&w scanned slightly differently. Try to scan them using selected channels. If strip isnt there still on one of 3.. well.. Its not dust (its actually very easy to clean, btw) on array. Leaves calibration issue.
There is easy way to deal with it ,without going much into digging around. If stripes are on same sections always - you can simply build LCC profile from scanning gray bit of paper and then apply that LLC calibration to scanned image.. Funky colours and stripes will be taken out automatically ;)

[Light Guru]

I noted your words, will buy a second ANR glass tomorrow and see what happens when you sandwich the film between the two ANR surfaces. :)

try it with the 4x5 holder that it came with first.

[thicktheo]

try it with the 4x5 holder that it came with first.

I did. Here it is:
91206

As you can see, it's a perfect scan.

Using the holders, everything is fine. I don't think it's a scanner issue, in the past two hours I have scanned two medium format films with the film holders and a 3 1/4 x 4 1/4" polaroid negative sandwiched between the scanner glass and a piece of ANR glass, and nothing shows up. When I try to scan a color 4x5 negative straight on the scanner glass, everything goes wrong.





b&w scanned slightly differently. Try to scan them using selected channels. If strip isnt there still on one of 3.. well.. Its not dust (its actually very easy to clean, btw) on array. Leaves calibration issue.
There is easy way to deal with it ,without going much into digging around. If stripes are on same sections always - you can simply build LCC profile from scanning gray bit of paper and then apply that LLC calibration to scanned image.. Funky colours and stripes will be taken out automatically ;)

I lost you somewhere on the LCC calibration front, but this sounds interesting. ;)

[Hans Berkhout]

I experienced banding, scanning with the V750, neg. on the glass, no holder: it disappeared after I updated to the latest driver.

[SergeiR]

I lost you somewhere on the LCC calibration front, but this sounds interesting. ;)

In simpler words :)

If you get neutral gray card, and scan it it at whatever condition you scan other stuff - you can later use that file be "subtracted" from scan - correcting color / dust/ light issue (add as new layer in desired mode to scanned layer in photoshop)

Its similar (while a bit oversimplified) to what LCC profiles for camera/lenses are in Capture One raw processor are used for (originally).