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Jim Andrada
3-Mar-2013, 22:16
I finally got fed up with trying to get 120 film to mount in the Epson holders, so I got some of the Kami fluid and gave it a shot using the Epson wet mounting unit.

Worked like a charm. I'll give it a try tomorrow with a 5 x 7 and see how it goes.

Mamiya RB ProSD with 140mm macro lens and a #1 extension tube, Provia (Sorry for the miniature format but the first wet mounting try worked so well I had to report.)

However, regardless of format I think it gives a good idea of what the 750 can do.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8514/8527342196_23203f1538.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/89514126@N05/8527342196/)
Barrel Printed 3 3 13 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/89514126@N05/8527342196/) by Kirigakuresaizoh (http://www.flickr.com/people/89514126@N05/), on Flickr

O heck, one more while I'm at it. This one was focus stacked

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8369/8526219101_23587123fa.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/89514126@N05/8526219101/)
Focus Stacked Printable (http://www.flickr.com/photos/89514126@N05/8526219101/) by Kirigakuresaizoh (http://www.flickr.com/people/89514126@N05/), on Flickr

Peter Gomena
4-Mar-2013, 00:16
Thanks for posting - I'm going to have to give this a try. The Epson holders for 120 film are fairly awful in terms of film flatness.

Jim Andrada
4-Mar-2013, 01:01
It turns out that IF you can somehow against all odds get the film flat, the sharpness is pretty good. But any curvature in the film makes it a nightmare. The wet mounting process is quicker. I might try the Better Scanning unit, but so far the scans with the Epson are pretty good. Maybe I have the only scanner that focuses where Epson thinks it does!!!

StoneNYC
4-Mar-2013, 01:05
Hmm do you have any experience with the betterscanning holders?

I've never done wet mount but I've FINALLY gotten what I think is the perfect scanning height and always good flatness with the betterscanning holders but wondered if you might know if the wet mount is worth any additional increase in detail.

I've also been able to figure out a good height for the other OEM Epson holders (which for my version is no feet at all).

So I'm fairly happy now, but I still would consider more effort if the wet mount were THAT MUCH better.

Thanks.

Jim Andrada
4-Mar-2013, 01:42
I have a betterscanning set but haven't gotten around to using it for some reason. Not sure wet mounting would give better sharpness, but I think it would eliminate a lot of dust/ scratch/ etc issues. Now that I've started down this road I plan to try out quite a number of things. Biggest problem i face is that my real job has me on the road 30% to 50% of the time.

StoneNYC
4-Mar-2013, 05:02
I have a betterscanning set but haven't gotten around to using it for some reason. Not sure wet mounting would give better sharpness, but I think it would eliminate a lot of dust/ scratch/ etc issues. Now that I've started down this road I plan to try out quite a number of things. Biggest problem i face is that my real job has me on the road 30% to 50% of the time.

Good, so bring lots of film! :)

Jim Andrada
4-Mar-2013, 11:21
Actually I GET lots of film when I go to Japan. Fuji still makes stuff they don't import to the US any more.

SpeedGraphicMan
4-Mar-2013, 13:45
You will find that you get almost zero dust marks or scratches in the scan when you "wet-gate" scan like that!

Tony Evans
4-Mar-2013, 15:56
Going from Epson Holder to BSH dry and then to BSH Wet, I got continued improvement, with the "wet" stepup giving better (apparent) micro-contrast.

Jim Andrada
4-Mar-2013, 16:31
Next step will be to dig out the BSH holder and try it, but so far I've been pretty impressed with the results using the Epson wet mount kit. I also noticed a lack of dust and scratches etc compared to dry mounting.

I think having the fluid filling any space between film and glass would help with contrast by eliminating reflections at the film/air interface.

The Aztek kit I got included a couple of sample scans and the sharpest was with the film wet mounted directly to the scanner glass (which Epson clearly warns against doing)

Nathan Potter
4-Mar-2013, 20:31
Next step will be to dig out the BSH holder and try it, but so far I've been pretty impressed with the results using the Epson wet mount kit. I also noticed a lack of dust and scratches etc compared to dry mounting.

I think having the fluid filling any space between film and glass would help with contrast by eliminating reflections at the film/air interface.

The Aztek kit I got included a couple of sample scans and the sharpest was with the film wet mounted directly to the scanner glass (which Epson clearly warns against doing)

Wet mounting as you surmise does improve the contrast in the scanned image. The improvement comes about through index matching the film to the glass. Gelatin has an index of around 1.6 or so while the glass on the Epson platen (if soda lime) has an index of about 1.5. (If the platen is a borosilicate glass , low expansion, it is lower by a bit, say 1.47). Using a naptha based solvent of index about 1.58 provides a good index match thru the three components, which is a hell of a lot better than using air, (index 1.0) by dry mounting. The improvement in resolution using wet mounting seems rather negligible to me excepting of course, gains made in planarity from poor holders.

Two ancillary advantages to wet mounting are a reduction in defect density and the elimination of Newton rings from the Ám level air gaps between emulsion and glass.
If the wet mount indexes are closely enough matched you don't need anti newton glass.
Some types of anti newton glass can contribute "waviness" in the scanned image.

I use the wet mount stuff that Aztek sells. I assume it has an index around 1.5.

Nate Potter, Austin TX.

Jim Andrada
4-Mar-2013, 23:12
I'm using the Aztek material as well - Kami fluid, etc. I was speculating that it is a bit of impedance matching - minimizing internal reflections at air/film/glass interfaces etc