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Fred Gunnerson
6-May-2004, 14:29
Any advice as to the best focusing cloth to be used in high winds? Any work arounds? Thanks in advance...

tim atherton
6-May-2004, 14:35
something like this is good http://www.quietworks.com/FRAMES_FILES/BJ_NEW_HOME_FRAME_.htm

tim atherton
6-May-2004, 14:36
or there is a giuy on ebqays sells some as well (or just make your own...)

Gem Singer
6-May-2004, 15:24
Hi Fred,

A way of working around the problem is to use a rigid monocular or binocular viewer over your ground glass viewing screen. There are several nice ones available from Cambo, Toyo, etc. Even a folding focusing hood will work, if you can rig one up to fit your camera.

The obvious solution is to shoot early in the morning, before the wind comes up, or late in the evening after the wind has died down. Not always possible, however.

One thing to avoid is the use of weighted edges and/or corners on a darkcloth. Many horror stories about broken viewing screens and eye damage from darkcloth weights flying around in the wind.

Andrew O'Neill
6-May-2004, 15:29
Wind can drive you m-m-m-mad sometimes. After composing and focusing under my BTZS hood, I found that the best way is then to wrap the entire camera in a big old darkcloth and tying off the corners snug under the bottom of camera bed. This helps keep the bellows from going this way and that way and...

Tim Curry
6-May-2004, 15:33
I used a samll quantity of bb's for weight in my darkcloth's hem and have had not problems at this point from wind. I don't bother to shoot when it is too windy, so this has not caused a problem. They are loose inside, so it is not like a larger weight which is concentrated in a corner. Also, I didn't cut in square corners, but used a radius for the hem so it would hang evenly across the bottom without the "flaps" which occur from hard corners.

neil poulsen
6-May-2004, 23:33
Take a look at a BTZS focusing hood sold at The View Camera Store. I just bought one used at a swap meet. See the following site:

http://www.viewcamerastore.com/product_info.php?cPath=99&products_id=32

You sort of one end 'round the back end of the view camera and you stick your head in and look through the other end. Wind won't be a concern. It looks a little different. From inside, I have a clear and close look at the view camera.

QT Luong
7-May-2004, 00:00
There is also a new product called the "Black Jacket" that seems promising, and goes beyond the BTZS excellent cloth, providing sleeves: see quietworks.com

Scott Walton
7-May-2004, 06:27
As stated above, weighted cloths aren't the brightest idea, they tend to flop around and knock you in the head... I had velcro strips sewed into my cloth and it works great... that and a Bright Screen helps too.

RichSBV
7-May-2004, 14:37
I recently shot out in a field with a "good wind". I wouldn't have called it a 'high' wind but there were a few times I grabbed the tripod with worry.

Up until that day, I was going to buy the Harrison dark cloth. I liked the idea of the reflective silver and being water proof. It's easy to get caught in the rain... And it's made out of a very light material.

On this windy shoot, I made the mistake of bringing about the thinnest and lightest dark cloth you could imagine. It's some synthetic and may have been velvet at some point in it's life. I keep it because it folds up so small & light that it's good for travelling. I never used it in the wind before...

It was worthless. I could hold it to the camera no problem, but it was so light that no attempt at holding around me worked...

So, when I got home, I quickly ordered the calumet cotton dark cloth in the black & white, double cloth design with NO weights. It's a nice heavy cotton. So it's not water proof... I haven't used it in a "good wind" yet, but I guarantee it will be better than my light silky one even though it doesn't quite fold up into that nice small package... And velcro & spring clips are easy to add... I'm happy with it. And I bought the 4x5 size, for an 8x10 camera. they sell BIG cloths...

Anyway, the only point here is that a light material is worse than a heavy material in a wind in my experience. And the tubes & jackets that some people like, I would really hate. I wear a hat & glasses, generally like to smoke a cigar, etc, and would really hate to have to stick my head into a tube to focus my camera. Plus the advatage to a standard dark cloth is that after focusing, you flip it back over the camera to cover the entire unit up and guaranteed no light leaks or flagging/drapping cloth...

I may change my mind yet again, but right now I'll stay with a standard, heavy material, white/black, cotton (natural), un-weighted, dark cloth... ANd the price wasn't so bad either!

Anthony Guidice
8-May-2004, 06:45
Try our focusing cloth. It's heavy enough to stand up to wind, without feeling too "weighty". There are no weights in the corners that can swing around and break a ground glass. It will repel water. I think it will work for anyone in large format.

http://www.fineartphotosupply.com/focusingclothpage2.htm

CXC
9-May-2004, 11:12
For 4x5, I have started using a t-shirt, as recommended recently on this board. The neck fits snug enough over the ground glass, it will hang there, and then just stick your head in, with the waist over your shoulders. For me it works faster than either a horseblanket or a fitted (BTZS-style) dark cloth.

What you want is the smallest workable cloth, so that you minimize your exposure to the wind.

Don't forget that the cloth is not the only thing flapping in the wind -- so is the camera. If you are struggling with the cloth, be sure to shoot at fast shutter speeds.

Bob._3483
28-May-2004, 07:43
Best accessory I ever bought was a Cambo rotating monocular viewer for my Gandolfi Variant (same ground glass holder) - you need a fresnel too, even with longish lenses, to reduce the hotspot. No more of that stuffy head-under-a-horse-blanket feeling - my head under the open sky, the wind rustling my hair, lungs full of fresh unsullied air, my girlfriend by my side, singing: "I'm a lumberjack and I'm OK, I sleep all night and I "... erm... sorry... got a bit carried away there..... but it really is SO much more comfortable!

It's very light, though a bit bulky, and I only need the loupe if there is detail I want to check critical focus on with a lot of movements (rare for me) - otherwise I can focus easily through the viewer's magnifying eyepiece.

A lot more expensive than a cloth, but also a lot cheaper than the larger binocular viewers and well worth considering if your camera has a similar accessory available, especially if wind is a recurring problem (insert your own joke there...).

Cheers,

Keith S. Walklet
1-Jun-2004, 18:52
I caught this post and would be happy to offer an explanation (on-line or off-line) regarding the advantage of sleeves and an adjustable elastic neck when dealing with the wind, but as the manufacturer of the above-mentioned BLACKJACKET(TM), I defer to the whims of the management.

Though to Rich's comment, I admit that working with a lit cigar would create some unforseen challenges.

BTW, Tim and QT, thanks for the mention.

Keith

RichSBV
1-Jun-2004, 21:46
Keith, ;-)

Okay, I don't always "go under" with a lit cigar, but I won't put one out if things synch...

And I'll even give you a plug, of sorts. When I was searching for a new focusing cloth, I saw the "horse blankets" and two inovations. One was basically a tube with elastic that went around the back of the camera. Interesting idea, but where do the hands go?

The other was more of a reversed t-shirt/jacket. Elastic around the camera, and sleeves for the hands. _That_ was interesting and seemed very useable. It almost got me...

Unfortunately, I not only am hampered by the cigar, but also am never without a hat. And hats have problems with elastic tubes...

But you _almost_ got me! ;-) If it wasn't for the hat, I'd give one a try! I do like the design!

Keith S. Walklet
2-Jun-2004, 10:08
Rich,

>> Unfortunately, I not only am hampered by the cigar, but also am never without a hat. And hats have problems with elastic tubes... <<

As twenty-year member of the follicaly-challenged population, I sympathize with your hat situation, though it has been my experience that a hat is an advantage in almost all working conditions.

I am rarely seen in public without some sort of lid--an Indiana Jones-style wool felt number in the winter and a white, canvas, floatable, Dorfman Pacific with a vented cap and extra-wide brim for the warmer climes. In my early photo years, it was a baseball cap, though the sides of my face and the back of my neck suffered. But it was those early years, using a BTZS tube that I first devised a solution to work in windy conditions.

I'd rotate the ball cap so the bill was on the windward side to keep the fabric from blowing up against my face and across the ground glass. A bigger hat with a broad brim on all sides made rotating the hat unnecessary. Much later, I concluded that adding sleeves to the "tube" concept would permits one to hold the fabric at bay on the windward side with an entire arm functioning like a tent pole.

My own experience with the BTZS is that the opening for one's head (the non-Velcroed) portion, is a smaller aperture than my own concept (11 inches vs. 29 inches) owing to the difference in design. The BTZS is a narrower tube and more of an "elbow" of fabric than my design. I found that the extra fabric of my concept drapes easily over my shoulders, thus eliminating the need for a smaller opening, making inserting and removing one's head more like just throwing a horseblanket over it.

For most people the challenge in windy conditions is two-fold: 1. Keeping the cloth on the camera while focusing/framing. (I favor adjustable elastic) 2. Keeping the cloth out of the way while focusing/framing. (I favor sleeves)

Noting the previous mentions about minimizing the surface area exposed to the wind and selecting a fabric with some heft, I agree. A lighter weight material will have increased "flap factor" (a tendancy to vibrate more vigorously in the wind). But, if a heavier fabric is used, one must cart around that additional weight even when it isn't windy. For comparison sake, if one thinks of the qualities in a good backpacking tent, they include: lightweight with a rigid frame that is able to withstand high winds.

Bottom line after all this puffery, is that the most important thing to consider is, what works for you.

BTW, on a recent trip to the Bruneau Canyon (where a mild day would be 20mph sustained winds), Charlie Cramer passed along a tip he'd recently picked up from Joseph Holmes. It seems that Joe puts a little more tension on his Graflex back when working with QuikLoad/ReadyLoad holders on windy days. He uses one of those tiny bungies hooked on the front edge, right side, of the rear standard, wrapped around the Graflex back and hooked on the the front edge, left side, of the rear standard. This prevents light leaks that might occur when the wind blows on the paper film holder that sits out there like a main sail while one waits for a lull to make the exposure. Seems to make sense to me.

Keith

RichSBV
2-Jun-2004, 20:20
Keith,

I wish I would have talked to you before I bought my latest "horse blanket"! We'll see how things work out this Summer and you may yet hook me as a customer ;-)

And thanks for that bungee idea! My one 8x10 has rather weak springs. I was starting the background thought processes of doing something about it without being able to replace the 80 year old things. I never even thought of just using a bungee on it, and I've even got them! Although, it does sound like a marketable item! Just find the right length and tension for 4x5, 8x10, etc. And then come up with better end hooks that will fit a camera body but not damage it... Now that you could sell to me right now! ;-)

RichSBV
2-Jun-2004, 20:31
By the way, I wear a cowboy hat... Deffinitely like the wide rim! ;-)

And the reason I'm back. I wanted to take another look at the Blackjacket. The link above gave me a "page not found" error. So I did a search. The link that comes up gives me the same error...

But just going to http://www.quietworks.com/ works for me and I can get to the BlackJacket page. So it's there, but for some odd reason the above link doesn't work here... Just thought I'd let people know in case they have a similar problem...

Keith S. Walklet
2-Jun-2004, 23:00
Rich,

Thanks for the head's up on the above link. The reason it won't work is that I completely reorganized the site yesterday to add the HYBRID model line which debuted at the View Camera Conference in Monterey. I created new folders and moved lots of files around so it is no wonder that it couldn't find the page anymore.

As for the horseblanket, some folks find it work just fine. Charlie, for instance, is fond of his. But when the wind blows, I find I have enough to worry about without battling my equipment. So much of creating meaningful images is about being to relax and concentrate on one's surroundings rather than wrestling with unwieldy gear.

BTW, I can only imagine what a "photo bungie" would cost in comparison to regular bungies!